undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 What am I doing wrong? I have about 13,000 points of Blood Angels and have run a variety of different lists against them, but I can't beat chaos marines! even tried with nids and necrons and i just can't get through all of their boon junky characters. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dolchiate Remembrancer Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Hey undead, I feel your pain but knowing those of this forum, you might want to let us know what you are often fighting against. I know when I brought that to the table it was easier to pin point the right and wrong way to go about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's kind of hard to put down what he runs, since he tends to run a bit of everything. All that I know is that he buys maximum boons for everything/everyone that can take them and then tends to rush for CC with cultists on objective. I've tried alpha strike tactics with lots of Jps and Dps and heavy mech lists, good hybrid lists, you name it with BAs and nothing can compete with those damned chaos characters. They start out crazy and then just get more ludicrous as the game goes on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andystarscream Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Have you tried to fight fire with fire? A CC orientated list or death company heavy list? Im no expert lol not even close but its what id try :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Yeah, CC oriented chaos marine characters have eaten almost an entire squad of DC themselves. I'm dealing with charcters getting 9+ attacks when charged at ap 2 and 3 swinging at initiative 6+ in multiple places all across the board. I'm at my wits end and am close to just conceding whenever I know an opponent will be running Chaos Marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSauce Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm sorry, but I don't know what chaos characters are that nasty, but maybe we're delving into FW? Most normal chaos lords are only 3+, maybe on a bike or with mark of nurgle for T6, but are otherwise about captain-equivalent. Demon princes can be nasty, but are vulnerable to high strength shooting (i.e. melta) because they can't hide in a unit. A number of the marks can be a huge pain in the butt (there's one that gives 4+ FNP, for example), but not all of the baddies can be boon'd up the same way, so you just need to pick your targets. I've have good luck with dreadnoughts against chaos, as they can throw out a bunch of S10 attacks at high initiative. Librarian dreadnoughts can also work well with their high initiative force weapon attacks. Tactically, if you're willing to combat squad your units into smaller bunches, you can afford to sacrifice a small unit to the big baddies each round to try to tie them up and slow them down while you try to take objectives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 ??? Are you sure your opponents aren't just cheating? Chaos Space Marines are not that powerful. Unless you're playing unbound he can't take that many characters. There's only 1 strike at initiative AP2 weapon in the chaos space marine book and its an artifact so it can't be spammed. Special Characters have other ones (Khârn, Abaddon) but they can't be given extra upgrades. Chaos Space Marine special characters are quite strong but they're also a lot of points, any army with more than one of them in it is going to have shortcomings elsewhere. A character who costs as much as a unit of deathcompany by himself killing deathcompany isn't really surprising. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 I dunno, his squads tend to just not die and I feel like everytime I try and toss something against him it's equivelent to putting rats down a garbage disposal. They flail abit, but ultimately get chewed up in quick order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 CSM is what i play against the most, even though they are a bottom tier codex, they still do well against other assault armies. Drop pods are not very good vs CSM, neither are 100 pointish char's. Go big or small with your char's/ICs. If i'd were to rank best CSM units vs BA: Lord MoN T6 bike Fist and claw and the 4++ attached to 5 MoN spawn also T6 Maulerfiend Heldrake Obliterators MoN Bloodthirster (kinda weaker now that we can take grav, and our Stormraven is concussive. If you want to build a take all comer list that is decent vs CSM you need atleast one unit of grav bikes, some kind of melta unit to deal with the fast maulerfiends and Stormravens to deal with Heldrakes. Best way to deal with spawn is: Meph, Libby Dread in Raven (str 10 and force) or having assault cannons/autocannons on them. If you just want to hard counter CSM bring 2-3 stormravens with 2 libby dreads and hammernators then Dante joined to anything mobile, you need him for the re-serve rerolls. Turn 3 will be devestating for the CSM, remember to abuse CSM has to challenge with your Libby Dreads and 3++ Hammernator sarge. If he has Daemon Princes or Blood thirsters save rockets for them so his init 1 for the turn 3 assaults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 That and last match he managed to have a T7 Biker with FNP and 2+ SV. Yeah, their dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 This totally sounds like someone is cheating. The CSM codex is just not that powerful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolemy Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 it's equivelent to putting rats down a garbage disposal. They flail abit, but ultimately get chewed up in quick order. Hahahahahaha! Oh it's so wrong but it's funny. If you could give some specific examples of his characters that are giving you such problems, people might be able to give you better advice on how to counter them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I'm not sure how he managed to get a T7 biker. A Nurgle biker lord is T6 and the only way it has a 2+ is with the daemonheart from C:CSM: Crimson Slaughter. It wouldn't get FNP unless he has it in a squad with Icon of Excess and that doesn't happen due to the Nurgle lord being unable to join a slaanesh squad. Dude is cheating man, don't feel bad, just don't play with him again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Has anyone here actually read some of the BS present in Codex: Chaos Marines? Like, really sat down and looked at it? I own it. And I can attest first hand that that boon chart is absolutely rediculous. Seriously, I built a couple lists in my head with the idea of abusing that chart and I wouldn't feel right running that against anyone. I've heard lots of complaints about how weak Chaos Marines are and I honestly can't see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I play CSM. The boon chart sucks. If he is taking max boons I promise you can nearly table him almost every game. Especially with Blood Angels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 He got all those buffs from boons off of tac sergeants, though he had the t7 off of his starting boon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ptolemy Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 That and last match he managed to have a T7 Biker with FNP and 2+ SV. Yeah, their dumb. Sounds like: Chaos Lord -Bike -Mark of Nurgle -Gift of mutation - #33, Crystaline Body I don't know how he would get the 2+ save though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Closet Skeleton Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 Feel no pain is on the boon table. Since feeding sergeants to chaos characters is kind of a good tactic they can easily end up with lots of rolls on it. You just need one lucky roll to make a Chaos Lord with the Axe of Blind Fury and a Juggernaut of Khorne S6 I6 AP2 with 7+1d6 attacks on the charge. But unlucky rolls and he'll kill himself and he's not that good defensively. But its random, so not really broken. Not when turning into a spawn is the most likely individual option. First time I fought the current book a 400 point daemon prince turned itself into a spawn on turn 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 Lol yeah, I understand alot of it comes down to luck, but, you've never seen this kid play DnD. Kid gets more natural 20s than anyone, ever. I guess I just have to hope that at some point he stops getting lucky rolls perfectly compliment every character he rolls for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 2 Libby dreads in Ravens with reserve re-rolls shuts down most of the good CSM units (Heldrake, IC's, MoN spawns) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradigm Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 I get they can get it on the boon table, but I just don't see how he is getting so many boons. There are hardly enough turns in a game to warrant it. I still think they guy is cheating. I've played CSM for well over a decade, and this is the weakest they've been since just before sixth edition dropped. Paying for multiple boons is a huge lose-lose, as you lose points and you are far more likely to get something useless than useful. Try taking dual vindi's or tri las preds with some missile launcher devs, throw in a couple squads of tacs with a flamer and heavy flamer in rhinos. A libby for some unit buffing, and support. You'll likely table him, unless he has very specific builds. Don't forget to make the units fast. And don't accept the challenges if they're coming out bad for you. You have the advantage for the challenge as you don't have to say yes. Also use the libby's force weapon to insta-gib his challengers if you need to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pavement Artist Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 But what is your specific complaint about it? The boon chart is completely random, it's not like this will happen every game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
undeadfilth Posted May 21, 2015 Author Share Posted May 21, 2015 It does happen every game. I haven't won a game against him with any army against his chaos space marines in the last almost year now, except for a small point match where I brought the swarmlord in a 750 pt match for lols. I need to take this kid to vegas sometime. With his dice rolls we'd make a killing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSauce Posted May 21, 2015 Share Posted May 21, 2015 It's a little underhanded, but if you find yourself with a tactical squad against a nasty chaos character, just decline challenges with the sergeant. The chaos champion has to issue a challenge if he can, but you don't have to accept it. You only roll on the boon table if your champion kills a character, and when you decline a challenge the champion (who might be swinging at a higher initiative) will/must swing against your chumps. If the rest of the CSM squad wipes out your sergeant, then no boon for his champion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 Are you able to post a battle report from your last encounter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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