Skitarii and Mechanicum HARD DATA review

[Vel'Cona]

 

Tbh, I would just give the guns a special rule that makes them AP2 (or 3) when rolling a 6 to hit.

 

I like the sound of this.  It also plays into something of the AdMech theme where rolling high yields additional effects (burst damage, maybe?).  Vanguard, Ruststalkers and Dragoons are other examples of this theme throughout the list.

[Tiger9gamer]

So, I played a long game against a vicious gladius full company with so many drop pods and MSU along with a crusader knight. Holy Crap I got wrecked but I only lost with 1 point (was playing an HH mission with regular 40k, sort of like king of the hill) and I only have a few things to note (I had such bad luck that armor saves and 2+ wound rolls that not a lot would be worth thinking about)

 

Cohort Cybernetica- I would labe this game is my first true failure with this squad. Turn 1 saw devastators and the knight murder 2 robots completely without my being able to save anything, and do to having more T4 models in the squad than bots, the entire squad went to T4. Biiiiig pain in the arse. it ment that I had a robot die from bolters like a space marine. Also, screw the friggen 25 year extra marine with ID. That shouldn't be in the game. not for free. Free transports I understand, but something like that in a tactical squad shouldn't be for free.

 

Anyways, this squad spent more time in CC rather than shooting. I got the full power data imperatives so all the canticles were amazing, and would have hurt more if I stopped rolling 1's. They can still chop up marines really good, and I got lucky enough to get stuck in CCW a few times before they got shot in my opponent's turn. the full power canticles are still friggen awesome though. The Tech Priest dominus is also fairly good at bullying the smaller squads of space marines I was against, and ended up killing a catasphract terminator captain with his stub pistol.

 

Peltasts: First time I fielded them and my rolling saw all but 3 killed on turn 1. Still, those three guys managed to almost kill a 5 man tactical squad by themselves with the salvo shots.

[MoGuy]

 

 

Peltasts: First time I fielded them and my rolling saw all but 3 killed on turn 1. Still, those three guys managed to almost kill a 5 man tactical squad by themselves with the salvo shots.

 

Somewhat predictable. I think buying an Imperial Bunker for a 20 man-squad would be pretty sweet. Otherwise they'll die Turn 1 against any army that knows what these guys can do. They are a much more "juicy" target than our other units:

 

-Vanguards aren't as deadly

-Kastelan Robots are (under normal circumstances) way too tough and thus most opponents tend to kill other squads first before pouring enormous amounts of firepower into them

-Kataphron Servitors are also tougher to kill (being T5)

 

and so on. Everything in comparison to the Peltasts is either more difficult to kill or not as dangerous.

 

I would advice to put a Dominus in the squad to tank shots with his 2+/4++.

[Vel'Cona]

 

I would advice to put a Dominus in the squad to tank shots with his 2+/4++.

 

Or ally in a DW character (Librarian?) with the Dominus Aegis for a sweet, sweet 4++, assuming you don't move them around a bunch.

[Charlo]

I'm just waiting to see how many 30k units get ported over with Fires of Cyraxus... Will be a big influence on my purchases if I can use one army for 40/30k...!

[gmaleron]

I'm just waiting to see how many 30k units get ported over with Fires of Cyraxus... Will be a big influence on my purchases if I can use one army for 40/30k...!

I agree, right now I have roughly 2k of 40k Skitarii and 1k of the Peltasts and Hoplites. Also in the process of currently collecting 2k of 40k Cult Mechanicus with a Knight, depending on how much is implemented I may be looking at anywhere between 7500-10k points of Adeptus Mechanicus!

[Vel'Cona]

I agree, right now I have roughly 2k of 40k Skitarii and 1k of the Peltasts and Hoplites. Also in the process of currently collecting 2k of 40k Cult Mechanicus with a Knight, depending on how much is implemented I may be looking at anywhere between 7500-10k points of Adeptus Mechanicus!

If nothing else, your dedication pleases the Omnissiah!

[Charlo]

I've got  some Skits and Cult - enough for a solid 1500 or so - but if the 30k stuff opened to me freely I'd really be tempted by some sort of Myrmidon Cult....

[SydonianDragoon404]

I have a game against genestealer cult coming up soon, 2000 points and no gloves. I'm bring the War Convocation. Any tips guys? I have played against them before in a small way, a team game, but never 1v1. 

[Vel'Cona]

Don't lean too much on the IK, he can get swamped by "hidden fist" Acolytes pretty easily.  Even Purestrains can glance him to death given enough time.  Instead, screen him with your best Infantry and hope for solid Overwatch.

 

You'll need SOMETHING that can repulse assaults, so don't skimp on the Sicarians!  GC are fragile but they attack fast and hit hard, and even Neophyte Hybrids are decent enough to give your Skitarii a hard time.  A decked-out unit of Ruststalkers can really mess up their fast assault units, though they'll still have a hard time with Purestrains.

 

Leaving GC units partially-dead means they're going to Return to the Shadows/Numbers Beyond Counting with often a decent portion of their strength returned.  Therefore, focus fire until a unit is wiped out.  This is important in ANY 40k game but with GC it's absolutely essential.

 

Don't get too distracted by their support units.  Leman Russ are scary and the Goliaths look mean, but they're actually not that bad and it's the assault units you should be giving the majority of your attention to.

 

Since you can't counter the psychic phase at all, you'll be at the mercy of the devastatingly powerful Broodmind discipline most times which means he'll be making free units and mind controlling your powerful shooting units with ease; keep this in mind and plan to keep your infantry units out of gun range with each other if possible.  As for the summoning, there's not much you can do but try to kill the Psykers as fast as possible; since they're very tough to snipe out, you'll either need good luck on your Rangers Precision Shots or to wipe out the Pysker's entire squad.  Once again, focus, destroy the target, then move on to the next.  You may want to consider sliding a Culexus Assassin in specifically to counter the psychic threat!

[SydonianDragoon404]

Good stuff Vel'Cona, that's the type of thing I was looking for. 

 

Here's the list I'm planning on using. I have no idea what I am up against. Very possible a GSC/Tyranid list. 

 

War Convocation

Cult Mech Battle Congregation:

Dominus- Erad Beamer, Macrostubber, Conversion field, The Scryerskull Perspecitatus, etc.

2x Grav Kataphron Squads. This is really still our best option despite the low armor on GSC. Will be helpful against any Tyranid MCs.

 

Skitarii Battle Maniple:

2x Sydonian Dragoons- Taser Lances and Phosphor

Onager Dunecrawler- Neutron Laser + Stubbers and all equipment. *I'm not sure about this choice in terms of loadout.

Sicarian Infiltrators- Taser goads + Space uzis. Princeps has equipment and the Phase Taser. 

Sicarian RustStalkers- Chordclaw + Razors. Princeps has equipment and the Omniscient mask.

Skitarii Rangers- 10 man squad 3x Arc Rifles, all relevant equipment. Alpha has Power Sword + Arkan's Divinator. This is in case I meet Russes or Trucks.

Skitarii Vanguard- 10 man squad 3x Plasma, all relevant equipment. Alpha has Power Sword + Pater Radium. Standard stuff.

 

Imperial Knight Detachment:

Imperial Knight Crusader- Gatling, Battle Cannon, Missile Launcher. 

 

Inquisitorial Detachment:

Inquisitor Coteaz

 

Skitarii Maniple:

2x bare squads of Vanguard

Secutarii Peltasts- 15 man squad. Alpha has an Omnispex.

 

Here's what I'm thinking. I took Coteaz for some kind of psychic phase presence and for his seize abilities. One of the big things on paper against GSC is getting seized on would be devastating, but inversely, seizing could win you the game on its own it would seem. Also, if any of his units Return to the Shadows, Coteaz's ability will work on them as they are arriving from Reserves, right? I took the extra Skitarii Maniple for two reasons, taking objectives will be important as it will be a Maelstrom game, I will need some cheap units to go get those objectives. I also think Secutarii Peltasts will be an extremely good unit against GSC. 

 

I only took 1 Imperial Knight because I think in terms of fighting GSC they are actually a detriment. Rending cares not for my AV, nor does a Biomancy Patriarch, and Imperial Knights cannot overwatch. The more units I have overwatching, the better. 1 Imperial Knight as fire support should be fine. I don't think my Paladin would help me in this case. 

 

Main thing I am torn about is the loadout for my Onager. I am actually wondering if the Eradication Blaster (the standard gun, large blast that changes at different ranges) would be the best option here. If he takes flyrants then yes, the Icarus array will be nice, but then again I can always simply use Arkan's Divinator to give a chunk of my army Skyfire instead. I plan to keep my stand-by choice- the Neutron Laser, in case I meet Leman Russ tanks and other armor. The stubbers will be nice against the infantry regardless. 

 

In terms of strategy on the field, I am thinking I may end up using Benediction of Omniscience (the canticle to re-roll shooting) twice rather than Shroudpsalm. I may not end up using Shroudpsalm at all. His rolls on the Cult Ambush table will dictate a lot of my use of Canticles and Doctrina Imperatives. Deployment will be key. Wish me luck fellow Magi, Princeps, and Alphas. May the Omnissiah guide me to cold, logical victory. 

[gmaleron]

I am curious if anyone here has had experience facing the new Genestealer Cults? I personally feel that their "Ambush" Mechanic is a big meta gamechanger, for those who are unfamiliar for what it does you roll for every unit that is being held in Reserve (they have to start on the table if not taken in a Formation):

 

CULT AMBUSH ROLL CHART:

1. Cult Reinforcements: Unit shows up from your table edge as normal. Possibly the worst result unless you planned to move them to the backfield anyway.

2. Encircling the Foe: Unit Outflanks, appearing from a random side edge.

3. Lying in Wait: Place the unit anywhere on the table more than 9" away from an enemy, or 6" if that unit can't see you.

4. A Perfect Ambush: Place the unit anywhere on the table more than 6" away from an enemy. Full Stop.

5. A Deadly Trap: Same as above, but your unit may immediately make an out of turn shooting attack with the pinning rule. If they have no guns, they get a free run move - unfortunately Acolyte Hybrids have to shoot with their pistols.

 

6. They Came From Below: Place the unit anywhere more than 3" away from an enemy, you may charge the turn you arrive.

 

​​I bolded the sections of the last two to highlight how dangerous these are. I have yet to face them with my Skitarii as they are being painted but they absolutely wrecked my poor IG tank army quite badly. One investment I am definitely thinking of making is a Void Shield Generator to help protect me somewhat from the mass of shooting they can potentially get.

[Charlo]

Kataphron with Grav and Cognis Flamers.

 

Should help out a tad.

 

Also giving Katellan's some flamers is great as they get torrent and can straight up wipe units of GSC.

[gmaleron]

Kataphron with Grav and Cognis Flamers.

 

Should help out a tad.

 

Also giving Katellan's some flamers is great as they get torrent and can straight up wipe units of GSC.

 

Maybe in regards to if they roll a 6 to charge, to be honest being able to shoot twice at potentially two different targets worries me a lot more (if they roll a 5). Weight of fire will wreck any Kataphrons or Skitarrii foot units very quickly, hence why I think the Void Shield Generator is a must or maybe even some other Fortification might be worth investing in. A lot of this will be solved if we get APC's of some kind so here is hoping.

[Tyriks]

Kataphron with Grav and Cognis Flamers.

 

Should help out a tad.

 

Also giving Katellan's some flamers is great as they get torrent and can straight up wipe units of GSC.

Wouldn't plasmaphrons be a little more potent here? Large numbers, low armor is a plasma blast dream come true. Not speaking from experience as I have yet to play GSC but it looks awesome on paper.

[Castellan Cato]

 

Kataphron with Grav and Cognis Flamers.

 

Should help out a tad.

 

Also giving Katellan's some flamers is great as they get torrent and can straight up wipe units of GSC.

 

Maybe in regards to if they roll a 6 to charge, to be honest being able to shoot twice at potentially two different targets worries me a lot more (if they roll a 5). Weight of fire will wreck any Kataphrons or Skitarrii foot units very quickly, hence why I think the Void Shield Generator is a must or maybe even some other Fortification might be worth investing in. A lot of this will be solved if we get APC's of some kind so here is hoping.

Shooting twice sounds scary, but from the chatter I've seen, the GSC special weapons are even more prohibively expensive than ours. And then it's just lasguns. So it depends a lot on your opponent, but if they've dumped a bunch of points it's giving themselves short range lascannons, you're even more ahead on points efficiency.

 

*edit* I missed the weight of fire part. Yo've still got your 4+ and baby FNP.

[gmaleron]

[shooting twice sounds scary, but from the chatter I've seen, the GSC special weapons are even more prohibively expensive than ours. And then it's just lasguns. So it depends a lot on your opponent, but if they've dumped a bunch of points it's giving themselves short range lascannons, you're even more ahead on points efficiency.

*edit* I missed the weight of fire part. Yo've still got your 4+ and baby FNP.

It's true we still have our save and we do get FNP but potentially having multiple squads getting two shooting chances apiece especially against a mechanicum army that already has a low model count to me just seems like a recipe for disaster.

[MoGuy]

Between Vanguards, Peltasts and Hoplites the Ad Mech actually has a quite high bodycount (or the Skitarii portion at least). 3 Squads of 10 Vanguards plus one or two Squads of Peltasts/Hoplites gives you 40 to 50 models alone. That's a lot!

[gmaleron]

Yes that is a lot of models but Genestealer Cults guaranteed can Spam alot more. I believe there standard guys with guns are the same cost as Guardsmen

[Vel'Cona]

Yes that is a lot of models but Genestealer Cults guaranteed can Spam alot more. I believe there standard guys with guns are the same cost as Guardsmen

 

Yup.  But the really scary thing noone seems to be talking about are the Acolytes.  They're like bargain Purestrain Genestealers in melee but can also shoot and load up on Hand Flamers.  They also have access to a variety of Power Fist-like melee weapons making them terrifying for MCs and vehicles of all sizes, as well as Demo Charges that they take take in multiples to suicide rush down priority targets.  Worst of all, they're CHEAP.  As in, less expensive than Vanguard (yes really).  One of the big tricks with them is the poor T3 and 5+ save; volume of fire is a must, as once they're in melee there's little the AdMech can do to turn them.  

 

On another topic, Wall of Death is HUGE for clearing GC models in general, so Cognis Flamers can be devastating, though honestly your best tool is probably hordes of Vanguard spamming Rad Carbine death.  Also, don't underestimate your WS boosting DI, as that jump to WS4 (or WS5 if the GC unit is running a Cult Icon) can help your Skitarii to tarpit just a bit longer in tough situations.

[Charlo]

So uhh yeah.

 

How about them Reactors. I know i'll be grabbing some.

[MoGuy]

 

 

Yes that is a lot of models but Genestealer Cults guaranteed can Spam alot more. I believe there standard guys with guns are the same cost as Guardsmen 

 

Ofc they can. Ad Mech is an elite army that can also somewhat spam its models. If you watch the miniwargaming bat reps you'll see that the GSC's biggest weakness is the ordinary bolter. Our Vanguards can just mulch through a whole squad per shooting phase and the Peltasts should be even more deadly. 

 

We also can't plan around the "what if they roll a 5 or 6 for their cult ambush table?". That's nothing we can influence and we can't really deny them their "Return to the shadows" since we have to be within 6" to do so, which is an easy charge for the Genestealers. My Dark Eldar could deny them all game long easily. Zipping around in fast transports and turboboosting their cheap jetbikes etc. 

 

But since the Ad Mech is pretty slow, we have to dictate where the fight happens. Recently I am looking more and more for ways to utilize the fortification slot. Genestealers hate flamers. Get the Promethium Pipelines, place it behind some Kataphron Destroyers with Flamers (behind them, because that way they can still make their flamers torrent weapons but don't have to use the Pipes as cover, thus not suffering the potential D6 hits). You can also buy some barbed wire with the pipes to slow down their infantry etc. 

 

You can also castle up in a corner to take away their ability to threaten your flanks. Close combat will be painful for us - but that isn't an inherent quality of the Genestealers. Every dedicatet CC unit is always tough for the Skitarii portion of our armies. Against the Genestealers I could actually see some Infiltrators do some work. They should be kept in your backline and once the GSC charges your units, the Infiltrators can counter-charge to help out.

[Charlo]

Using the right imperative to get the WS boost could be a super boon too, you'll sacrifice some Skitatii shooting but if you have Cult mech too then they can pick up the slack.

 

OH also, finally a really good use for:

 

ELECTRO PRIESTS!

 

The GSC come to you and the priests really do not give a crap about rending with 5++/ 5+FNP.

 

As soon as those Fulgurites wipe a unit you end up with a 3++/ 5+FNP S5 AP4 Fearless unit that causes ID on 6 to wound. The Corpuscarii also throw out so many dice that no amount od cheap bodies can save them.

 

You'll be striking last against the nasty stuff, sure, but whatever you hit, you hit hard and have re-rolls.

[SydonianDragoon404]

Had that game against Genestealer Cult today, 2000pts Maelstrom of War: Spoils of War. I brought the War Convocation and he brought a couple of CADs of GSC, 3 Flyrants, his GSC had 2 Magus, 2 blobs of 15 genestealers and a Patriarch in each. Lots of summoning. 

 

His dice were pretty damn cold. He rolled no 6s on the Cult Ambush table and rolled a 5 one time, on a unit where it really didn't matter. He got great rolls for his psychic powers, got summoning on both Magus, but it didn't end up mattering. Every time a summoned unit came on the board they wouldn't do much and then get mulched by glorious Martian dakka. I think my opponent was likely limited by the models he had available. 

 

Of course, since I was going first, the flyrants didn't last past turn 2 thanks to Arkhan's Divinator giving me a Skyfire Nexus objective and giving 3 or 4 powerful units skyfire. 

 

I didn't realize the ridiculous math behind a 15 man Secutarii Peltast Squad. 15 guys using the first firing mode- 24'' Salvo 2/4 (they are relentless) is 60 shots. 60 shots at strength 3, AP -, shred. That is a TON of dakka especially when you have Doctrina Imperatives active. Nothing can really stand up to that unless you have to wound it on sixes, and even then...dear god those guys are powerful. Putting Coteaz in that unit is like saying "screw you this flank is mine unless you summon something and a roll a 6. And even if you do, good look I'm behind 60 overwatch shots." 

[MoGuy]

Pretty much what I thought would happen. Mass-dakka are just the bane of the Cult's existence and if we are good at something then it is throwing buckets of dice at something until it goes away. ^^