Midnightmare Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I am loving it! Expecting £150 for the full hit though. At least there should be some sort of BB rewlz for those already with a Chaos Knight. And the Lord of Skulls!! That is much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K0rtmer Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Yeah, it's certainly good looking and well done. I like it a lot. But, on a second look, I'm not actually as hyped as I was initially. I'll reserve final judgement until I see better pictures and perhaps the model painted. But at the moment it doesn't look exactly ... inspired.I agree with Aasfresser: I think I've seen conversions that I liked better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaeron Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Now I was under the impression that Forge World rules were now fully useable with 40k and no longer an "ask permission" situation.Glad I wasn't the only one! Like I said, page 6 in IA13 suggests this is totally the case too. Hopefully, definitive clarity will come - but I'm pretty confident no one could argue with it now, and may leave it up to individual tournaments to decide on what they feel is appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron_Within Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I love the look of the Lord of Skulls, that is a Chaos Knight Right there. The actually Chaos Knight, while I'm happy they're done one, it looks rather "Meh" to me, the conversions I've seen done on here are far far better than this. In terms of rules, if the basic knight is comparable to the basic Imperial Knight (without formations etc.) I'll be happy tbh, most of the time I don't see Knight formations where I'm from and where there are Knights, a couple of evil counterparts wouldn't go amiss :) I'm happy, but I'd rather have the LoS version Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I'm happy we're finally (apparently) going to get rules for a Chaos Knight. Not into the "spikes and teeth" design of FW Chaos engines, but the cost of FW resin and my preference for plastic has always meant I was going to convert a loyalist kit anyway. Super curious about the rules, and also the fact that FW has seen fit to give the blood-mobile legs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 This is GOOD news and BAD news for Chaos. Allow me to elaborate: GOOD: an official model for a Chaos Knight Titan Battle Brothers with Chaos Space Marines, Chaos Daemons and Lost&Damned confirmed Paladin/Errant setup + a Chaos weapon mount BAD: Forge World which means no GW Chaos Knights a premium price + shipment cost + import fee means that we pay once again 20% more for "less" rules, playable when we buy a new IA book or a major expansion, the Imperials got their rules in a WD FW so far did not publish formations. A Baronial Court or a Tripartite/Adamantine Lance still rules the 40k world FW is still banned/restricted/conditioned in the majority of tournaments And more. In short this is more bad news for Chaos. Our wallets will weep, we still would have to "ask for permission" and once again we are put into the corner as a "niche army" which is justified by a FW investment and not a GW official one. Am I happy by the model? Yes I am bitter? Yes And I still know not the rules nor the cost and neither the support. But this is not the good news I was hoping for. I hate to say it, but I have to agree with this. I've never been denied when asking to field a unit from FW, but it is different when its a GW unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The decision to ban Forge World is actually down to tournament organisers and not GW/ Forge World rules. In fact they have abandoned marking unit entries in their IA books starting with the latest Vraks update as effectively their books are now a compilation of datasheets and they now state troop, elite, Lord of War, etc. Best bet would be to question the TO as to why they still ban them. Especially if they allow Unbound lists and units which have essentially the same stats as ones in GW codex books (ie, the forthcoming Chaos Knight here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexington Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 I'm honestly at a loss to understand why anyone would want to play in a tournament that allowed Imperial Knights, but wouldn't do the same for what looks to be a Chaos equivalent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Because it is the rules themselves which are often disliked by the majority of the players. Especially among the "old guard" or the "grognards" as I call the people with a curriculum similar to mine, FW is still a big taboo and with due reason. It is only in the past two or three years that their units are passable as balanced (though here GW took the stick of unbalance) and thus have this stigma on them. FW makes great models but it is so that often is the case that people are not that happy when you field them against them. When you are in for a tough fight against someone on a tournament ladder and with but a word you are perfectly in your right to decline them the access to a Sicaran, Reaper Platforms and other FW goodies, well then you are, I dare say, stupid if you allow it. When comes to points there are no friends, or so have I learned in all these years. As I act often as arbiter there is another problem, publications. FW keeps the .pdf rules as for everything else you have the IA and the Campaign books. Many people buy the model and present copied rules which on many tournaments cannot be checked for rare is the group which has all the recent IA and books in the pristine form. So there is this problem for the judges and for the players who play against FW units that it is hard to check many things and you act on the premise of trust, and we all know that this should never be a premise in a competitive scene. It also brings other problems ranging from non-standard bases and stands (Chaos flyers for example) and all those minutae which really allow a person to be a "bitch" when comes to ruling in their favor against a FW fielding adversary. I have been there and seen many things and I believe we all know that it is far from a perfect setup with FW models and rules. Too many interpretations, too few rules and rule compilations and the lack of them in electronic form makes for a hell of a problem for a tournament organizer. That is why FW is "accepted" only when all bases are covered (models, rules, publications and the knowledge of them by the organizer and the judges). Even GW models and rules create a lot of problems, FW only pile more problems on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 Any stigma on FW rules is misplaced. Especially within the last 3 or 4 years, and especially when it comes to Chaos. I just got back from walking my dog, and on that long walk I've come to the conclusion that Chaos Space Marines, and really Chaos in general, is now a FW niche army. If you want to actually be on an even (ish) footing with Imperials in terms of quality, model variability, and visual appeal, we have no choice but to either be running count as in combination with an excellent converter/painter, or leverage books like IA13. Did we get a Knight? Yes. That puts us at 1 to Imperials what, 10? -.- EDIT: You know what, make that walking Lord of Skulls 295 points, and a Gargantuan Creature on par with the Wraithknight. Thats what it would take for me to go 'yeah FW writes broken rules too.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGH! I am very excited, but share the same concerns as Tenebris/Scribe/others. I have been burned far too many times by being excited by Chaos releases and then disappointed with their rules. Not going to happen again. I'm hoping the kit will be priced the same as the Imperial Knight but simply purchased through FW (which of course requires the shipping cost, should you buy it directly from FW). There are other kits from FW that include GW plastic pieces in addition to the resin components. Second, I just can't shake the feeling that they will be worse than the loyalist versions. There's going to be something. Of course, the Chaos Fire Raptor is an example of a chaos equivalent being slightly better (to the chagrin of some, who actually complain about that ), so at the very least I'm hoping they will be just as good. I'd rather they be identical stat-wise than have some "fluffy" stupid chaos rules, but that's probably going to happen. It's better to have unique rules, but maybe they will actually be good this time -- AND PRICED APPROPRIATELY! The Lord of Skulls kit is the coolest thing ever, but if it has the same stats/point cost as the Skulldozer, it will remain garbage and only grace the display shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warsmith Aznable Posted May 16, 2015 Share Posted May 16, 2015 The Lord of Skulls kit is the coolest thing ever, but if it has the same stats/point cost as the Skulldozer, it will remain garbage and only grace the display shelf. Truth. 888 points is way too steep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slayer le Boucher Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Like i said with the new Bloodthirster model, Great looking model, still has :cussy rules... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think someone's forgotten the biggest downside of a Forge World model, working with the resin and all it's issues such as miscast pieces, brittle parts which snap off too easily and trying to get the damn superglue to hold it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aspiringchaoschampion Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 the lord of skulls isnt that bad tbh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellrender Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Fw resin is in my experience very good quality, and fw has excellent customer support if a piece is irrepairable. Bend pieces are normally easily fixed and most small fails can be fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Superglue should hold fine though on larger kits I'd be tempted to score the joins and use a rapid set epoxy glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I think someone's forgotten the biggest downside of a Forge World model, working with the resin and all it's issues such as miscast pieces, brittle parts which snap off too easily and trying to get the damn superglue to hold it. I find the glue not working is usually from not getting all the mold release agent off. I have started using a diluted Simple Green Concetrate for an over night soak and that's been working fantastically. For brittle or miscast resin, well their customer service has been impeccable for sending out replacement parts. It's usually just takes an email. I think they recognize the investment you're making and have no problem making sure you're satisfied with their resin crack. ;-) Superglue should hold fine though on larger kits I'd be tempted to score the joins and use a rapid set epoxy glue. It has in my experience, I have pinned larger pieces together just to be safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forté Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Haha, I didn't put about pinning as I pin all sorts of parts. Old habit with metals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
40kChrista Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yup, learned most of my modeling on metal. So pinning was a normal occurance for any conversions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strazhakov Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Consider me hyped. Love the Raptor-style Chainsword on the Knight. Now let us just hope that's just a first test model because it lacks the new carapace and weapon options but I'm cautiously optimistic we'll get to see those in due time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Remember, they had the Eldar Jetbikes they JUST RELEASED at a forgeworld event what...six, seven years ago? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevak Dal Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 In all honesty, I wish Chaos could just take Imperial (drop pods, formations, etc) with a USR called "Space Marines" where ATSKNF is tied to the sargent/champion instead of every guy on the field.Or since they're so keen about "Forging the narrative", whenever it's a Space Marine vs Space Marine game at tournaments, each player should roll a Die, and The Loser has to redo his list-with his models available-as Chaos Space Marines from the Black Legion supplement with as close to WYSIWYG as possible. Bikemaster with TH/Shield Eternal? Whoops, Chaos doesn't HAVE a shield Eternal OR a Thunerhammer. And I see you're allied with a Knight? You better deploy it 12" away. And Sternguard in Drop pods-more like Chosen in Dreadclaws. And THey shall know no fear? No sir, you have Veterans of the Long War-that you HAVE to buy, for EVERY unit-oops, you're over points limit, now it's time to start taking stuff off the table because you can't have an ADVANTAGE. Oh-and you HAVE to challenge. And your guys MIGHT become a Spawn or a Daemon Prince...but-but you don't have Spawn or Daemon Prince models, so they'll just die. Centurions and Tigurious eh? Got some bad news...he's a Sorcerer in Terminator armor with Oblits now. The Lord of Skulls kit is the coolest thing ever, but if it has the same stats/point cost as the Skulldozer, it will remain garbage and only grace the display shelf. Truth. 888 points is way too steep. That :cuss better be a Gargantuan creature and be 300 points or less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khornestar Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 He doesn't seem to have the belly gun, which is part of the loadout of the skulldozer version. That gives me hope that it's a separate unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Plaguecaster Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 He doesn't seem to have the belly gun, which is part of the loadout of the skulldozer version. That gives me hope that it's a separate unit.Let's hope it's a lot cheaper than that over priced GW version seriously 888 GW really must of felt like trolling chaos players by making it so much Khorne related that even its point cost is a dedication to the blood God Any word from those who were at WW are there actually rules for the chaos Knight? or is it just a conversion kit? I'm sure there would of had to of been rules if they were selling the model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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