I can't beat chaos marines

[Zeller]

CSM khorne lords are plain stupid. The demonkin lord is plain cheese. If he's running balanced lists have you used vindicators, furioso, multi-melta attack bikes, and maybe a sternguard squad? I run very balanced CSM armies but my characters are pretty mild (no relics or special characters). The only CSM armies I've fought that are tough are dreadnought walls, cultisits, demon prince special characters, flying princes, and mauler fiends. 

[knife&fork]

Do you also find yourself unable to beat Airman when playing Mega Man 2? :D (internet points for anyone who gets that reference. )

 

Seriously though, take in some of the advice you've gotten so far. Most imporantly IMHO is not to feed any of his good CC units. The only things that we have that can really kill off buffed princes and the like is a buffed lib dread. Units like sanguinary guard on the other hand will be a complete waste.

 

Kill the nasty CC stuff with high S shooting (or use the lib dread for anything without armorbane), always deny challanges, combat squad and buy ablative rhinos for your infantry. It's also easy to get tricked into shooting cultist. They are soft, flammable and really tempting to engage. The trick to doing so however is only doing this when you can really hurt them. BA normally don't pack enough volume of fire to waste shooting on a 20 man blob. They should be a target for things like your DC or flamer heavy tac squads, not much else.

 

Good luck!

[Xenith]

Please. Post this guys unbeatable army in the Chaos forums. People have been trying to come up with good CSM armies for years there and have had no luck.

 

T7 Lord is down to luck. Typically a Nurgle biker lord with fist and claws, and daemon heart. Who then cannot join units with the mark of Khorne.

 

If only BA had some character who had ap2 that strikes at initiative. 

 

Seriously, though, BSF goes before his squads. Death company should be tearing them apart. Chaos have no reliable way of getting close beyond bikes and land raiders.

 

Buying boons for everyone is...dumb. The boon table is terrible. Maybe you aren't telling us how many times he spawns himself? Or rolls 'no effect'?

 

Drop pods are bad, as you are putting yourself where he wants you.

 

Vindicators, librarian dreads whatever.

 

Chaos are weak right now.

[Remtek]

CSM are not weak (kinda), MoN spawn are better than DC, but the normal fluffy stuff is (zerkers, marines, plaguemarines etc.) Any standard BA list is not gonna roll a solid CSM lists it should be quite even, it's just 80% of the flavor units are really bad, so you see many more weak lists from CSM. I'd trade a Storm Raven for a Drake, or a Furioso for a Maulerfiend in a heartbeat (statwise) CSM are fine if you take the right units. 

[Charlo]

Do you also find yourself unable to beat Airman when playing Mega Man 2? :D (internet points for anyone who gets that reference.)

I just can't defeat Airman! Urge to repaint and remodel army with arm bolters... Rising

[Xenith]

 CSM are fine if you take the right units. 

 

The book being ok if you don't take 9/10 of the units in the book is not an indictment of strength.

 

You say a standard BA list will be quite even with a solid CSM list. That is not not an indictment of strength.

 

BA have so many advantage over chaos that it's unreal. I guess CSM have access to more Lvl 3 casters.

[Remtek]

Book is bad as litt lacks many good options, my point is you cant just say you should be tabling X codex, because they are weak/lack internal balance. The guy his playing might just have a better list/composition. It's not like your seeing many different Tau lists  they are more or less the same. Thats why most of the 7th books are good, most of the options are internally balanced, so you have a lot of viable options, but it dosnt say if the book is more competitive.

 

CSM have plenty of good semi competitive lists. Zombie spam with Tyfus, fast lists with maulers/spawn or souldgrinders/Oblits

[Paradigm]

Eh, I said if they take maxed out boons, Blood Angels will likely table csm. Most other marine dexes are very effective at reducing a chaos marine army to vainly whispered prayers as well, but BA, and SW are particularly good at it. Oblits are too expensive despite their utility, the typhus list is tough if they get across the board but that is a big if. Soul Grinders aren't a csm unit, they are in codex daemons. Maulers and spawn/drakes/bikes, with a juggerlord rolling with the spawn or bikes, and cultists for mandatory slots, are one of the few competitive builds. There are a lot of very bad ways to build a chaos marine army, and only a few competitive ones.

 

Conversely, you can really build a good, competitive army with a lot of the unit entries in C:BA. It is a great dex, and fast rhino chassis is a big part of that.

[Quixus]

Lol yeah, I understand alot of it comes down to luck, but, you've never seen this kid play DnD.  Kid gets more natural 20s than anyone, ever.  I guess I just have to hope that at some point he stops getting lucky rolls perfectly compliment every character he rolls for.

 

 

It does happen every game.  I haven't won a game against him with any army against his chaos space marines in the last almost year now, except for a small point match where I brought the swarmlord in a 750 pt match for lols.

I need to take this kid to vegas sometime.  With his dice rolls we'd make a killing!

Looks like you need to give him new dice - and insist on him using them. Alternately insist on a dice swap.

[SnorriSnorrison]

If only BA had some character who had ap2 that strikes at initiative.

Hey, but we d....oh I see what you did there.

[Nova_chron]

Technically we have 2

[Cronhour]

Spam dc squads? Puncy plus no ics? Take a Libby dread with ba primeris and minimal troops and shooty vehicles. Deny his boons and what he has to target for a boon will likly swinging before him with a str 10 force weapon.

Dont forget you can fit 60 dc in a Baal force and only run 3 characters.

[Bukimimaru]

The last 2 pages have mostly been "Chaos is over powered" or "Chaos suck". Not majorly helpful. 

 

 

 

What I think we really need from you Undeadfilth is a few more specifics; The only details we have from you is "He takes a bit of everything and just rolls really well".

 

 

 

If its just a case of the guy being lucky, there’s not much we can do to help, but if you tell us the names of the units you are struggling most with or the names of some of the main characters / loadouts that are giving you grief we can give you some more helpful advice.

 

[nevaenuffbass]

Please. Post this guys unbeatable army in the Chaos forums. People have been trying to come up with good CSM armies for years there and have had no luck.

 

T7 Lord is down to luck. Typically a Nurgle biker lord with fist and claws, and daemon heart. Who then cannot join units with the mark of Khorne.

 

If only BA had some character who had ap2 that strikes at initiative

w.

I get that this comment is tongue in cheek - but just to be clear to the original poster - Dante and anyone carrying the ap2 blood Angels sword relic strike at imitative with

 

I run Csm, as do many people who have posted on here. You really shouldn't be having this trouble.

I got some advice on this forum that kinda hurt, but helped a lot. Maybe it's not your list. Maybe it's the way you play. I've started taking photos at the end of each turn against my regular opponents. Going over them I can see mistakes.

 

If it is the combat characters you are worried about: shoot, tarpit, avoid.

[Xenith]

 

I got some advice on this forum that kinda hurt, but helped a lot. Maybe it's not your list. Maybe it's the way you play.

 

 

Agreed, post their list, and post your battle reports.

[Zhukov]

It is the thing which bothers me the most regarding 40k discussions online, the focus is overall too much on list building and too little on actual playing. I often get this confirmed when playing as well, good lists but quite mediocre tactics behind, making people lose anyways. Then afterwards? Most of them go into a state of cognitive dissonance and try to argue that their oppenent their list was better, or that the matchup/dice/terrain was no in their favour. The people questioning their own play? Those are rare, I've met a few though and those usually end up getting really good at this game (or any game for that matter).

 

Anyways, ramblings aside, amusing thread.

 

Has anyone here actually read some of the BS present in Codex: Chaos Marines? Like, really sat down and looked at it?  I own it.  And I can attest first hand that that boon chart is absolutely rediculous.  Seriously, I built a couple lists in my head with the idea of abusing that chart and I wouldn't feel right running that against anyone.  I've heard lots of complaints about how weak Chaos Marines are and I honestly can't see it. 

Yes I have, I know a thing or 2 about playing CSM. There is indeed quite some BS in there, not the abusive kind of BS though (except for the people playing CSM for a long time, they tend to feel abused at some point). Mate, the boon chart is not ridiculous. A Boon costs 10 points and most characters can only take 1. If you feed him tactical squads including offering up Sergeants in challenges, then that is the problem.

 

Try Dante and Deathcompany, a lot of them. Try playing with minimal troops, or if you take more: Shoot at a distance, or if you get charged, do it with the intent of charging him next turn with a unit which is behind it. 

 

For example:

 

Dante + Death Company

 

Tactical Squad ----- Tactical Squad

 

Bikers + Lord + Spawn whatever

 

I really should use pictures lol. Anyways, the above should be looked at topdown. The Tacticals go and shoot (take plasmaguns, including combiplasma on the serg). They do some wounds potentially. Then in his turn he goes off and murders the tactical squads (You refuse challenges! Do not give him free boons, it is pointless!) If he can charge your Death Company, then you messed up positioning, should not happen since you can pre-meassure things. 

 

Then he stand there in the open and you charge him with Dante + Death Company and he is dead. Remember that he has to challenge or accept challenges. You accept with Dante. 

 

This is a very easy tactic to pull off, not ideal, but it gets the trick done.

 

Stormraven is pretty good at removing Obliterators and Heldrakes, if he runs them. Maulerfiends are the most dangerous for your entire army actually, does he even run them? Did not hear you about it. You shoot those, assaulting can be annoying as they can reduce your attacks. A 10 man tactical squad with 1 meltabomb will still kill a Maulerfiend most of the time though. 

 

Well that's enough helping for today.