Golden Aegis Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Also check page 80 in the Rulebook about embarked models and measurement for the homers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 According to the triangulation rule from the formation any unit in deepstrike reserve can assault. Units in deepstiking transports are still in deepstrike reserve according to the BRB so yes you can use it to assault out of pods. So I'm thinking Thunderhammer and Storm Shield Termies in Pods? Turn one drop 3 empty pods with Homing Beacons. Turn two drop 3 pods full of Terminators / Deathcompany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Why homers on the first turn? Where's the benefit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Could always port them in without the pods unless you're expecting some scary intercepter fire! And save the pods for something that can't ds like dreadnoughts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 It does work from within the ravens, you measure from the hull, you could also have them drop out(with likely scatter of course.) As written you could use the formation to assault with drop podded units on turn one, but the ravens would have to come in first. At least for the tourney out in SoCal hosted by Frontline gaming(Usually have brilliant idea for balence.) say that you cannot use the homers at all on turn 1 which sounds reasonable to me, so that's how I usually play it at the FLGS when using this formation. Rules reference for that? (the first part) Zhukov, regular use of a Teleport Homer requires it to be on the table. Augur Triangulation is not a regular use. Not only can the Tactical Marines stay on board the Stormraven, but the effects are measured from the Stormraven's hull. I know it is not a regular use, but what allows its effect to take place while being inside a transport? I can't find the reference for such things in 7th edition atm. Also check page 80 in the Rulebook about embarked models and measurement for the homers. I assume you mean this part: "If the players need to measure a range involving the embarked unit (except for its shooting), this range is measured to or from the vehicle's hull." Thing is, I need to know what allows you to measure this range in the first place. And if we look at similar things, then we find a thing like this, from the Dark Angels FAQ: "Powerfield Generator. Add ‘If the bearer is embarked upon a Transport vehicle, the power field’s effects only apply to models embarked upon that vehicle’." They also changed Psychic Powers to not work anymore from inside transport, except for Witchfire and then only outside of a Fire Point. What makes you guys think it is any different for Teleport Homers? You need permission to do something in the rules of 40k, absence of prohibition is not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 According to the triangulation rule from the formation any unit in deepstrike reserve can assault. Units in deepstiking transports are still in deepstrike reserve according to the BRB so yes you can use it to assault out of pods. So I'm thinking Thunderhammer and Storm Shield Termies in Pods? Turn one drop 3 empty pods with Homing Beacons. Turn two drop 3 pods full of Terminators / Deathcompany. I would pod 2 xTerminators in Turn 1 in the opponents Face and one pod with tacs in turn 2. Then Move with the Ravens in in Turn1 and bring the Ravens in Triangulation range of the Termies. Tadaa you can still Assault in Turn 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserve within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with teleport homers, then it does not scatter, and can charge on the same turn it arrives. Remember if a unit is embarked and you need to measure to it, you measure from the hull. It works the same way it does for scouts in the Storm Speeder holding onto a homer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 They also changed Psychic Powers to not work anymore from inside transport, except for Witchfire and then only outside of a Fire Point. What makes you guys think it is any different for Teleport Homers? You need permission to do something in the rules of 40k, absence of prohibition is not the same thing. You are right with Teleport Homers they work only embarked. But the triangulation rule that let your units ds without scatter and charge when you deepstrike counts from the hull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserve within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with teleport homers, then it does not scatter, and can charge on the same turn it arrives. Remember if a unit is embarked and you need to measure to it, you measure from the hull. It works the same way it does for scouts in the Storm Speeder holding onto a homer. It's that simple you think? It seems pretty tight indeed... Okay, that's great. Forgive me for being rather stubborn in a case like this, I'm just always really carefull with ruling things in my favour, I rather not have an advantage than playing with one while it's not 100% sure it's okay. You are right with Teleport Homers they work only embarked. But the triangulation rule that let your units ds without scatter and charge when you deepstrike counts from the hull. I should pay more attention to my writing, I meant the Augur rule again, not the regular use of Teleport Homers, my bad! Well, then this formation seems honestly pretty powerfull and I'm going to see in a couple of months whether I'm going to build an army around it or not (busy with a different project atm)! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Why homers on the first turn? Where's the benefit? Quite right, completly pointless. I was hoping you could use any homers, but it clearly says it only works on units in the formation. I'm liking the empty pods on turn one tho, drop them on objectives to score/contest. Then one turn two when your SR's are in position drop down 3 more pods with terms inside for assaulty fun. EDIT - Although I suppose you dont have to wait until turn two at all do you? Roll for the ravens first, move them into position, then roll for the pods... I guess you may as well remove the pods from the equasion completly and just deepstrike them in. Wow. I really, REALLY like the way this thread is going. Full list ideas anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Why homers on the first turn? Where's the benefit? Quite right, completly pointless. I was hoping you could use any homers, but it clearly says it only works on units in the formation. I'm liking the empty pods on turn one tho, drop them on objectives to score/contest. Then one turn two when your SR's are in position drop down 3 more pods with terms inside for assaulty fun. EDIT - Although I suppose you dont have to wait until turn two at all do you? Roll for the ravens first, move them into position, then roll for the pods... I guess you may as well drop the pods completly and jsut deepstrike them in. Wow. I really, REALLY like the way this thread is going. Full list ideas anyone? The trouble with that is you are putting everything in that 3+ roll. Additionally, if you are playing Maelstrom and having picked up a Claim Objective X card, isn't your podding onto an Objective wasted in this instance? I'm sure you've heard of Sod's law.... Don't get me wrong, it can be of use. Especially if you opt for the deathwind missile launcher upgrade or even opt for a Deathstorm Drop Pod. However, your Stormraven's can move on 36". Your Pod(s) have to land within 12" of two Stormravens (which are ideally wing to wing so let's say that's an additional 6"). Disembarkation nets you another 6" to give you 48" movement prior to charging on the first turn. How big is your table? :) Augur Triangulation: If a friendly unit with the Blood Angels Faction arrives from Deep Strike Reserve within 12" of at least two models from this Formation equipped with teleport homers, then it does not scatter, and can charge on the same turn it arrives. Remember if a unit is embarked and you need to measure to it, you measure from the hull. It works the same way it does for scouts in the Storm Speeder holding onto a homer. It's that simple you think? It seems pretty tight indeed... Okay, that's great. Forgive me for being rather stubborn in a case like this, I'm just always really carefull with ruling things in my favour, I rather not have an advantage than playing with one while it's not 100% sure it's okay. You are right with Teleport Homers they work only embarked. But the triangulation rule that let your units ds without scatter and charge when you deepstrike counts from the hull. I should pay more attention to my writing, I meant the Augur rule again, not the regular use of Teleport Homers, my bad! Well, then this formation seems honestly pretty powerfull and I'm going to see in a couple of months whether I'm going to build an army around it or not (busy with a different project atm)! It is pretty tight, hence why it keeps coming up every other month. It is legal though! As for your other project, apart from a certain bitter individual, how is that going? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Full list ideas anyone? Sure, just a rough simple draw I just did: BA CAD/BSF Libby; Jump Pack 80 5 Scouts 55 5 Scouts 55 5 Death Company; Jump Packs, Powerfist 140 5 Death Company; Jump Packs, Powerfist 140 5 Death Company; Jump Packs, Powerfist 140 Dante 220 ASFS 10 Tactical Marines; teleport homer 140 10 Tactical Marines; teleport homer 140 10 Tactical Marines; teleport homer 140 Storm Raven 200 Storm Raven 200 Storm Raven 200 Total: 1850 No need for Hurricane Bolters on the Ravens I feel, there are 30 tactical marines after all. I just filled the list up with Death Company and Dante, arguably the best units of the codex. Dante also helps with getting reserves in reliably turn 2 to try and get charges off. As for your other project, apart from a certain bitter individual, how is that going? Haha! Pretty good actually, the whole army is almost built, so after that I can start painting it (to at least get 1 or 2 colors on it for a tournament I'm heading to). I will start playing with it next week normally (French people can be annoying regarding making appointments I noticed lol). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Well, then this formation seems honestly pretty powerfull and I'm going to see in a couple of months whether I'm going to build an army around it or not (busy with a different project atm)! It's all good, brother! I once believed this formation was too good to be true, but the TO that hosted a succuessful tournament down here in SoCal allowed it as long as there were no turn one assaults, they also made a few really good balance tweeks with most overpowered formations, and even the new eldar and necron codexes to bring it in line with everyone else. So with everything being allowed as it, as written this formation should be perfectly fine with turn one assaults, but I really only use this kind of list when I'm playing with some of our more... let's say competetive players. Now the formation can be a lot of fun, but I would reccomend letting you opponent know before using it so there is no confusion, just point out the rules that were mentioned here, and everything should be fine! At least the most important rule to building a list to me, is to make sure that both you, and your opponent are going to have a glorious battle. I find a stomp to be very boring, and generally unfun to everyone involved coming from both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 List ideas? I'd like to try and fit three Drop Pods, one with a Furioso Librarian Dreadnought and one with a Scout Squad and Mephiston to make use of that rule. That could be interesting despite the restrictions on casting that turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 At least the most important rule to building a list to me, is to make sure that both you, and your opponent are going to have a glorious battle. I find a stomp to be very boring, and generally unfun to everyone involved coming from both sides. Same, outside of tournaments I make sure I bring the kind of list my oppenent would like to play against. List ideas? I'd like to try and fit three Drop Pods, one with a Furioso Librarian Dreadnought and one with a Scout Squad and Mephiston to make use of that rule. That could be interesting despite the restrictions on casting that turn. I feel like it would be better to try and not rely on the Augur rule to work (so taking units which work fine also without the Augur rule), while at the same time being able to use it when it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 The trouble with that is you are putting everything in that 3+ roll. Additionally, if you are playing Maelstrom and having picked up a Claim Objective X card, isn't your podding onto an Objective wasted in this instance? I'm sure you've heard of Sod's law.... You do get to re-roll that 3+ and (assumedly) you would have either a CAD a BSF or some other formation starting on the board. If it was absolutly imperitive to get this on turn one, there are always work-arounds. Cptn Karlean for instance, or even use up that pesky HQ requirment with a Damoclese Rhino. +2 to reserves AND a nice big fat pie plate to drop as well. Regarding the Maelstrom cards, wouldn’t you draw them before you bring reserves on? That being the case you would be pretty much guaranteed to get your pick of whatever objective markers you please. EDIT: Should you be lucky enough to own 4 Storm Ravens, The Angel's Fury Spearhead sits nicely next to the Strike Force Mortalis formation at 2,000 points. Doesn't leave you much in the way of upgrade points though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Damocles fill no HQ Slot up. So you have to take an regular HQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 The trouble with that is you are putting everything in that 3+ roll. Additionally, if you are playing Maelstrom and having picked up a Claim Objective X card, isn't your podding onto an Objective wasted in this instance? I'm sure you've heard of Sod's law.... You do get to re-roll that 3+ and (assumedly) you would have either a CAD a BSF or some other formation starting on the board. If it was absolutly imperitive to get this on turn one, there are always work-arounds. Cptn Karlean for instance, or even use up that pesky HQ requirment with a Damoclese Rhino. +2 to reserves AND a nice big fat pie plate to drop as well. Regarding the Maelstrom cards, wouldn’t you draw them before you bring reserves on? That being the case you would be pretty much guaranteed to get your pick of whatever objective markers you please. EDIT: Should you be lucky enough to own 4 Storm Ravens, The Angel's Fury Spearhead sits nicely next to the Strike Force Mortalis formation at 2,000 points. Doesn't leave you much in the way of upgrade points though. Damocles Command Tanks don't fill up a HQ slot. As for the cards, yes you do, but what happens when you don't draw a Claim Objective X for the first few turns? That's what I meant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 This seems to sync up well with the Intervention force. How do you guys kit our your Vanguard Vets? Do we go with expencive rule of cool and take 4 double lightning claws and put a Powermaul and storm Shield on the sgt. Do we go with dull but effective S/S and Powerswords across the whole squad? No matter how I equip them they come out very expencive for what is essentially 5 space marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riot Earp Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 You can try to skie of fury some combatsquads out of the raven (you will scatter full 2w6 because they are only counting as embarking as if DS). After dropping you can try to run if you miss the Objektive. In the last rounds you can go in skimmer mode and embark the other Combat Squad (with sweet ObjektiveSecured) where needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Golden Aegis Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 At the very least give the sergeant the SS for soaking challenges, and maybe hand out a few powerweapons to the mooks. I personally have went nuts with mine and have given all of them SS/LC because I caaan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 At the very least give the sergeant the SS for soaking challenges, and maybe hand out a few powerweapons to the mooks. I personally have went nuts with mine and have given all of them SS/LC because I caaan! Thats kinda what I want to do, just becuase they look so cool. My game group has a pretty strict WYSIWYG rule, how does this loadout usually work for you, worth it or not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 This seems to sync up well with the Intervention force. How do you guys kit our your Vanguard Vets? Do we go with expencive rule of cool and take 4 double lightning claws and put a Powermaul and storm Shield on the sgt. Do we go with dull but effective S/S and Powerswords across the whole squad? No matter how I equip them they come out very expencive for what is essentially 5 space marines. If it's free gear from the formation, just a nice mix of weapons and about a third to half of them with Shields. Depends on your meta of course but I'd say you can't go wrong with a ratio of 1:1:1 for axe, sword and maul. There's arguments for and against putting the Shields on the weapon guys but I'd say you don't. Realistically only need to survive a couple rounds shooting if that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevaenuffbass Posted May 28, 2015 Author Share Posted May 28, 2015 A rather easy, if not ideal use, is to have Dreadnaughts of whatever flavour you like aboard the Ravens. The can use skies of fury to jump out of the raven, then assault. Even if you fail the re-rollable 3+ for reserves (happens 1in 9 times), all is not lost. Make sure your list has some scouts you can hide, and do your alpha in turn 2. Regarding objectives... If you table the opponent you win Completely agree with all comments about letting your opponent know first. I Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted May 28, 2015 Share Posted May 28, 2015 Flyers are a tough one. They cost a lot of points because they are hard to being down, but if your opponent has a lot of sky fire they could be dead weight. I don't think you'd have to tell your opponent, especially Tau or something :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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