Slips Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I'm not sure, but I am guessing that that's where a lot of the second founding colours came from. Well, since I cant scour the pages for the info, is there any reference on a Chapter using a Coiled Serpent as their Heraldry? ...I'm hoping really hard for an Iron Snakes reference here. If it makes you feel any better... the Destroyer marine has Terran markings and looks a lot like it could be a Unification-era scheme. Hes also in Mk II armor. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055488 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I don't know, I'm only about halfway through the UM bit. Sorry! And it says their unification scheme (well, just after the unification, they weren't actually that involved in the unification) is just storm grey and gunmetal, and then additional livery on a company by company basis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055490 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 I don't know, I'm only about halfway through the UM bit. Sorry! Eh, dont rush. If anything I'll savor the moment myself when my copy arrives. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055491 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Well, considering that their Chapter names are pre-"Ultramarines," and these Chapters are, I think, described as having uniquely colored pauldrons post-"Ultramarines," I imagine their pre-"Ultramarines" look was roughly the same, just storm grey rather than ultramarine blue. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055499 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Well, considering that their Chapter names are pre-"Ultramarines," and these Chapters are, I think, described as having uniquely colored pauldrons post-"Ultramarines," I imagine their pre-"Ultramarines" look was roughly the same, just storm grey rather than ultramarine blue. The livery on top of the storm grey was definitely pre Ultramarines. If that's what you meant. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055509 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 They were pink with rainbow striped shoulder pads. O_O I resemble that remark. :P So wait, what's this about the XIII Legion not being Unification era? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055523 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 They didn't have a huge involvement in the unification, unless I read something wrong. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055543 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stofficus Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The Ultras weren't deployed at all Unification era in Tempest - first battle honour being Luna. It also mentions that their original "unique" heraldry was often in reflection of battle and allied forces - in particular troops fighting alongside Night Lords adopted dark blue helms and such as an example. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055572 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Does the Unification just refer to the battle on earth, or is it the whole Sol system? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 That's weird since Kurze was found after Guilliman Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Technically the whole system, but this mention might refer to Terra only. Fire Golem: I was referring to their lack of a pre-Primarch color image, that enough is described for us to imagine what they looked like. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055599 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Does the Unification just refer to the battle on earth, or is it the whole Sol system? Technically, the Great Crusade didn't start until Imperial forces left Sol, so I'f say it refers to the campaign for Terra and Sol. Edit - Damnit Conn! :lol: Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055603 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Totem Pole Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Evocatii (new recruits, garisson duties) As in - they were the new recruits, or they were responsible for training new recruits? Couse from reading ADB's "Betrayer", I got the impression that Evocatii were Ultras elite, veteran formation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Technically the whole system, but this mention might refer to Terra only. Fire Golem: I was referring to their lack of a pre-Primarch color image, that enough is described for us to imagine what they looked like. Does the Unification just refer to the battle on earth, or is it the whole Sol system? Technically, the Great Crusade didn't start until Imperial forces left Sol, so I'f say it refers to the campaign for Terra and Sol. Edit - Damnit Conn! :lol: @Conn; sorry then I misunderstood what you meant. And thanks guys, I wasn't sure. From how I read it they didn't take place in the unification of Terra, but they were part of the Pacification of Luna so I'm guessing they were part of the larger unification of the Sol system. Their geneseed was used to basically calm down some of the terrans who were deemed prone to revolt after the unification. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055623 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Unification was the Sol system (Kupiter Belt and all), ending with the death of the xenos clockwork-world at the edge of the System, which was also the first action of The Great Crusade. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055625 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 That's weird since Kurze was found after Guilliman Well I'm guessing either the NL were blue befor Curze (I'm not sure what colour they were before Curze actually) or the blue gauntlets weren't anything to do with the VIIIth; they also had black helms after that campaign which seems fairly unconnected to the VIIIth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055629 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The Night Lords were blue beforehand, they just were not Night Lord Blue. But then, the XIII might not have been Ultramarines Blue back then either, so the blue gauntlets would have been a visible distinction. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055632 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Rohr Posted May 23, 2015 Author Share Posted May 23, 2015 Does it say anything about Dorn and Guilliman being close? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055635 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kol Saresk Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Apologies. Already addressed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The Night Lords were blue beforehand, they just were not Night Lord Blue. But then, the XIII might not have been Ultramarines Blue back then either, so the blue gauntlets would have been a visible distinction. The XIII weren't blue then. They were grey and gunmetal, with additional livery on a company by company basis. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055648 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conn Eremon Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 The Night Lords were blue beforehand, they just were not Night Lord Blue. But then, the XIII might not have been Ultramarines Blue back then either, so the blue gauntlets would have been a visible distinction. The XIII weren't blue then. They were grey and gunmetal, with additional livery on a company by company basis. Sorry, the "might not have" was because I haven't actually read it myself yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055662 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 no need to apologise :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055681 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aqui Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 They were pink with rainbow striped shoulder pads. O_O Excuse me! BLUE with Rainbow striped shoulder pads, thank you so very much! But seriously, other than the ones already mentioned in this and other topics, are there any other allusions or hints to eventual Second Founding UM Chapters? Inceptors? Genesis Chapter? Rainbow Warriors? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 *sigh* I was hoping that Forge World would do away with Abnett's 10k Chapters. As far as I am concerned, there should be 250 Chapters, not 25. It feels like a legitimization of the 'apocrypha,' whose original falseness should be made more apparent, not less. It's mostly because of the old fan reliance on a piece of fluff that that the setting itself views as false or inaccurate, but still. What piece of fluff? That the ultramarines legion was devided into 24 chapters after the scouring? That was never "false", though. Oh, it was described in more ambiguous terms than the successors of other chapters. But that the imperial fists were divided into exactly three chapters has not been discribed with any ambiguity. Neither was it ambiguous that a legion was about ten thousand strong. The iron warriors were described as consisting of 11 grand companies of 1000 men. The salamanders, as a small legion, had seven grand companies. The ultramarines were said to at some point during the scouring have accounted for more than half of the marines in the field, which if you added all the other explicitely listed (non ambiguously) successor chapters together would have been somewhere around 25,000. Everything checks out with 24 second founding chapters for the ultramarines. Ah, but maybe it really was 25, or 26, since, you know, the ancient sources were not entirely comprehensive. And wouldn't you know, now that black library has increased the size of space marine legions tenfold, from 10,000 to 100,000, the ultramarines are now said to have been 250,000 strong. Pretty much ten times of their size after the scouring in the older lore. (iirc the current codex space marines still speaks of 10,000 strong legions, though.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055720 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted May 23, 2015 Share Posted May 23, 2015 Evocatii (new recruits, garisson duties) As in - they were the new recruits, or they were responsible for training new recruits? Couse from reading ADB's "Betrayer", I got the impression that Evocatii were Ultras elite, veteran formation. Especially considering the Roman Evocati were the most veteran troops in the army. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308046-ultramarines-organization/page/2/#findComment-4055724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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