Bryan Blaire Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Well, unfortunately for your argument, I feel confident enough in my understanding to realize that at this point, it's Space Magic (because if isn't capable of being proven now and research doesn't indicate it will change that much in the next 50 years or so then it isn't science fiction, it's science fantasy, and fantasy is magic, even if it is technological). Even more so that it may have actually involved some magic/Warp/psychic manifestation. Doesn't really matter whether you accept the assertion or not. As far as the Manchurian Candidate portion... If that is the reason that the Lion is able to alter his gene-sons mentally so easily, that REALLY has nothing to do with genes at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Right. That was part of my point. It isn't just about physical enhancement. I think it is referred to as hypno-logos, or something similar. It isn't referred to often enough that I recall off-hand, so whatever it is, I guess I need some more of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Add to the history (since this is a collation of that data correct?) that the 1st participated in freeing/colonizing the knight houses of Vyronii and that purple one - forget the name, will look up. The first legion is just so briefly mentioned like once throughout 3 of the 5 books that you'd miss it if you weren't actively searching. As for the unification era, it was said that they participated in some dark events that resulted in massacres and the like. Hmm I wonder if the Angels Tenebrous were around for 250 years of the unification...I could make a realllllllly old marine with fluff for it (yeah 1000hyenas, I know you had the old man taught by a thunder warrior ;)). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I'm right there with you, shabbadoo. For anyone interested, here is the pertinent quote from The Unremembered Empire: “ The Dark Angels had been the first created, and their history predated all other institutions of the Legiones Astartes. They were, in many regards, the prototype. It was said that during the latter years of the Unification War and the first years of the Great Crusade, before the other Legions had been constructed, the Dark Angels had known and done things that no other Legion was privy to. They had built their strengths and identity in that era, in isolation.That identity had needed to be complete. When there was only one Legion, that Legion had been obliged to contain all specialisms. Guilliman knew that the six hosts or ‘wings’ of the Dark Angels represented specialisms of every school, at subtle variance to the standard order of the Principia Bellicosa.” Excerpt From: Dan Abnett. “The Unremembered Empire.” iBooks. Emphasis mine. Note that this passage indicates Guilliman's perspective, which is implied to be incomplete. Other Legions could very well have existed at the same time as the First during the Unification Wars. Perhaps they existed only as token forces, legions in name only, much like the Emperor's Children following their catastrophe. Who knows?Either way, I'm not sure that the First Legion existed for the whole of the Unification Wars. My guess is that the majority of that conflict was fought by the Thunder Warriors; and that the length of that campaign was so long (as opposed to the Great Crusade) precisely because the Emperor had yet to secure the allegiance of Mars (and the technological and manufacturing might that came with it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shabbadoo Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 There is a similar off-hand remark made in Vengeful Spirit, which I am reading right now. I knew I should have noted it down when I read it, but it references the 1st Legion and mentions how they were active "long before the others took up swords", or something to that effect. I can at least tell you that the quote is somewhere in the first 170 pages of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I vaguely remember that and will go have a look since Vengeful Spirit is on my endtable mocking me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the First Legion Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It is from the section when Malcador and the Emperor are having a psychic conversation. Malcador mentions the Lion has gone to call Guilliman to account for what he is doing in Ultramar and mentions that the First Legion is still active in defence of the Emperor and the Imperium. The Emperor's reply is to ask Malcador why he is so surprised considering all that the First Legion accomplished before the other legions even picked up their swords. Sounds to me like the Dark Angels were very active in the solar system and nearby at the end of the unification wars/start of the great crusade. For all we know the Emperor may have launched the crusade with only the First Legion complete as a fighting force. I do remember reading once that the Emperor was the first commander on the Dark Angels, taking personal command of the legion in the early part of the crusade. Annoyingly I cannot remember the source for this, any one else remember reading it? KOTFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 It is from the section when Malcador and the Emperor are having a psychic conversation. Malcador mentions the Lion has gone to call Guilliman to account for what he is doing in Ultramar and mentions that the First Legion is still active in defence of the Emperor and the Imperium. The Emperor's reply is to ask Malcador why he is so surprised considering all that the First Legion accomplished before the other legions even picked up their swords. Sounds to me like the Dark Angels were very active in the solar system and nearby at the end of the unification wars/start of the great crusade. For all we know the Emperor may have launched the crusade with only the First Legion complete as a fighting force. I do remember reading once that the Emperor was the first commander on the Dark Angels, taking personal command of the legion in the early part of the crusade. Annoyingly I cannot remember the source for this, any one else remember reading it? KOTFL That sounds pretty baller. "What are we going to do today Emps?" "The same thing we do every night Captain Pinky, try to take over the Galaxy!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I think the source for this is Astelien in "Angels of Darkness". Which the best lies are based on truth... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimdarkness Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 In the latest HH book there is mention of the 1st legion holding the line against some xenos and losing 50 000 marines that's way the UM had a quarter of a million marines to call upon for the calth muster. I,ll look for the page number later today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight of the First Legion Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Brother Dean I think you may be right about the source, thanks for the help. Astelan, Astelan, Astelan so many lies......although I'm inclined to believe that the big E did lead the First Legion as Astelan mainly lies about the Lion and the Emperor leading the DA during the crusade should be something Boreas could check up on. KOTFL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Augustus Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Losing 50k marines...ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phoebus Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Tell that to the Iron Warriors! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheForgottenAngel Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well in Master of the First audio book Astelan talks with the other veterans of the 1st Legion and how he was a member of the First 2000 or 5000 (correct me if I'm wrong). This leads us to believe that the Dark Angels still have many veterans who fought from the beginning. We could see a rule in the HH books reflecting this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HsojVvad Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Can't remember if true or not. Since we talking history, were the Dark Angles the Emperor's personal body guards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
depthcharge12 Posted June 24, 2015 Share Posted June 24, 2015 Can't remember if true or not. Since we talking history, were the Dark Angles the Emperor's personal body guards? No, that honor went to the custodians. The Dark Angels were more like his personal marine legion for a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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