Skitarii and Mechanicum HARD DATA review

[Vel'Cona]

Using the right imperative to get the WS boost could be a super boon too, you'll sacrifice some Skitatii shooting but if you have Cult mech too then they can pick up the slack.

OH also, finally a really good use for:

ELECTRO PRIESTS!

I hadn't even though of this! You know, they're such a joke in general but this is a serious argument for including Electro-Priests in the list. In particular Corpuscarii look excellent for dakka'ing down huge GSC hordes. The lack of a transport isn't a big deal when you're getting assaulted anyway!

Though I still wish they had Haywire (on their melee attacks, in the minimum) . . .

[SydonianDragoon404]

1500 point game against Tau today.

 

Enemy composition-

CAD

2 fire warrior squads in transports

1 commander with 10 marker drones

Shadowsun

 

Riptide Wing

2 with Ion/Fusion

1 with Gatling/Missile

 

Mechanicus Forces-

War Convocation, Knight Paladin, double Grav

 

Victory for cold, hard logic. Losses, minimal. 

 

This was my first game playing against riptide wing, and I was scared of it. I rolled the warlord trait to infiltrate 3 units plus my warlord and used it on my rangers, vanguard, and one squad of Kataphrons. It was for the most part, not relevant. My opponent was likely overconfident, his Riptides didn't move that far away from my Knight, I was in range to charge a Riptide with the Paladin "Spear of Sydonia" for a 9'' charge and made it. On the other side of the board his shooting became ineffectual from that point, and my army closed in as fast as possible and I was in his deployment zone by turn 2, in combat by turn 3. By that point the noose had closed and the Riptides could do nothing about a rampaging Paladin with a D sword. 

 

As is often said, when playing against Tau, be as aggressive as possible whilst still taking advantage of cover and firing ranges. Fusion blasters are 18'', remember that one. Close the noose, and the xeno will die. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

Using the right imperative to get the WS boost could be a super boon too, you'll sacrifice some Skitatii shooting but if you have Cult mech too then they can pick up the slack.

OH also, finally a really good use for:

ELECTRO PRIESTS!

I hadn't even though of this! You know, they're such a joke in general but this is a serious argument for including Electro-Priests in the list. In particular Corpuscarii look excellent for dakka'ing down huge GSC hordes. The lack of a transport isn't a big deal when you're getting assaulted anyway!

Though I still wish they had Haywire (on their melee attacks, in the minimum) . . .

Can't Vanguard do the trick for half the points ?

At the moment I am finishing my last 5 Fulgurite Priest so that I can field the formation... but just to tick it off. I do not expect anything good from it. They are just way to expensive for dying so easily.

[Vel'Cona]

Can't Vanguard do the trick for half the points ?

At the moment I am finishing my last 5 Fulgurite Priest so that I can field the formation... but just to tick it off. I do not expect anything good from it. They are just way to expensive for dying so easily.

You're probably right, I just really wanted an excuse to try them out. Guess I'll just have to keep waiting for the AdMech combined codex

Great win versus the forces of blue communism, SydonianDragoon404! The purity of the holy machines of the Omnissiah can overcome any obstacle!

[Charlo]

Okay so i'm looking at a War Convocation as something to build up to - as really all I'll need to buy is some Sicarans and the Start collecting box - I have everything else (oh and a Knight...)

 

Basic unit options seem very easy to work out (just give what you can where because its literally free).

 

Then we get to the Knight - what kind is best? I'm thinking maybe Thermal Cannon and Chainsword for D and Anit-Tank, though with re-rolls to hit from Canticles the gattling cannon could be amazing...

[Tyriks]

I have wanted to buy a knight for about a year and I keep putting it off because I can't decide how to build it.  The anti-horde options aren't that compelling, but the anti-AV options seem less beneficial since we have so much that can take out tanks.  I might just go with the melta anyway though since we have less reliable anti-MC and that could easily do both, and free up some other units to do something else (like swapping arc rifles for plasma on troops).  Or just build a crusader with both for versatility... Ugh, so many options!  

 

Questions to ask: do you need the chainsword?  If you play games with tons of super heavies, it seems like a good idea, but if not the Crusader might be your best bet.  It would offer a ton of flexibility and would only suffer (compared to other basic knights) in close combat with dedicated super heavy hunters, since it can still Stomp and kill stuff easily that way.  

[SydonianDragoon404]

At 1500 points, I always take the Paladin (battle cannon/chainsword). At 1850 I take a Crusader in addition to that paladin. For you guys that are intimidated by the Knight build, don't be. They are super fun and super easy to put together. Pieces of advice for Knights-

 

1) Don't put the armor plates on at first. Put all the mechanical stuff together, spray it silver, and leave the plates off. Paint the plates separately and then glue them on, it's super easy and it will look gorgeous. 

2) Knights are super easy to magnetize the weapon options for. I personally didn't magnetize to the extreme for mine, just my paladin to switch between the battle cannon and thermal cannon, as well as magnetizing the top carapace-mounted weapon. Magnetizing will give you the ability to not have to think so much about weapon options.

3) I always bring at least 1 reaper chainsword. You never know when you're going to run into Riptides, Wraithknights, Stormsurges, other Knights, Stompas, etc nowadays. I even one had a Paladin with a Reaper Chainsword kill a Tau Supremacy Armor (the warhound equivalent, the BIG one) in one close combat. Never underestimate the power of Strength D, and never forget the Stomps at Initiative 1. 

 

At medium points values like 1500, your mileage may vary depending on the enemy you face. My meta is pretty competitive, so the D sword has to come out to play no matter what.

[Terminus]

Electro Priests make bad-ass stand-ins for Sanctioned Battle Psykers.

[Vel'Cona]

I too wouldn't consider an IK without the Reaper Chainblade.  While the Crusader is tempting (especially with the help from War Convocation), the Warden probably gets the best benefit as he can take advantage of the melee buffs just as much as the ranged ones.  I'm also going to agree with SD404 that magnetizing the carapace weapon is an extremely good idea, as you won't always want one (ie. if you want to use the IK outside of the War Con), but when you do it can be a huge benefit.

[Tiger9gamer]

I too wouldn't consider an IK without the Reaper Chainblade.  While the Crusader is tempting (especially with the help from War Convocation), the Warden probably gets the best benefit as he can take advantage of the melee buffs just as much as the ranged ones.  I'm also going to agree with SD404 that magnetizing the carapace weapon is an extremely good idea, as you won't always want one (ie. if you want to use the IK outside of the War Con), but when you do it can be a huge benefit.

 

 

I dunno man, My armies have been ripped apart by Crusaders on a regular basis, so from  personal experience all those guns hurt Especially against my robots. 

[Charlo]

I suppose its the tradeoff.

 

Do you want to risk that D not getting into combat - or would you rather have the gattling/ Melta/ Battle cannon firing all game?

 

I suppose an advancing Knight has more tactical use too.

[Terminus]

Well, just as an example, we had a big game last weekend at 4000 points per side.  Archmagos Reductor had a choice to go after the Crusader or the Errant.  He crushed the Crusader in two rounds of combat, but ran from the Errant (thankfully I blinded it on Overwatch and it failed its charge for epic troll).

[Carlson793]

Question for those who have assembled/fielded them. I'm currently assembling my first AdMech Ironstrider, and I'm at the decision point. Fairly certain I'll be going the Dragoon route will be better than the Ironstrider route - I think I've already got enough strong shooting between Skitarii, Secutarii, and Cult Mech. My question is should I magnetize the right arm to swap between the lance and jezzail, or should I just stick to one or the other? Already planning on magnetizing the holstered serpenta so I have that option available. Or do I go whole hog and magnetize for Dragoon and Ironstrider?

[Tyriks]

I definitely prefer the lance. I built mine as a Lancer and tried the jezzail via proxy. It never really did anything. You have to sacrifice arguably our most capable close combat option for a mediocre shooting option, and I just don't think it's worth it.

[Vel'Cona]

I definitely prefer the lance. I built mine as a Lancer and tried the jezzail via proxy. It never really did anything. You have to sacrifice arguably our most capable close combat option for a mediocre shooting option, and I just don't think it's worth it.

 

Agreed.  Ironstrider solo/duos or full units of Dragoons seem to be the way to go.

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

Agreed.  Ironstrider solo/duos or full units of Dragoons seem to be the way to go.

 

 

I agree with Dragoon > Ironstrider, but not with full units of Dragoons. imho it is just the opposit. Some armys will easily overkill a single Dragoon. Let them do so instead of ltting them kill up to 6 of the chickens.

[Tyriks]

I do plan to buy one to be an Ironstrider, which I think is a far superior option if you want shooty. It has much better guns (radium is only good in bulk, and vanguard are a far more points efficient way to get them) and Precision Shots for 2 meltabombs, though you lose the 5+ cover (which is decent but also not necessary since you don't have to get close).

[DeStinyFiSh]

I do plan to buy one to be an Ironstrider, which I think is a far superior option if you want shooty. It has much better guns (radium is only good in bulk, and vanguard are a far more points efficient way to get them) and Precision Shots for 2 meltabombs, though you lose the 5+ cover (which is decent but also not necessary since you don't have to get close).

 

Well, it is 10 points extra, loss of the 5+ cover and loss of the CC lance.

Autocanon is only 2 shots with AP4 (S7 though). It is good to shoot at light AVs, but struggles against tougher AVs, MEQs and TEQs as well as hordes. For me the Dragoon is the clear winner here.

[gmaleron]

As someone who runs a large amount of both of Dragoons and Ironstriders almost exclusively here are some things I have learned that might be of use:

 

-I always run my Dragoons in units of x3, MSU enough to give your opponent problems (I have 12 total) with enough hitting power to take out even the scariest of targets. NEVER run them with the Jezzail, however if you have points give them all Phosphor Serpentas if you can. Have saved my butt more than once allowing me to reroll a charge or even getting a lucky wound or two softening up a tough target.

 

-Ironstriders I have only ever taken with Autocannons and I run them in pairs (I have six total so three units of x2 Ironstriders) as upgrading them with a Lascannon I feel is to expensive and somewhat redundant with all the Haywire you can bring. The Autocannons especially in pairs put out enough Firepower to help you with both infantry hordes and light to medium armor on top of being an emergency anti-air unit, cannot tell you how much the Space Marine Gladius Razorback spam players hate them at my FLGS.

 

Bottom line I feel both are valid options and personally perform best when you have them supporting each other. However if you're only looking to pick one I would go with the Dragoon, I have gotten a bit more mileage out of them.

[Tyriks]

 

I do plan to buy one to be an Ironstrider, which I think is a far superior option if you want shooty. It has much better guns (radium is only good in bulk, and vanguard are a far more points efficient way to get them) and Precision Shots for 2 meltabombs, though you lose the 5+ cover (which is decent but also not necessary since you don't have to get close).

 

 

Well, it is 10 points extra, loss of the 5+ cover and loss of the CC lance.

Autocanon is only 2 shots with AP4 (S7 though). It is good to shoot at light AVs, but struggles against tougher AVs, MEQs and TEQs as well as hordes. For me the Dragoon is the clear winner here.

You misunderstood. I was comparing it to the jezzail dragoon, which doesn't have the lance anyway.

[MoGuy]

Small report:

 

Played 1500 points Ad Mech vs. Grey Knights. My opponent requested my Forgeworld forces so I obliged, warning him that Ad Mech is very potent but he wanted to test his swords versus the followers of the Omnissiah.

 

He gave up Turn 4, without killing a single unit of mine. I would have guessed that at least my Skitarii will take some good losses, since those Incinerators with S6 AP4 would just toast them (same for Cleansing Flame etc.). But most of his units just scattered into misshap so I could focus-fire whatever else was on the table.

 

Highlights:

Two 5 man Vanguards with 2x2 Plasma Calivers destroyed his Nemesis Dreadknight Turn 1. 

 

A single Dragoon killed his Land Raider (it had 2 HP left and I managed to roll 2 6s even though I only hit it 4 times). It then proceeded to bind the 5-man Strike squad in CC and even win that fight! 

 

My Ruststalkers FINALLY did something! They charged his 5 Termis with Librarian. Along with the re-rolls from the Omniscient Mask my squishy assassins just murdered his Termis. So yeah, against 2+ armour the Ruststalkers seem to perform better than their Infiltrator brethren. 

 

Since I also started to collect a small GK force (to use the Deamonhunter formation from the Imperial Agents book) I have to say that the Grey Knights sadly are pretty weak. The NDK is awesome and the Interceptors are okay. But Terminators just suck. In general, I don't think I've ever played a game where Termis did something that would be worth their points. It is just waaay to easy to kill them with all the Grav/AP2 weapons most armies have. Would be nice if they got something like a 5+/4+ FNP that can't be taken away. And maybe be T5. That way they might even live long enough to reach close combat. Otherwise they feel like a waste of points. 

[DeStinyFiSh]

I am still waiting for my Ruststalkers to do something

How have yours been equipted?

[Vel'Cona]

I am still waiting for my Ruststalkers to do something

Infiltrators almost always do something in my experience.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I am still waiting for my Ruststalkers to do something

Infiltrators almost always do something in my experience.

Then I share your experience... but the Ruststalkers... they did some stuff from time to time, but nothing game changing and nothing worth the points (and the high risk to get shot before doing anything else than being shot...).

[MoGuy]

They were equipped with the razors, Omniscient Mask and grenades. I held them back and put them out of LOS. They stayed near my deployment zone since it was most likely that the GK would deepstrike there.