Combining Skitarii and Cult

[Frater Cornelius]

Since we have the info now, let's make a few lists. Here are two lists that include Skits and Cult:

 

1850 Skitarii + Elimination Maniple

Hidden Content

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

 

Onager - Icarus Array, Stubber

Onager - Neutron Laser

Onager - Neutron Laser

 

5 Kataphron Destroyers - Grav/Phosphor

5 Kataphron Destroyers - Grav/Phosphor

 

3 Kastelan Bots - 2 TL-Heavy Phosphor Blaster, 1 Double-Fist, 3 Heavy Phosphor Blaster

+ 1 Data Smith (Warlord)

 

1820pts (30pts reserved for Relics and Upgrades for Data Smith)

 

1850 Skitarii + Cult Detachment

Hidden Content

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Plasma Caliver (Warlord)

 

Onager - Icarus Array

Onager - Neutron Laser

 

3 Kataphron Destroyers - Grav/Phosphor

3 Kataphron Destroyers - Grav/Phosphor

 

2 Kastelan Bots - 2 TL-Heavy Phosphor Blaster, 2 Heavy Phosphor Blaster

+ 1 Data Smith

2 Kastelan Bots - 2 TL-Heavy Phosphor Blaster, 2 Heavy Phosphor Blaster

+ 1 Data Smith

 

Tech-Priest Dominus (joins the Skitarii Warlord unit to heal himself and tank)

 

1825pts (25pts reserved for Relics or Upgrades for Tech Priest)

 

The second version is for when you can not play the Formation. It has better Canticles instead and a Skit Plasma Death Squad.

 

Let's discuss it.

[Vash]

I am guessing your leaving the air as it is. I don't know what your meta looks like, but around here flyers can come in strong forces at times. 

Your ground forces are strong, very strong. But is it enough if the opponent has very strong flyers to back him up?

 

Don't get me wrong, I like the list. I looks very similar to the one I am building at the moment. 

[mmimzie]

I think the second list should drop the kataphrons. Destroys look like they are gonna be lacking with out ignore cover.

 

By droping the kataphrons you could take that kastelan formation. then you can put the priest in that unit and those robots will reck house. you wont ever over kill with the units becuase each robot fires on its own.

 

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Arc Rifles

10 Vanguard - Omnispex, 3 Plasma Caliver (Warlord)

 

 

3x Onager - 2xNeutron Laser, Icarus Array

 

Kastelan formation:

2 Kastelan Bots - 2 TL-Heavy Phosphor Blaster, 2 Heavy Phosphor Blaster

+ 1 Data Smith

2 Kastelan Bots - 2 TL-Heavy Phosphor Blaster, 2 Heavy Phosphor Blaster

+ 1 Data Smith

 

Tech-Priest Dominus

 

 

then you could add dragoons or vanguards to your liking. The kastelons are like a mega knight healing wounds and throwing lots of dice out.  Dragoons would be good for finishing up tanks or securing objectives. Everything has big saves except the vanguards so a 4th unit would rock.

 

 I like onagers together. If some one has a flyer their just gonna blow up your anti hair before thier air hits the board.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, the second was meant for when you can not field Formations for whatever reason.

[Targetlock]

like the look of both lists, aiming towards something similar.

[Frater Cornelius]

After reading a certain article and watching a few of their Batreps, I have to say that I want to change the way I approach the choice of allies for Skitarii. Skitarii put out such sick offensive power, that you do not need allies to do the heavy-lifting. In fact, I would not consider Skitarii an addition to other armies but rather use Skitarii as the core. Since the damage is well covered, what Skitarii would need is utility. The question is, what can Cult bring them, that does not amount to more dakka?

 

Well, only three things come to mind on the first glance:

1) Tech Priest Dominus makes for an excellent tank for the inevitable Plasma Warlord unit. He has a 2+/5++, FnP and the ability to repair himself.

 

2) The relic that allows you to mark a vehicle and your units to re-roll to pen against that vehicle. This plays very well with the Plasma unit, should it need to shoot a tank, but mainly enhances the killing power of the Onagers, Dragoons and Sicarians against AV (that Relic would allow a group of 3 Dragoons kill a Land Raider on the charge).

 

3) Cohort Cybernetica. Having a 'broken' unit is very valuable in 40k. Adding a nigh unkillable unit with very good firepower to camp the mid field to an army with extreme output is a pretty good idea. Taking this would also mean taking 2) as well.

 

Anything beyond that simply amount to more dakka, which Skitarii do not need. Frankly, right now I am hesitant. The Cohort is the biggest draw here, but investing in several expensive boxes for a Formation that might not even exist in a few years and have the models collect dust is not in my interest. I will consider carefully if a Formation-less build is good enough to considered over Inquisition, IG or SM allies.

[Nehekhare]

I like the cult mechanicus formations. They are basically always better than a CAD or the battle congregation, exept when you field the combined war convocation.

 

cybernetica cohort is one badass deathstar, holy requisitioner is an ace objective grabber + titan destroyer, the elimination maniple may not be autoinclude anymore, but is still better than obsec.

 

for plasma vanguard, you'll need either an alpha warlord (for prefE) or the war convocation (ignore gets hot).

 

consider allying in up to 6 drop pods for your skitarii with a flesh tearer strike force (tax: 1 priest/5 scouts). All that dakka is wasted when out of range, you need that alpha strike.

 

to that end, coteaz with some servitors wil fit nicely. As will a culexus or a knight.

[Brother Amarel]

Discussing the interactions between formations / detachments is fine in this forum, but if you want to discuss actual list content and viability, then it needs to be done in the Army List sub-forum (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/forum/191-adeptus-mechanicus-army-lists/).

[Frater Cornelius]

Discussing the interactions between formations / detachments is fine in this forum, but if you want to discuss actual list content and viability, then it needs to be done in the Army List sub-forum (http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/forum/191-adeptus-mechanicus-army-lists/).

I am aware. This thread is about interactions and the lists are simply the results of certsin considerations and visual examples. Nothing here is finished enough to be put in Army Lists just yet.

[Targetlock]

shame for the white dwarf war convocation, it is the battle maniple formation not the normal skitarii maniple, would have preferred more flexible options than one of each skitarii units. but still a pretty great formation if you can get the required units. my formations im thinking of using:

 

Skitarri Maniple + Ironstrider Cavaliers + Cohort Cybernetica or some kind of variation :) or drop the cavaliers and take the elimination maniple.

[Nehekhare]

shame for the white dwarf war convocation, it is the battle maniple formation not the normal skitarii maniple, would have preferred more flexible options than one of each skitarii units.

 

Indeed. This would be all it takes to combine both codices into one, as it should have been.

 

Let's hope FW makes a viably army out of this mess with IA14.

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, I had a look at this so-called 'mess' and I will be doing my first game with Cult + Skitarii + IK the coming Wednesday. It will be 1850 points. Have a look:

Hidden Content

Battle Congregation

Magos - Conversion Field, Scryerskull

 

3 Breachers - Torsion Cannon/Arc Claw

3 Breachers - Torsion Cannon/Arc Claw

 

4 Destroyers - Grav Cannons/Phosphor Blasters

 

Skitarii Maniple

10 Vanguard - 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex, Refractor Field

10 Vanguard - 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex, Refractor Field

10 Vanguard - 3 Arc Rifles, Omnispex, Refractor Field

 

Onager - Icarus, Stubber

Onager - Icarus, Stubber

 

Oathsworn Detachments

Imperial Knight Crusader - Thermal Cannon/Gatling/Ironstorm Missiles

 

1850pts

 

This is mostly to test out different things, but it is not randomly put together. I did actually spend some time thinking about it.

The Vanguard are there to pile wounds on anything with a T value and kill AV. They are the buffer unit that can tackle just about anything.

Onagers will keep the skies clear as well as tackle skimmers. If I know I will not face flyers or skimmers, I will instead fit them out with Neutron/Stubber.

The Crusader is pure fire-support. He will not advance further than the mid-field and shoot whatever is opportune. I wanted to test out the Crusader as it is a fairly unique Knight. I think this one will fit in well with this list, seeing as I do not have any aggressive elements and I am mostly concerned with my own table half.

The Grav Destroyers are there to fulfill my need for AP2 and killing big killy units fast. The Breachers are suicide units. Fairly cheap, they can advance and annoy the enemy. Torsion guns are included to put more pressure on 2+ or 3+ save MC and to threaten those pesky tanking characters. I went with Breachers because of the 3+ save.

The Magos is what holds this army together and makes it work (hopefully). The Scryerskull makes Torsion Cannons are very legitimate threat to anything but AV14 and allows Onagers to down flyers and skimmers with impunity. He himself has a 2+/4++/5+ FnP to tank for the Destroyers, seeing as they are a high value target. He can also repair himself, the Destroyers and the IK. One of the most amazing characters in the entire game if you ask me. So much utility.

If I have the first turn, I can also deploy him separately from the Destroyers (and pray I do not get seized on) to get the medium effect Canticles on T1, either for more dakka or (most likely) for the Shrouded effect.

 

Some may notice that this setup is very close to the WD Formation. I will try out that one as well in due time ;)

[Scurvydog]

Well that list will murder vehicles, but looks extremely vulnerable to being overrun by hordes. Maybe it is just your meta but I would never dedicate 250 points on just skyfire onagers, but I play a lot against demonkin and orkz though. Cool of your opponent if he just lets you change loadout on the onagers if not using flyers though :p

 

Every single unit is equipped for killing vehicles, which might lead to a lot of redundancy, getting a battlecannon on the knight might be a way to go, since breachers is already a lot of points more or less dedicated to taking out those vehicles.

[Frater Cornelius]

You have a point. Lets analyse it.

 

Vanguard are literally anti-everything. But first and foremost, they are anti Toughness. Even with the Arc Rifle they murder any T value. 6 Arc shots are about the same as 9 Rad shots against T5 and they have similar performance against T4 and T6. They just have the added bonus of being able to combat AV. However, with only 3 shots at 24" I will need some dedicated answer to AV for T1. Basically, Vanguard are anti-everything.

 

The Grav unit is there to murder high profile units like Grav Bike Stars, Wolf Stars or Cent Draigo Stars. I am even considering to give the Magos the Cognis Relic to deal with Invisible units as well.

 

The Melta on the Crusader is less for hunting tanks and more to deal with units with a 2+ tank upfront, like the aforementioned Death Stars. However, I have deduced that the worst match up for me would be the Green Tide Formation with Mek Gun spam, so getting the Battle Cannon is valid.

 

Icarus is pretty expensive. Also, seeing as massed Vanguard fire and Cognis Grav do stand a decent chance of killing flying stuff and since air units are less common now, I might play Neutron or Eradicator. However, Icarus still kills skimmers but it is worth it over the two blast variants?

 

This leaves us with the Breachers as the wild card. If I drop the Skull for Cognis, I will not take Torsion. This leaves me with the question, whether I will get more mileage from 2 units of 3 Arc, Plasma Cannon or Grav Cannon dudes. Probably Arc.

 

Thoughts?

[Charlo]

New formation combining cult and Skitarii is on the Web store, behind a £497.50 paygate no less.

 

The description mentions canticles, doctrina, shielding, focused firepower and interestingly uses the phrase "on anyone who comes near"

 

I can see this being for using canticles on Skitarii or possibly even doctrina on Admech? The Onagers or Kastellan could give cover/ reflector shields to other nearby units?

 

Also the nearby thing could be interpreted as interceptor or some boosted overwatch.

 

Don't have the resources to total the points up but it's got quite a lot.

 

http://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Cohort-Mechanicus-Rules-Bundle

[Scurvydog]

Breachers is definately a unit I want to test, they are in a funny spot and I am trying to imagine scenarios with them taking their points worth, especially outside their interesting formation.

Arc is always useful whole torsion depends a lot on your enemy, but I see their potential for scaring the pants of both MCs and vehicles, while arc is far less a threat vs anything but vehicles and low save units. For pure testing I will start with torsions to see how they do, arc is a rather safe but maybe less interesting and flexible, though not by a large margin.

 

Array onagers are fun times vs skimmer heavy armies (dark eldar the most), but maybe just 1 as a base if you need a set campaign/tourny list.

 

Not sure how many psykers with invis you meet, otherwise it might be a bit of a waste on backline destroyers with grav, since grav is sort of meh vs flyers, only doing a glance on a 6. Breachers deep striking with a dominus with cognis havimg counter charge is a bit more fun perhaps? Then they are far more dangerous to assault and their weapons are a threat to flyers. The formation requires a bit different list though.

 

Vanguards are always good, if you go arc on breachers I would try to give some guards plasma culverins, if you go torsion, stick with arc on vanguards (cheaper that way too)

 

I would very much like to see the list in action, it could cripple the enemy with especially a solid T2, as long as the servitors don't whiff top badly with their less than enhanced ballistic skill. Guess they got better though if they were once equal to AM conscripts ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Well, you are assuming that I will target vehicles with Vanguard, which is wrong. Despite Arc, their main target is anything wirh T. The Arc is the contingency plan. Arc Breachers will always be the first ones shooting at AV.

Same with Cognis Grav. Their first target will always be MCs or elite units. At least in tournament play, if an army can get reliable invisibility, it will do so. Since I am basing my AV hunting on Haywire, I better take Cognis. 30 Grav shots from 5 Destroyers will do 12 hits and 2 Grav effects, meaning a dead flyer. That alone will force a jink, which is all it takes to take a flyer out of the game for a turn.

 

I consider Cult and Skits an alpha strike army that relies on redundancy, so any forced reserves like the Formation are a no-go for me.

 

As for Arc Breachers, I think that sometimes taking a somewhat weaker gun can net you more mileage. Grav Destroyers are less survivable and more threatening as well as an easy target. Arc Breachers have a better save and are regarded as less threatening, thus they might have more time to go unnoticed and deal more damage as a result.

 

Anyway, in the list above I will substitute Icarus with Neutron, get Cognis Relic instead of Skull, take Arc Breachers instead of Torsion and shift a few points around to get in a fifth Destroyer. That is the plan right now.