Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I have all but finished my Airborne force, and only have a few additions to make to it, in order to complete the build. On that note I have decided I want to do an Armored unit next. I'd like this army to be mostly tanks, as my other force is an airmobile infantry list. For what little infantry I want to have in this force I was thinking of getting kriegers from FW. I was going to do a force right out of the codex, so no special FW stuff. For starters I was thinking of a command squad in a Chimera, and two grenadier vet squads in chimeras. The rest of the list would be Leman Russ Vanquishers and Battletanks. For the Armor, I was going to have a tank commander with a couple vanquisher wingmen, with the rest being full up squadrons of Battletanks. My fast attack slots were going to be filled with a two deep squadron of Devil Dogs, and another of Hellhounds. First order of business would be to get the tanks, as I'd be able to field them as the steel host (I'd have to get a hydra too but that was intended anyway). This is all academic due to my shortage of funds, at the moment. What suggestions do y'all have? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunnyogrady Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I've done a lot of cogitating on just this topic! There are a lot of different ways the Armored Company idea can be taken. For me, I always thought the most effective choice would be to run it like an MSU list, but with AV14. Here's a loose framework for what I would do: Steel Host Detachment Command Tank Vanquisher w/ LC Command Tank Buddy Vanquisher w/ LC Leman Russ Vanquisher w/ LC Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Sponsons Leman Russ Executioner w/ Plasma Sponsons Hydra Astra Militarum CAD Company Command Squad w/ Chimera & 3x Meltagun Commissar Veterans w/ Chimera & 3x Meltagun Veterans w/ Chimera & 3x Meltagun Leman Russ Battle Tank Leman Russ Battle Tank Leman Russ Battle Tank 1850 Points Basically 8 Leman Russ Hulls and 4 Chimera Hulls, and a Commissar to make those squishy footsloggers hold the objective you want them on. Apply Hull Heavy Bolters or Flamers as you see fit. The difficulty for me with this list-style is that it is actually surprisingly fragile with the current meta of the game. Between the ability to ping a vehicle to death and the escalating strength of weapons all over the place (S8-10 and Str D), you'll start to lose units quite quickly. Chimeras and Hellhounds/Devil Dogs can screen, but it's a tough road to choose for yourself to be sure. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4058471 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Butcher Braxton Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 A LR paskisher with punisher buddy is always a blast to field and also pretty competitive ;) My 2 executioners with plasma sponsons have made manny oponent almost cry... They think there invinceble with there 10+ terminators... And then came the 10 ap2 plasma blasts :) *insert laughter here* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4058554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 how much funds will you be able to free up, enough to buy all the tanks needed for the steel host formation? if not, can you combine them in your current armyroster (or are you using the elysian list?). i like the fact that you're going to tuse compeltely different models for this detachment, as it fits the fluff a lot that they are different regiments altogether! will you also use a different coloursheme on them? i can definetly recommend getting the steel host formation fist, as this will complement your existing force quite well as your airborn troops can supply the troops needed, and combining both of them will be an easy way to get some +1000 pts games in early on. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4058571 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 I thank you all for the input so far. As for how much in the way of funds, well that's going to depend. It would not be enough to get the Steel host at once. I'm actually using a hybrid list of Stormtroopers (C:MT), Elysians, and Regular Imperial Guard. The regular IG det has a free heavy slot, so I could integrate them. The Steel host was just kind of a starting point, but I could use up my heavy slots to get the tanks on the field. As for the paint scheme, it will have some common elements, the infantry fatigues will be done the same way (Everyone gets issued the same uniforms), but the tanks will be done in browns and greens since they will be found fighting mostly in the lowlands of their world. I might get some of the old steel legion minis off of ebay if I can, as they're similar to kriegers, but probably a bit cheaper. My airborne list definitely does need some help with big guns. As for the tanks themselves, I was going to magnetize. I'm a big fan of the Battletank and Vanquisher, but the ignores cover on the Eradicator is looking appealing now too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4058985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendaen Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 Have you looked at the FW Imperial Armor book? Its what I base my Armored Company list off of. Being able to take Lemun Russes as troops with Objective Secured is nice. No need to take any squishy guardsman at all and if you do want them, you can take an Armored Fist squad in an Autocannon armed Chimera for 2 meltas bombs over 100 points. The Armored fizst Veteran squads are overpriced and only come with 2 special weapons, but your Stormtroopers come with a chimera. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4058992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 26, 2015 Author Share Posted May 26, 2015 I have looked at it, but the armored fist squad is just guardsmen, and I want vets. I'm looking at being able to field from the ABG list, the Steel Host, or a CAD so I have the most flexibility in list building. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4059113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stofficus Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I ran the ABG list for quite some time (in 6th it was borderline overpowered, as it was at the turn of 7th, hence I stopped using it, but now, well....) It's a fun list to use, and very quick owing the low model count, and the ABG offers a lot of functionality you wouldn't otherwise have; beast-hunter rounds for Vanquishers are a godsend, General Grizmund is an expensive, but surprisingly useful HQ choice granting BS4 to a squadron of the same Russ models and allowing all nearby tanks to re-roll their first miss of the shooting phase (good for hunkering up together versus a deepstrike heavy list; let them come to you). The real draw to it is you don't have to use squadrons, which for the most part I find limiting and a liability; one good assault and you've lost 2-3 tanks, while individuals are far less vulnerable. It also means you're never forced to overkill a target as can happen with a squadron - each tank can use its firepower optimally. As for the infantry - Armoured Fist Veterans are a thing, and while 20 points more per squad than normal vets, they do have Tank Hunter (not listed in the book, it's in Forgeworld's FAQ, there were a few editing errors in IA1: 2nd Edition), so you've got some tank hunting meltas running around making life difficult, and their Chimeras also benefit from this as well. Lastly, Stormtroopers in this list have deep-striking Chimeras. Useful? Not at all. Hilarious? Absolutely. However, all the points costs are out-of-date. In my own group, I've been using the codex points values where applicable, but that's something to talk about with your community - I've got nothing but automated non-answers from FW in regards to the ABG, Elysian or Death Korps Assault Brigade being updated, so I wouldn't expect official updates for a long time, if ever honestly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4059344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 26, 2015 Share Posted May 26, 2015 I would drop the CCS in chimera. It eats points without providing any value. Two mechanized vet squads sure aren't going to justify the orders. With a heavy weapon to fire from the hatch and nothing else, you're looking at roughly 270 for the troops. Nine LRBTs is going to cost you 1350 points...you can't fit your dream list in anything close to an 1850 list! I would go with Pask in a vanquisher with one vanquisher wingman, that's roughly 350 points. Two hellhounds and two devil dogs is ok at 500. 600 for four LRBTs. You could possibly squeeze in another wingman for Pask, but a better idea would be to spend the points on upgrades...Rough terrain modifications for the fast attack light tanks, upgrade two of the russes to demolishers, lascannons and camo netting for the vanquishers, etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4059374 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 So how would you configure the vet squads? I was thinking melta or plasma grenadiers with an autocannon team in a chimera. I was going to do 2 of them, to fill my troops slot and give me some medium vehicle hunters. Then I'd fill up on russes. So since 2 vet squads doesn't justify orders, I'd drop the CCS in favor of a second Tank commander. I intend to avail myself of the tank commander's BS4, putting him and Pask in vanquishers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4059673 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted May 27, 2015 Share Posted May 27, 2015 Well...at 1850, two tank commanders (each with a wingman) is doable, but you're not going to be filling up on heavy support tanks and fast attack tanks if you do that...you're looking at a minimum of 4 in HQ, that's a good 750 points. I'd totally do it, just something to think about. I would go with Pask and a second tank commander, each with a lascannon and an LRBT wingman, and camo netting for all four tanks. These ideally sit in back and shoot. Two chimeras full of vets...keep em cheap, more points to spend on tanks. They're not going to be doing much killing, they're there to swoop in and superscore after the dying is done. Maybe an autocannon and a grenade launcher in each one, no doctrines? 140 points each. I'd keep them back with front armor towards the enemy, shooting for at least three turns, then just drive like hell and forget about shooting, you got objectives to grab! I'd still want two demolishers, they're killy and they soak up antitank fire while forcing the enemy to fight on his half of the table instead of coming over to bother the ranged tanks. Support those with a pair of devil dogs. You still have an open HS slot, put an eradicator in it and forget about the hellhounds. Eradicator has more range, much better armor, and a large blast S6 instead of a template S5...it does the hellhound thing better than a hellhound. The only advantages of the hellhound are speed and that it's a fast attack choice...when you have room in heavy support (as you do here because of the second HQ tank squadron), always go for the nova cannon!!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4059685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 27, 2015 Author Share Posted May 27, 2015 Right now, the fast attack tanks are just a planned expansion thing, first thing is to get the regular tanks. I'm going to get a squadron of leman russes that I will magnetize, and use in my current force org first, and then expand from there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4059691 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brendaen Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 I've gotten to where I always bring an allied detachment of ABG with all my lists that consists of a Command tank vanquisher with Beast hunter shells, a basic LRBT, and my Thunderer (which is my favorite tank). The only really useful Tank Order is the "rerolling invulnerable saves" one, which when used on the thunderer, makes Terminators cry... Even if your short on points, a BS4 bare bones command LRBT and the Thunderer come in for around 300pts and do a lot of damage. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4062041 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 I'd field a Vanquisher commander a commissar vanquisher, and a squadron of LR for an allied det of ABG. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4062081 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Would mechanized platoons be viable? It would certainly be expensive, both in points and actual dollars, but would it be useful? I was thinking about my current guard force, and how it is relatively small compared to most other guard armies (models/points). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075518 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Tanks always benefit from trooper support, the question is more to do with your list's intentions I think. More tanks need proportionately more infantry to be adequately protected but if you do it properly you won't have enough points for a proper tank force which sort of defeats the point! So it's about a compromise, and how you choose to take your troopers. So I think a Platoon would be a bit expensive to mech up, you may as well go for a couple of Vet squads and squeeze in a few toys. Or perhaps given the costs maybe you'd prefer those points to be spent on more armour? With mechanisation I believe it's mostly an "all or nothing" affair so both would be viable in their own ways so it depends on what you'd like. My preference would be for trooper support, if only a little. They can do the grunt work letting your tanks focus on maximising their killing efficiency. For overall army purposes you can never go wrong with more troopers and chimeras ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075538 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Here's what I was thinking for platoons: 2x: PCS 4GL, chimera IS w/ML & GL, chimera IS w/ML & GL, chimera HWS w/ 3 mortar teams If I'm not mistaken, platoon squads can operate independently, so I can send 40 guys out to to cap objectives, and sit the PCS and HWS back and use orders on the Heavy weapons to hammer the opponent with FRF,SRF. Meanwhile my tanks advance and blast his heavy hitters and infantry, and crush him under my armored treads. I could also take my 2SSF guys as my vets, and Stormies for this army if chose to run them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075560 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 They work as independent squads yes, they'd offer a solid infantry core to your army being able to handle objectives and enemy infantry for you. I'd drop the mortars though, without a transport in a mechanised list they probably wouldn't last long. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 I was thinking about plunking the HWS behind something like a ADL with the PC manning a quad gun. I see what you're saying though, so I might just do that. Would you take a third IS then? Or just leave it at the 2? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075588 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Your using mortars for the hws right? Otherwise I think that hws get blocked by the aegis defense line. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075718 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 A third squad would give you some nice numbers. As for line of sight, nobody worried about that when a unit is right up against the terrain right? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308202-starting-an-armored-company/#findComment-4075738 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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