Emperor's Children 2000

[Phaeton]

Awesomness of Emperor's Children miniatures encourages me to start Horus Heresy and collect that army. I created army list, by which I can plan things to buy. Please feel free to make your comments and advices. I want that list will be close to fluff of III Legion and at least decent competitive.

 

Emperor's Children: Maru Skara

 

HQ

 

Lord Commander Eidolon (205pts): Jump pack.

 

Legion Champion (160pts): Master-crafted phoenix spear, jetbike with heavy bolter, refractor field.

 

Troops

 

15 Legion Tactical Squad (270pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

 

15 Legion Tactical Squad (270pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

 

Elite

 

2 Legion Apothecaries (110pts): 2 artificer armour.

 

7 Palatine Blade Squad (299pts): 4 phoenix spears, jump packs, sonic shriekers.

 

Fast Attack

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (220pts): 3 x2 Kraken penetrator missiles, Ground-tracking Auguries.

 

6 Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (290pts): 2 Multi-Melta, meltabombs.

 

Heavy Support

 

Sicaran Battle Tank (175pts): Lascannons.

 

Open Blade: Tac squads with apothecaries, Sicaran. The rest come T2 from the sides: Eidolon with palatines, Champion with jetbikes. What do you think?

[ak1508]

I would definitely consider using something else in place of meltas, since if your opponent takes armoured ceramite (which they probably will), your meltas are just becoming an overpriced upgrade with not much use and also not that great in terms of range.

 

Also, unless there is an update to it, Palatine Blades only number in 5-s, you cant add more men to them. you could maybe let go of something and have another unit of them though.

[Theredknight]

I would definitely consider using something else in place of meltas, since if your opponent takes armoured ceramite (which they probably will), your meltas are just becoming an overpriced upgrade with not much use and also not that great in terms of range.

 

Also, unless there is an update to it, Palatine Blades only number in 5-s, you cant add more men to them. you could maybe let go of something and have another unit of them though.

Dude you need to catch up, palatines were updated long ago!

 

Seems like a solid list, the only problem iv found with eidolon and palatines is every wound hurts, all it takes is one fairly good round of shooting to whittle those expensive troops down with their 3+ saves.

I field him as standard in a 15 man assault squad, with 2 power swords, power axe and sgt tooled with a spear.

Two Tac units are pretty solid, and sicaran adds some nice cheap dakka.

What are your thinkng of tactics?

[Phaeton]

Well, the tactics is pretty obvious. Tacticals starts on the table and run towards the enemy. T2 Maru Skara forces arriving in safe distance from the enemy, everythin shoots. T3 Palatines and Jetbikes charge in.

 

I think more about that idea and realize, that Palatine Blades without the transport are too fragile. Against good opponen they will more often take all shooting from the board. So I improved the list, making charges on my terms more possible.

 

Emperor's Children: Maru Skara

HQ

Lord Commander Eidolon (185pts).

Legion Champion (165pts): Master-crafted phoenix spear, jetbike with heavy bolter, boarding shield, sonic shrieker.

Troops

15 Legion Tactical Squad (265pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

15 Legion Tactical Squad (265pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

Elite

2 Legion Apothecaries (100pts): 2 augury scanners.

8 Palatine Blade Squad (251pts): 4 phoenix spears, sonic shriekers.

Fast Attack

Storm Eagle (225pts): Multi-melta.

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (220pts): 3 x2 Kraken penetrator missiles, Ground-tracking Auguries.

6 Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (320pts): 2 Volkite culverins, meltabombs, sergeant with phoenix spear, sonic shrieker.

 

Tactics

T1: tacticals with apothecaries start on the board, closing the distance to the enemy T1.

T2: Maru Skara forces arrives:

- Palatines with Eidolon in Storm Eagle

- Jetbikes with Champion

- Lightning.

Lightning and Storm Eagle go for enemy vehicles, trying to supress tanks and destroying transports. Jetbikes shoot at enemy infantry. Tacticals close the distance to the enemy or shoot bolters.

T3: Palatines and jetbikes charges in. Tacticals, if possible, charges too.

 

Theoretically, I will get strategical initiative and charges on my terms because of:

1) Mobility of palatines in Eagle and Jetbikes. 

2) Enemy assault transports hopefully will be destroyed by Lightning and Eagle.

 

Thinking of this army, it's aestetics and modus operandi, I actually fall in love with Emperors's Children. They will be great addition for my Dark Angels: both Legions excess in knightly and martial traditions and swordsmanship.

[Theredknight]

Well, the tactics is pretty obvious. Tacticals starts on the table and run towards the enemy. T2 Maru Skara forces arriving in safe distance from the enemy, everythin shoots. T3 Palatines and Jetbikes charge in.

 

I think more about that idea and realize, that Palatine Blades without the transport are too fragile. Against good opponen they will more often take all shooting from the board. So I improved the list, making charges on my terms more possible.

 

Emperor's Children: Maru Skara

 

HQ

 

Lord Commander Eidolon (185pts).

 

Legion Champion (165pts): Master-crafted phoenix spear, jetbike with heavy bolter, refractor field, sonic shrieker.

 

Troops

 

15 Legion Tactical Squad (270pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

 

15 Legion Tactical Squad (270pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

 

Elite

 

2 Legion Apothecaries (90pts).

 

7 Palatine Blade Squad (249pts): 5 phoenix spears, sonic shriekers.

 

Fast Attack

 

Storm Eagle (225pts): Multi-melta.

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (220pts): 3 x2 Kraken penetrator missiles, Ground-tracking Auguries.

 

6 Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (325pts): 2 Volkite culverins, meltabombs, sergeant with phoenix spear, sonic shrieker.

 

Tactics

T1: tacticals with apothecaries start on the board, closing the distance to the enemy T1.

T2: Maru Skara forces arrives:

- Palatines with Eidolon in Storm Eagle

- Jetbikes with Champion

- Lightning.

Lightning and Storm Eagle go for enemy vehicles, trying to supress tanks and destroying transports. Jetbikes shoot at enemy infantry. Tacticals close the distance to the enemy or shoot bolters.

T3: Palatines and jetbikes charges in. Tacticals, if possible, charges too.

 

Theoretically, I will get strategical initiative and charges on my terms because of:

1) Mobility of palatines in Eagle and Jetbikes.

2) Enemy assault transports hopefully will be destroyed by Lightning and Eagle.

 

Thinking of this army, it's aestetics and modus operandi, I actually fall in love with Emperors's Children. They will be great addition for my Dark Angels: both Legions excess in knightly and martial traditions and swordsmanship.

Yeah sounds a good plan!

I don't think you can give the sgt a shrieker though?

Volkites are great for synergy with the h bolters, I arm them up as a standard with them now.

Also that unit will be pretty bad ass if they need to glance the rear av10/11 to death, should shred IT pretty well. And mb are a nice back up.

 

I never thought about using a storm eagle for the blades, maybe il have to proxy that a game.

 

Ever thought about buffing the champ with a boarding shield? It's cheap, and Even if it's just him with the shield, the whole unit gets the benefits.

 

Iv never used 6 jetbikes in a 2 k list before, might try it out!

 

Also on the apothecaries, worth art armour and augury scanner?

[Phaeton]

Yeah sounds a good plan!

I don't think you can give the sgt a shrieker though?

Volkites are great for synergy with the h bolters, I arm them up as a standard with them now.

Also that unit will be pretty bad ass if they need to glance the rear av10/11 to death, should shred IT pretty well. And mb are a nice back up.

 

I never thought about using a storm eagle for the blades, maybe il have to proxy that a game.

 

Ever thought about buffing the champ with a boarding shield? It's cheap, and Even if it's just him with the shield, the whole unit gets the benefits.

 

Iv never used 6 jetbikes in a 2 k list before, might try it out!

 

Also on the apothecaries, worth art armour and augury scanner?

 

 

You are right, I've mistaken with shriekers on sergeants. I'll use this points for augury scanners for apothecaries - they can be really useful. Thank you for advice.

Boarding shield is another good idea - same as refractor in melee, but gives defensive grenades. And when something nasty shoot jetbikes, they jink anyway, so it doesn't matter, 6++ or 5++.

Also, I tweaked palatines - now 8 with 4 spears instead of 7 with 5. 

Apothecaries with artificial... Good, but I haven't points for this.

Storm Eagle is just good - guaranteed charge for palatines on turn 3, plus linked MM turn 2. Also it has sufficient resilience with 4 hp 12 av with jink and flyer.

[ak1508]

 

I would definitely consider using something else in place of meltas, since if your opponent takes armoured ceramite (which they probably will), your meltas are just becoming an overpriced upgrade with not much use and also not that great in terms of range.

 

Also, unless there is an update to it, Palatine Blades only number in 5-s, you cant add more men to them. you could maybe let go of something and have another unit of them though.

Dude you need to catch up, palatines were updated long ago!

 

 

 

If what you say is true, then I most certainly do! Is that the book where the most up to date info on them is?

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_Books/THE_HORUS_HERESY_LEGIONES_ASTARTES:_ISSTVAN_CAMPAIGN_LEGIONS.html

 

If so, then those two are the only ones (and the Tempest) that I still dont have, which is why I went off track I guess.

 

But since it is legal, I'd say that's a very decent list!

[Phaeton]

 

 

If what you say is true, then I most certainly do! Is that the book where the most up to date info on them is?

 

http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/The_Horus_Heresy/Horus_Heresy_Books/THE_HORUS_HERESY_LEGIONES_ASTARTES:_ISSTVAN_CAMPAIGN_LEGIONS.html

 

If so, then those two are the only ones (and the Tempest) that I still dont have, which is why I went off track I guess.

 

But since it is legal, I'd say that's a very decent list!

 

 

Yes, this is a book with up-to-date rules for legion specific things. In case of palatines, they can add up to 5 additional men. Thanks for reply.

[ak1508]

It's good that you mentioned it though. Cause  EC are also on my "to do" armies list, so the fact that PBs are now able to become 10 man strong is really great news!

[Theredknight]

It's in The istvaan campaign legions book, like the lacal book?

 

Regards boarding shield, my thought was in combat, in case he gets bopped with an ap2 weapon. (As EC we care forced to challenge)

 

Plus he can chuck a blind grenade before the charge to reduce the enemy to ws1 hopefully

 

Yes sometimes trying to find those 20pts is tricky.

But bear in mind again with the negative challenge, if your sgt goes to a hard character, your apoth will be next. But I suppose, hel likely be getting hit with an ap2 weapon anyway so what the heck,

 

When is your game?

[Phaeton]

 

Regards boarding shield, my thought was in combat, in case he gets bopped with an ap2 weapon. (As EC we care forced to challenge)

 

Plus he can chuck a blind grenade before the charge to reduce the enemy to ws1 hopefully

 

Yes sometimes trying to find those 20pts is tricky.

But bear in mind again with the negative challenge, if your sgt goes to a hard character, your apoth will be next. But I suppose, hel likely be getting hit with an ap2 weapon anyway so what the heck,

 

When is your game?

 

Boarding shield is definetely a good idea.

 

In case of apothecaries: if melee go wrong, so my sergeant is slain and I didn't won a combat AND if on the next assault phase I will not help tacticals with Palatines or Sky Hunters or another tacticals, then apothecary will be doomed anyway, regardless of his armour. Potentially, with the whole tactical squad. I will mitigate this problem by using combined arms tactics.

 

As for the game, it will be not soon. Now I crystallize the idea, what I want of this army, and start collecting and painting it. This list is my to-buy and to-do list. However, maybe I playtest it with proxies of my DA in sooner perspective.

[Caustic63]

Well, the tactics is pretty obvious. Tacticals starts on the table and run towards the enemy. T2 Maru Skara forces arriving in safe distance from the enemy, everythin shoots. T3 Palatines and Jetbikes charge in.

 

I think more about that idea and realize, that Palatine Blades without the transport are too fragile. Against good opponen they will more often take all shooting from the board. So I improved the list, making charges on my terms more possible.

 

Emperor's Children: Maru Skara

 

HQ

 

Lord Commander Eidolon (185pts).

 

Legion Champion (165pts): Master-crafted phoenix spear, jetbike with heavy bolter, boarding shield, sonic shrieker.

 

Troops

 

15 Legion Tactical Squad (265pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

 

15 Legion Tactical Squad (265pts): Legion vexilla, additional chainswords, sergeant with artificer armour, sonic shrieker, phoenix spear.

 

Elite

 

2 Legion Apothecaries (100pts): 2 augury scanners.

 

8 Palatine Blade Squad (251pts): 4 phoenix spears, sonic shriekers.

 

Fast Attack

 

Storm Eagle (225pts): Multi-melta.

 

Primaris-Lightning Strike Fighter (220pts): 3 x2 Kraken penetrator missiles, Ground-tracking Auguries.

 

6 Jetbike Sky Hunter Squadron (320pts): 2 Volkite culverins, meltabombs, sergeant with phoenix spear, sonic shrieker.

 

Tactics

T1: tacticals with apothecaries start on the board, closing the distance to the enemy T1.

T2: Maru Skara forces arrives:

- Palatines with Eidolon in Storm Eagle

- Jetbikes with Champion

- Lightning.

Lightning and Storm Eagle go for enemy vehicles, trying to supress tanks and destroying transports. Jetbikes shoot at enemy infantry. Tacticals close the distance to the enemy or shoot bolters.

T3: Palatines and jetbikes charges in. Tacticals, if possible, charges too.

 

Theoretically, I will get strategical initiative and charges on my terms because of:

1) Mobility of palatines in Eagle and Jetbikes. 

2) Enemy assault transports hopefully will be destroyed by Lightning and Eagle.

 

Thinking of this army, it's aestetics and modus operandi, I actually fall in love with Emperors's Children. They will be great addition for my Dark Angels: both Legions excess in knightly and martial traditions and swordsmanship.

 

The Maru Skara is a Rite of War that is by far the most positional compared to the others, which makes it surprising when included in a design system where the unique Rites are intended to expand on the legion unique units and rules. One would've expected something based around Sonic Marines, but instead the Emperor's Children have the ability to grant Outflank and guaranteed reserve arrival to the legion's best mobile units. As I've said before, Maru Skara works really well versus static gunline armies as you can craft deadly ambushes that get right in your opponent's face very quickly.

 

I noticed that you liked a bunch of my posts in the Emperor's Children Tactica. It's nice to see that there are 30K players out there who are interested in what I have to say! Since this is your most recent list, I'll start with this one.

 

The biggest change I would apply would be to swap the Storm Eagle for a Dreadclaw Drop Pod and run the Palatines/Eidolon in this vehicle instead. Not only is it quite a bit cheaper, but it also shows up on the first turn giving you a chance to position briefly, weather a turn of shooting (Jink certainly helps) then launch a T2 charge.

 

I view Meltabombs as being almost essential equipment on your Tacticals and Champion, given the odds you'll end up in combat with a Dreadnaught/Knight you can't harm. I've run expensive units of marines as Chaos and I can say its one of the most useful upgrades for its points you can take. I'm a bit weary of the Power Spears in the Tactical squads, but since its Maru Skara (+1 movement, +1 run, +1 charge first turn), Emperor's Children (extra 2D6 pick highest run) and Eidolon (+1 charge) I suppose you have the mobility to pull it off should you choose to use them aggressively. Artificer Armour/Power Weapons on your Apothecaries can't be a bad idea either since your opponent can isolate them in a challenge if you have no characters left.

 

I would advise against using Jetbikes as a close combat unit as it is a waste of their mobility and firepower. They might be fast, but they don't compare to Palatine Blades/Buffed Phoenix Terminators in terms of combat potential. While it may seem like Volkite Culverins are the best choice over Multimeltas... they join with the Heavy Bolters to make the unit long range torrent fire. Heavy Squads with Culverins/Support Squads with Calivers perform this role MUCH more effectively, meaning that the Jetbikes are sort of expensive and pointless in terms of army synergy. Yeah they are Imperial Jetbikes, but once I get used to that I'm going to realize they aren't an immediate threat to anything in my legion army apart from Rhinos (Rhinos in a legion army? Not likely).

 

My point is that highly mobile Multimeltas are rarely a bad choice, given that a large number of enemy vehicles don't have Armored Ceramite and/or are vulnerable to a flanking high strength low AP shot regardless of whether it gets multiple penetration dice or not. Skyhunters do a great job as mobile armour hunters, and they even have the ability to kite Imperial Knights. This gives them a role in your army that no other unit does better.

 

Perhaps you can use the spare points from the trimmings above to squeeze in a Sicarian or Dreadnaught? Heck even a Culverin Squad in Heavy Support wouldn't be too bad (hint - you can use the Kakophoni models for these)

 

EDIT: Oh I almost forgot about your Legion Champion!

 

I can see two useful places for him - #1 is inside a tactical squad (by RAW, his Sonic Shrieker passes the initiative bonus to the rest of the squad but some people disagree with this on principle - discuss before the game) and #2 would be as a possibly solo relic bearer. If you are fortunate enough to own Book #4, there are a number of useful relics you can buy for your champion to give him a good role. A Portable Void Shield Generator is pretty good as it protects nearby models, as is a Warp Shunt Field which greatly increases your protection against shooting making it good solo. Relics are expensive, but if you know what you're doing some of them can be worth it.

[Phaeton]

First of all, I want to say that it is Captain Semper's EC and Caustic63's Emperor's Children tactics thread encourages me to start this army. Thanks for that. Deciding point for me was Maru Skara tactics, described in details in EC tactics thread. Emperor's Children looks very mobile, initiative army and I like it. 

 

Now, to the concrete points.

 

1) Anvillus over Storm Eagle.

I see your point, and agree that possibility of T2 charge is a great benefit of Anvillus over Eagle. However, in that kind of list as I have now, Anvillus will be the only threat to enemy in his deploy zone T1. Potentially it will be destroyed with focus fire of all army (I will do that, if I'll be my opponent). After that, enemy can outrange palatines and shoot them. The rest of our threats come to play T2, giving opponent a turn of acting on his terms. Army divided into 3 asyncronysed parts - palatines in Anvillus, tacticals in deploy zone, Maru Skara forces. And of this bricks, palatines are in dangerous position because of their close proximity to the enemy.

 

In my concept, 3 threats come to enemy T2 in one large army part. Enemy will not have ability to supress them all at once and deal with me peace-meal. And not forget, that tacticals T2 will be closer to the enemy, than T1, so they become a little threat too. In this case, enemy will forced to answer threats on all perimeter in ONE turn, for which hopefully he will have not enough fire/strikepower to answer.

Also, Storm Eagle is more durable than Anvillus because of 4 hp and flyer. There are high chances that with a lot of simultaneous targets for enemy and durability of Eagle palatines will be in safety and make their charge T3 without any casualties.

 

2) Meltabombs.

Meltabombs is definetely a needed upgrade, I agree. But I haven't spare points for them. Maybe, I'll change augury scanners for meltabombs in tacticals. Champion doesn't need one, because his intended squad (Sky Hunters) already has 6.

 

3) Jetbikes.

I'm going to use jetbikes with Champion as a second, support melee unit. Yes, they will not have enough striking power to defeat enemy dedicated melee specialists. However, with Champion and sergeant with Phoenix spears they give good enough punch to defeat generic non-melee dedicated squad. And volkite culverins + heavy bolters help doing that. With MB's they can make a threat for enemy heavyvehicles, which is their second role in my list.

As for Multi-meltas, honestly I don't see them combining with the rest of squad heavy bolters. If you shoot heavy tanks with MM, HB do nothing (and this tank can have ceramite after all). If you shoot infantry, MM gives only 1 shot. 

Also, I see your argumentation on this. I will playtest this unit with different weapons, because theoretically this question is hard to solve.

 

4) Sicarans, dreadnoughts.

I like models of them very much, but in my opinion they do not fit very well in EC in general and in this particularl list. By taking 2500 pts or higher I will think about fire support elements, but now I want to include as much mobile strike forces, as I can.

 

5) Champion. 

Partially I answered this case in p.3. I can only add that I haven't "Conquest" book, so I can't afford relics now.

 

And in general, your advices is argumented and precise, Caustic63. I think that I should playtest this concepts and make conclusions after some game practice with them.

[The Nephilim]

What about an orbital assault/pod list?

[Phaeton]

What about an orbital assault/pod list?

 

Maybe I try it later, now I interested in Maru Skara.