Adeptus Mechanicus best used as Allies?

[N1SB]

This is really something I've been wondering about, but I'm afraid it's just personal bias:

 

 

Is Adeptus Mechanius (Skitarii, Cult Mechanicus, even Imperial Knights) best used as Allies?

 

 

Just a disclaimer, being an Ally does not necessarily mean taking a smaller amount of points, only that you choose another codex to be the Primary Detachment.  Here are the reasons I ask:

 

 

1.) No good Objective Secured options - The Kataphron Battle Servitors are slow, without Dedicated Transports.  The Skitarii Troops are a little more mobile, but due to how their Detachment works, they're not a Combined Arms Detachment and thus can't get Objective Secured.  My friends and I were predicting (in retrospect, merely wish-listing) that somehow a Skitarii force could "borrow" the Tech Priest Dominus HQ from the Cult Mechanicus codex to make it CAD, but that doesn't seem to have happened.  Without good ObSec options, it makes me want to look at other Imperium armies to be the Primary Detachment.

 

 

2.) Really interesting Formations - I've also noticed there's so much more discussion on Ad Mech formations or similar mechanics.  Normally, we discuss the units individually and we've seen articles where people rate each type like Competitive, Semi-Competitive, Uncompetitive, etc.  IMHO this is the 1st time where we talked more about possible Formations than the units themselves.  It's not that the units are bad, but it seems with Ad Mech we look at a broader picture, seeing different units as parts of a larger machine.

 

 

3.) Some of the Troops actually look like Heavy Support options - namely the Kataphron Battle Servitors.  A friend had a very interesting reaction when seeing their rules; he assumed they were Heavy Support because of their Heavy Grav Cannons on a relatively squishy Destroyer.  When I pointed they were in fact Troops, he respectfully quipped it's like they got put in the wrong slot, but that's great as it's easier to fit them in as an Ally.  For example, previously players chose Imperial Guard as Allies for their tanks, but it'd like they had to pay "tax" in the form of a HQ and a Veteran Squad Troop just to get 1 tank squad.  The Cult Mechanicus codex seems to deliberately categorise things just to give other armies more ways to get bigger guns.

 

 

4.) There is a precedent for an Allies codex - the Inquisition codex is a much clearer case of something designed to be Allies, as it basically has a special type of Detachment and no Troops choices.  While that is a mini-supplement, it is a precedent.

 

 

This is not meant to dissuade or contradict players who want to play a pure Cult Mech army, but I'm just wondering if I'm missing something.  I actually think it's fitting for Ad Mech to be in a support role, so I'm wondering if my thinking's already skewed that way, so I'm merely seeing what I want to see.  Just curious what you guys think please.

[Frater Cornelius]

1) Obj.Sec. is highly overrated. It can matter when you are playing a dedicated OS list, like SW + IG Pod Troops spam, but beyond that, you might as well shoot units off objectives. Like with most lists, you have to build your army around a certain strategy, which includes OS. But throwing it in there just like that will do you no good and you as well take a specialized detachment. The loss of OS isn't something that bothers me as a competitive player who does not run dedicated OS lists (because they are too damn boring to play :D).

 

2) The Formations are great, but Skitarii and AdMech lists can benefit from them just as much as others do. This makes them good allies, but not dedicated allies.

 

3) Mono-Cult is unlikely to be competitive. Cult either needs an allied force like IG to provide the bodies or be allied into an existing force like Skits. Grey Knights are in the same camp, used as part of an existing force. However, both Cult and GK are best run as your Primary and benefit from cheap bodies as allies, like Skitarii and IG (or SM allies for Death Star in case of GK), because they have very tough Warlords who do not give up Slay the Warlord as easily as some T3 bloke stuck in a unit.

 

Of cause both Skits and Cult can be made great allies, just as they can be made into great primary detachment. That is a thing within the Imperium. Cult is almost always preferred as Primary unless playing SM, because their Warlord is so though. However, given how well AdMech and Skits work together, they can be played as a pure army just as well as Cult + X. This does not make them into dedicated allies like INQ, just easier to ally in because their detachments have rather minimalistic compulsory choices and great Formations.

[mmimzie]

As said above objective secured seems to be very over rated. It was introduced as a way to run battleforged armies codexs that didn't have detachments or formation yet.

 

Many armys just run thier own special flower detachment and formation because the bonuses fit thier army and units better. 

 

I feel that skits not having an HQ make folks think they have to ally with some one to have that HQ power sauce or something. Skits are strong ran mono quite fine.

 

Cult looks pretty tough to run mono, and i'm building my army as mono cult :P. Cult lacks reliable anti air and a good way to deal with horde. Though Cohort cybernetica can pretty much deathstar its way through anything from the looks of it.

 

I do disagree with immerstrum that cult needs bodies. I mean a 150 unit of skits is gonna take up the same space at a unit of kataphron. It's not about bodies. It's about having something in the enemies side of the board that can stick around and claim the objectives that you've so kindly cleansed on enemy forces. More bodies doesn't really do you any favors. It's board position. Which is why i'm gonna take the deep strike formation and the kastelan formation can call it an army.

 

Frontline game has bost a review and i've even seen thier battle reports where mono skit is steam rolling just about anything and everything. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Hm. I am not one to admit defeat easily, but after looking up the Frontline Gaming info you gave me, I feel the need to re-evaluate the my opinion and play-style of Skits and proxy some unit to try them out. Check out this article. That was the one that made me think a bit. Maybe I do give the Infiltrators a chance after all :P

The point I was to re-evaluate is allies. With Skitarii, you have no need for offensive allies. You are capable of doing all the heavy-lifting yourself. What you need is utility.

[mmimzie]

Yeah the infiltrators aren't that bad, and can be very good. The problem is they are very tough to play and very frail. They put out tons of good close range shooting, but very easily get popped.

 

one thing I wanted to point out... How good is an onager for anti air defense. In all the games I've seen in person and around the web; an anti air onager will be quickly dispatched before the oppent brings his fliers onto the table. The 4+ save helps slow this if you bring it in a big unit, but then the whole unit is tied up into having to shoot one thing?? Eh just seems kind of meh.

 

Anyway I do agree mono cult might be tough due to lack of mobility, but I think deep striking breachers followed by kastelan formation would solve your problems. The breachers can bring anti MC and anti tank. The domi with the breacher could bring cognis buff. If you go against enemy mech air the cognis domi can go with the anti tank breachers or against MC go with the MC breachers. I think that list would be a decent argument to a strong mono cult list

[Targetlock]

Yeah the infiltrators aren't that bad, and can be very good. The problem is they are very tough to play and very frail. They put out tons of good close range shooting, but very easily get popped.

one thing I wanted to point out... How good is an onager for anti air defense. In all the games I've seen in person and around the web; an anti air onager will be quickly dispatched before the oppent brings his fliers onto the table. The 4+ save helps slow this if you bring it in a big unit, but then the whole unit is tied up into having to shoot one thing?? Eh just seems kind of meh.

Anyway I do agree mono cult might be tough due to lack of mobility, but I think deep striking breachers followed by kastelan formation would solve your problems. The breachers can bring anti MC and anti tank. The domi with the breacher could bring cognis buff. If you go against enemy mech air the cognis domi can go with the anti tank breachers or against MC go with the MC breachers. I think that list would be a decent argument to a strong mono cult list

In my first and only Skitarii game which i sadly lost, the infiltrators were my star unit against my DE opponent, the amount of hits and shots, the mobility led them to being a royal pain for the DE, killed two troop units and urien rakarth in melee (well he fled, so i caught him and cattleprodded him to death)

My force is mainly going to be Skitarii with the cult units i like added in and a dominus hq

[Marshal Ommadon]

Depending on how much points you play just bring a War Convocation!  I think between Codex:  Skitarii and Codex:  Cult Mechanicus there is absolutely no reason these armies cannot stand on there own! 

 

Hell I'd only contemplate allying to get an Assassin or Knight anyway.  I have no need to ally with Marines, AM, or any other of those flesh-bags!  Besides flesh is weak and those armies don't understand the power of knowledge!!!!!!