Prot Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Wow guys, I gotta say I'm bumbed out about this... Officially the rules are out for the new Command tanks (Primaris Rhino and Excelsior Landraider), and while they aren't game breaking, they would have been very useful in my Grey Knights army. I have to be careful how I word this, but the basic idea is: Landraider: basically gives a special rule every turn to a squad in 12" and we've all seen the pics. The special rules are of great variety spanning a lot of the special rules you'd want to use against flyers, or an oncoming assault, or getting out of an assault... Rhino: The rhino is the money for Grey Knights. I have no idea the cost of either vehicle but it has a few uses every turn, including assuring reserves come in from turn 2 on! Wow... stormraven woes would be a lot easier to handle (depending on the cost of the rhino). The other abilities of the rhino are once per turn as well, but can't be used more than once per game: IE orbital strike, and some other smaller abilities that can be repeated to minor effect, like snap fire, or fearless abilities. I guess I feel the most frustrated about this because they actually name the specific armies that can take one or both of these Command Tanks and Grey Knights isn't one of them. In this case I feel like emailing GW because I really don't understand the omission. I sometimes wonder if it's an oversight... it also kills some sales they would otherwise have. It's a real bummer because I would definitely add the Rhino to my force. No doubt about it. The Landraider would be more for fun, but the rhino would be a no brainer.... Then again, the Landraider would be a fun legit way to get a single Grav-Cannon/Amp in the list. Anyone else feel we should have had this? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheHyperion Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Since grey knights are supposed to have the best tech out of all the chapters, I don't understand it's ommision, maybe you could just ally for them though? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4045967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Yup allying is always an option. Literally I thought this omission might be an oversight. Technically it just doesn't make any sense to me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheMostGood Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 GW has never really made much sense with how they do their codex and rules. In the Tau codex, my Hammerhead tank can take a weapon system that has 18' range, TL, 4 shots OR a weapon system that has a 30' range, TL, ignores cover, and ignores LOS with 4 shots. They both have the *same* shooting profile (S, AP) and are both free to take. Why would I ever take the 18' range one? The previous codex actually made the two different too.It might be worth it to send them an email IMO. It doesn't hurt and would only take a few moments to type up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046069 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 you might be right... This reminds me of the big debate we had here over the super lascannon tank from Forgeworld. It turns out Grey Knights can take it. Although to be honest, they worded it differently. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046181 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 On my experience emailing Gw gets you absolutely nothing. I sent one to them two weeks ago on request of a Gw shop owner about the new I knight codex for a wording issue, still waiting for a reply, errata or something. But when it comes to command rhinos and land raiders I'm not surprised we don't get them when gws logic is "Do you feel you should fair variants of a vehicle you own? Well you don't. Why? Because your GK and their not. We already let you deep strike. Rhinos don't deep strike. Your lucky we didn't take those away. Who needs deep strike serve rerolls when you have " first into the fray"? Hell your lucky your not an eBook only yet you ward loving dirt bags. Be grateful too keep what you do have. Any more questions, please feel free to type up an email, and stick it in your ass. As always, Were Games Workshop, and your not. We know best" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046248 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 17, 2015 Author Share Posted May 17, 2015 Well I guess that's why I haven't done it. I've never had a response from GW. Forgeworld? yes, GW? nope. But now I heard the pair of vehicles is in the area of 400 points! Since the greatest value I saw in it was guaranteed reserves, to heck with that. I have a strong feeling the codexes will start to include a variant ruleset, that will still honour the models being created, but probably be much better off rules wise in the coming codexes. Honestly? I think when it's Grey Knights turn, they'd be insane not to include a command vehicle variant. It's like free money... just put a 'command' sprue in an old Landraider box. We all have 200 landraiders we don't use in our closets. What's the easiest way to get us to buy that 201'st landraider? Include a "Excelsior" sprue and take my money GW. lol Don't forget they tried this once already with Apoc a few years back. They invented a 'command sprue' you could buy separately. GW is different now. I'm sure the sprue won't be available separately, and this is the easy ticket to sell us more of what we already have. And I'm probably just stupid enough to buy at LEAST one of them. But for now at this point level? Forget it. The Relay Comms is a lot more value, even without all the cool factor items. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046334 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 They wanna sell land raiders, that's a bonus but if not lower the price in points, ceramite plating needs to become an auto include. Preventing melta drop pods would make me be interested in taking one again Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046508 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 Whilst it's annoying, and as I'm running a mounted raider list for my Knights the Excelsior would be usefull (even if it's looks no where near as good as the starship of the same name) least we have the redeemer and crusader where as chaos has no variants whatsoever.Will be interesting to see what the rules for it are, and how compatible the excelsior bits would be with the Mk IIB from Forge world. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 17, 2015 Share Posted May 17, 2015 I dunno. Comms Array already does the Rhino's job and doesn't die from random S6/7 dinging it's HP away. And whilst a LR handing out special rules is interesting and potentially viable (especially as I see they've replaced the twin-heavy bolter with a grav cannon and grav-amp, very nice), melta exists and now D-weaponry is a lot more common thanks to Eldar. We can always Ally them I guess. But I still think the Aegis Line+Comms is just simpler and more reliable. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046756 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethernitas Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 To offer another perspective - the Excelsior and the Primaris are part of a command ground network to coordinate protracted assaults and large troop detachments. I don't think that Grey Knights have a need for crutches like that. Even if Landraiders and Rhinos are deployed it's only because direct insertion via deepstriking or Thunderhawk/Stormraven is impossible because of warp storms or other complications. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046819 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 To offer another perspective - the Excelsior and the Primaris are part of a command ground network to coordinate protracted assaults and large troop detachments. I don't think that Grey Knights have a need for crutches like that. Even if Landraiders and Rhinos are deployed it's only because direct insertion via deepstriking or Thunderhawk/Stormraven is impossible because of warp storms or other complications. Yeah from a lore perspective it's also kinda wonky. We simply don't do siege warfare. We're a scalpel jammed into the heart of the enemy. Like I said though, for Exorcist or Red Hunter Allies, it's fine. Any word on whether the LR Al Gore hands out buffs to it's detachment only, or is it worded 'friendly models'? I assume the Rhino bonuses are flat Reserves, no specificity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4046908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune Priest Ridcully Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would be interesting to see a grey knight varient, say one that replaced the heavy bolters with psycannons and had rules that made it harder for daemons to hit it in both shooting and close combat with maybe a penalty to invun saves taken against it or something. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4047404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted May 18, 2015 Author Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would be interesting to see a grey knight varient, say one that replaced the heavy bolters with psycannons and had rules that made it harder for daemons to hit it in both shooting and close combat with maybe a penalty to invun saves taken against it or something. ^ This I like. I'm a little disappointed in the release. At first I felt like we missed out. Then I read the points cost and cringed. I don't mind using 'non-competitive' units. It's not like every game I play I MUST win, but this is priced point wise in the realm of 'let's have a super happy fun game'. There's no way I'd pay 400 for those units. It would put me in the hole way too much. But what I've come to believe is these are teaser units. The rules are mediocre, but the real meat is coming in the codex. I think the models will be the real attraction here, but the codex will probably come with better rules, and their own variants. It just makes sense because there's a lot of money to be made there. It's a cool concept too and I could see specialized versions with slight variations for GK, BA, DA, and potentially Chaos. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4047565 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would be interesting to see a grey knight varient, say one that replaced the heavy bolters with psycannons and had rules that made it harder for daemons to hit it in both shooting and close combat with maybe a penalty to invun saves taken against it or something. I'd be happy with a Deimos pattern that isn't absurdly overpriced. IA2 was such a disappointment. I'm a little disappointed in the release. At first I felt like we missed out. Then I read the points cost and cringed. I don't mind using 'non-competitive' units. It's not like every game I play I MUST win, but this is priced point wise in the realm of 'let's have a super happy fun game'. There's no way I'd pay 400 for those units. It would put me in the hole way too much. But what I've come to believe is these are teaser units. The rules are mediocre, but the real meat is coming in the codex. I think the models will be the real attraction here, but the codex will probably come with better rules, and their own variants. It just makes sense because there's a lot of money to be made there. It's a cool concept too and I could see specialized versions with slight variations for GK, BA, DA, and potentially Chaos. They very nice looking. But yeah, GW went full retard with the point costs. Hopefully the rest of the Marine book will be decent. Gonna be another xenos edition otherwise. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4047600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted May 18, 2015 Share Posted May 18, 2015 Would be interesting to see a grey knight varient, say one that replaced the heavy bolters with psycannons and had rules that made it harder for daemons to hit it in both shooting and close combat with maybe a penalty to invun saves taken against it or something. If only they didn't take away true silver armour.... Good ole days of pissing daemons off even more Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4047705 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 If only they didn't take away true silver armour.... Good ole days of pissing daemons off even more It was only a S6 hit IIRC, not that big a deal. What would've been truly hilarious is if we still had 'The Summoning' as a power. Upgrade your LR with the mini-Gellar field, essentially 'Gate' it across the battlefield and use the Libby's teleport homer to prevent scatter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4048479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortysl Posted May 19, 2015 Share Posted May 19, 2015 Both tanks are 'on the ground command echelon units' which, to my mind, doesn't really suit Grey Knight warfare. They're for command and control when facing mortal, predictable foes. Grey Knights fight more fluidly, with command responsibility being given more freely to teams on the ground. More so than conventional Astartes, we fight on the fly, with less reliance on centralised command units. You can't really coordinate an offensive against a foe that doesn't adhere to any natural laws. Just my opinion, mind. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307737-no-command-tanks-for-grey-knights/#findComment-4049546 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.