The Grim Badger Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 Hi folks! Long time lurker here, but finally taking the plunge into 30k. Always wanted a Legion army, and I've read a lot on the subject on these very forums. Just wondering if you long time vets could give me any pointers or advice with the following conundrum. I'm wrestling with a choice of legion between Salamanders or Iron Hands. Here are some of the considerations; - I prefer the Iron Hands table top rules, and feel that I could write a 30k list that would work under 40k codex as well (Big plus - my group is mainly 40k) - I prefer the Iron Hands models. (Bionics, and general aesthetics) - I prefer the Salamanders Primarch. - I prefer the Salamanders colour scheme (i.e not black, had some bad experience painting with it before!) One of my big conerns with Salamanders was that in 40k they are best used with Drop Pods, but their main Rite of War for 30k means no Deep strikers... so surely thats out the window unless I make some major changes between the two system, correct? Do any of you happen to have any opinions on the two legions that might help me make a decision? Any and all opinions welcome, and gratefully received :) Ben Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 It sounds to me like you want to do Iron Hands more, so I'd suggest going for them. What is it about painting black that puts you off? Ferrus is a pretty kickass primarch even if Vulkan is better (not that I'm biased?) You could probably use Salamanders with a Rhino rush army in 30 and 40k rather than drop pods if you wanted however. They are too slow to footslog in 30k, so you either need transport or a gunline force to use them well. Alternatively you could do an Istvaan V/Shattered Legions force with elements of both the Xth and XVIIIth, maybe? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4065563 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted May 31, 2015 Share Posted May 31, 2015 One thing to keep in mins regarding the Rites of War is that you don't have to pick the Legion Specific ROW :) I feel that Rites of War represent the specific tactical loadout of a specific "Chapter" or company within the Legion. The Legion as a whole is diverse, but specialized companies are used for the job ! You could very well take an Orbital Assault ROW for Salamanders, I'm certain they did have their Drop Assault Companies :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4065578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grim Badger Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hey guys, thanks for the replies! Castiel - In all honesty, I swing between the two at least a few times a day... need to make a decision very shortly, as I'm at Warhammer World for the weekend in 5 days and plan to avoid postage costs! Painting black puts me off mostly because it can be a little dull, Google image search for 30k Iron Hands can also yield some diabolical off-putting results >_< Ferrus is an awesome dude, no doubts there - does it sound silly that I'm a little put off by him getting his noggin chopped off so soon in the story? :P also not sure about his arms... I mean, obviously its fluff, but even still. Rhino rush not a bad thought, totally get you when you mention them being too slow to foot-slog. I like the idea of a shattered legion force! Presumably that would mean just allying the two? Might try knocking a list up with that and see where it takes me. GreyCrow - Ah, I hadn't realised that about RoW! Good to know! Ill have a look through the other ones available - orbital assault sounds promising! I think my next step is to try and write some lists, see what takes my fancy! Cheers again for the assist :) Ben Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4066417 Share on other sites More sharing options...
One-eye Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 A technique that works everytime when I hesitate between two choices : flip a coin. Then, during its flight, your heart will tell you on which side you would like the coin to fall on. Select this one. Don't look at the coin, it's now useless. Profit :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4066450 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hey guys, thanks for the replies! Castiel - In all honesty, I swing between the two at least a few times a day... need to make a decision very shortly, as I'm at Warhammer World for the weekend in 5 days and plan to avoid postage costs! Painting black puts me off mostly because it can be a little dull, Google image search for 30k Iron Hands can also yield some diabolical off-putting results >_< Ferrus is an awesome dude, no doubts there - does it sound silly that I'm a little put off by him getting his noggin chopped off so soon in the story? also not sure about his arms... I mean, obviously its fluff, but even still. Rhino rush not a bad thought, totally get you when you mention them being too slow to foot-slog. I like the idea of a shattered legion force! Presumably that would mean just allying the two? Might try knocking a list up with that and see where it takes me. GreyCrow - Ah, I hadn't realised that about RoW! Good to know! Ill have a look through the other ones available - orbital assault sounds promising! I think my next step is to try and write some lists, see what takes my fancy! Cheers again for the assist Ben Totally get you on the early death of Ferrus being offputting, it does kind of suck a bit. As for the black, you could maybe spruce it up with some freehand designs if you felt up to it? Yeah, I do mean allying the two for Shattered Legions, you could do a main force of one, but with allied elements for the other. For example, my main force is Salamanders led by Vulkan, but I have some allied RG so I can use Destroyers. You could do similar, a main force of Salamanders led by Vulkan if you prefer him as a Primarch, and small elements of IH to complement them. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4066464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Depending on which FW pictures you look at, Iron Hands are not necessarily black but a dark brown, if that's easier for you to paint. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067063 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stofficus Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Some of the Iron Hands art has quite a bit of silver on them as well - the tanks in particular look fantastic like that. Don't be afraid to experiment - yeah they're mostly black, but there's plenty of room to break that up. As for force composition, as has been said, the Legions have their preferences, but they have to be able to do everything by design. The Iron Hands bury the enemy with tanks as a matter of preference, but still make use of orbital assault (see a little shindig on Isstvan V for that), reconnaissance elements and so on. At the kind of scale we're dealing with on the tabletop, of rarely more than 100 legionnaires, anything is justifiable in the context of a legion tens of thousands strong capable of autonomous operation with very few exceptions. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067071 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I prefer the Iron Hands to the Salamanders, but don't feel that you'll need to run them as 40k Iron Hands against other 40k armies. After more experience with Legion armies, I can tell you that they are certainly not overpowered. Are you dead set on these two Legions? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Operative Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Hey guys, thanks for the replies! Painting black puts me off mostly because it can be a little dull, I don't know if you have already but taking a look at the " The Legion for you... Community assistance thread" and having a read through will tell you that there are a huge number of legionaries and that there are plenty of alternate colour schemes you can do whilst retaining the feel of the legion. My tip, experiment, maybe even use photoshop or paint if you want. Changing the colour of an arm, helmet, shoulder pad or the whole body can give you a colour scheme that you prefer to plain black (as a bonus it makes it unique). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067222 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 What armour Mk are you planning on using as well? Mk III for example has lots of trim that could be painted a different colour to help break up the black and make a unique scheme Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067234 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iron Hands Fanatic Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Well, FW's official colour-scheme for the Xth Legion has an awesome green/purple oil-slick effect, which is probably best seen on the Gorgons: http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Images/Product/AlternativeFW/xlarge/Gorgont5.jpg Black Iron doesn't necessarily have to be black Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067511 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevindar Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree with IHF on the point that black doesn't have to equal a solid black. The scheme on the Gorgon above is also not that hard to replicate, even without an airbrush (sure, an airbrush would help but..eeeh). I might just be entirely partial to Iron Hands though, the minis are so lovely and detailed and.. You might even be allowed to call Raven Guard and Salamanders players cowards (and who wouldn't want to do that?) ! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I agree with IHF on the point that black doesn't have to equal a solid black. The scheme on the Gorgon above is also not that hard to replicate, even without an airbrush (sure, an airbrush would help but..eeeh). I might just be entirely partial to Iron Hands though, the minis are so lovely and detailed and.. You might even be allowed to call Raven Guard and Salamanders players cowards (and who wouldn't want to do that?) ! Cowards? Knowing when to withdraw so you live to fight another day and don't get your head presented on a platter to Horus isn't cowardice :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4067529 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grim Badger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 Wow, such huge feed back! Thanks for all the tips folks never really expected such a response - really nice to see Castiel -Free hand to break up the black is a great idea. Like it a lot I may well look into Salamander allies once I've got some Iron Hands up and running. Totally into Mk 3 armour mostly, so that works nicely with Iron Hands, and yes - breaks up that black nicely looking at it! Skalpynock - Excellent point! I've been discussing painting black with a friend of mine who is a rather excellent painter, he tells me he has some ideas we can use to spruce up the black. Stofficus - Great advice, thanks. I'm quite a fan of having durable units on the field, previous armies have included FnP Banner Deathwing, and White Scar bikes. Ishagu - Really? Wow, that's good to know I always thought there was something of a power difference between the two. Operative - I did have a gander through some of the Community Assistance Thread, although the size of it is pretty intimidating! Alternate colour schemes are something I'd rather avoid, I've done plenty of it in the past and now it feels like time to go official if you see what I mean. Iron Hands Fanatic - How I hadn't noticed that is beyond me... very well pointed out sir! I'll bare that in mind when I buy some test models. Nevindar - Absolutely agree, and I have used an Airbrush extensively on my most recent force so that is a real option. The Iron Hands minis are definitely part of the attraction for me as well! Thanks again folks, looks like I'll be joining the ranks of the Iron Tenth in the next week or so! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068176 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevindar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 mankindben: Have you gone through the Casual Challenge and ETL threads? There are loads of inspiration there if nothing else. Also I envy your possession of an airbrush ;)Castiel: "Let's hold back and leave some glory to the second wave instead of helping Ferrus, shall we Vulkan?" "Yeah, they sure ain't traitors at all, the Iron Hands will be fine while we sit back, crack a few beers and watch the battle from this sunny hillside" //paraphrase ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castiel Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 mankindben: Have you gone through the Casual Challenge and ETL threads? There are loads of inspiration there if nothing else. Also I envy your possession of an airbrush Castiel: "Let's hold back and leave some glory to the second wave instead of helping Ferrus, shall we Vulkan?" "Yeah, they sure ain't traitors at all, the Iron Hands will be fine while we sit back, crack a few beers and watch the battle from this sunny hillside" //paraphrase Think you mean "Ferrus, don't be a bonehead, lets fall back and rearm to finish the job with our landing allies. Oh , they are with Horus, lets evacuate before we're wiped out." That said, having no head does make using your brain hard :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068192 Share on other sites More sharing options...
nevindar Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Well, I agree that lacking a head can be detrimental to ones cognitive abilities. On the plus side, Cybernetically reanimated Marines... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068195 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grim Badger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 mankindben: Have you gone through the Casual Challenge and ETL threads? There are loads of inspiration there if nothing else. Also I envy your possession of an airbrush I have had a bit of a look, but I'll continue to do so on your recommendation! Haha, good old airbrush - not as expensive as you might think to invest in, but far from being the IWIN button some people think it is. I did help me achieve my best results yet for an army though :) Feel free to check it out ( http://s113.photobucket.com/user/mankindben/library/Warhammer?sort=3&page=1 ) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068214 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you like the Iron Hands scheme, this guide will help. Written by the man who designed FW's colour scheme when he worked for them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grim Badger Posted June 2, 2015 Author Share Posted June 2, 2015 If you like the Iron Hands scheme, this guide will help. Written by the man who designed FW's colour scheme when he worked for them. Amazing! Thanks Marshal Loss :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308503-some-general-advice-or-oh-god-not-another-one/#findComment-4068409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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