Sicarian Infiltrators/Ruststalkers in practice

[Frater Cornelius]

The units that got a lot of hate from the internet, including me, shapes up to be quite the decent unit. I heard from quite a few different sources that they were astounded how well they performed. Especially the Taser/Uzi version of Infiltrators.

 

Share your experiences.

[shocker3800]

I have come to love the infiltrators, the number of wounds they can give out in combat and even their burst pistols. Having stealth is a great little bonus.

 

My only gripe is no assault grenades, this can hurt due to the t3 stat. If you can catch an opponent out in the open then their aura will work a treat.

 

If you use them in the WD formation they get allot better, being able to get shrouded is very useful and the possibility of increasing their strength to 9 makes these bad boys knight killers.

[Gammal]

Im gonna have to make this snappy, since im at work and all ;).

Both units serve a very important role in my army, and I have not played a single game without them, and im not planning to.
We all know the priests are the "worst" unit right now, according to the net-blaggers and interwebbers.

My inflitraitors serve as a backline harass unit, with cover they easily survive the first round of fire directed at them, and every squad firing at them is something not shooting at the knight im fielding.

Vs anything that is not 3+ or better, these guys do massive work, easily lowering hordes of orcs or imperial guard to smaller more manegable sizes. Yes they die, every single game, but the fact I can ruin my opponents fast advance from the very start is worth a lot to me. Inflitrait does more work then people give it credit, if you know how to best utilize it, being a wood elves player myself ;)

Ruststalkers:
Once again, a unit I adore, they first and foremost serve as the first speedbump in my army, slizing up anything in close combat, they should always get the charge if you play them right, and with the princeps being able to take the blinding shield for 4++ wich also blinds enemies.
I have seen them go bananas on tau battlesuits expecting to be able to hide and slizing up deepstriking terminators.
The fact many play them as a minimum of 5 boggles the mind, these guys die, and they die quite easy, so you need numbers on your side so you can survive until round two, where anything dies.
To compliment the stalkers and mainly their lack of attacks I have dragoons making sure they dont get bogged down from horde units (infiltraitors work great here too!)
Let´s not forget the synergies we have in the army, lowering ws,bs,t etc etc, vanguards and electro priests make great use ofthe stalkers/dragoons ability to tie up enemies in combat.

A quick rundown of my 1850 list and how it synergieses:


10 Rangers - Firesupport
10 Vanguards - Midrange objective firesupport

8 Ruststalkers - Midrange melee
5 Infliltraitors - Backline harassers
3Dragoons - Melee support and tank busters

1 Techpriest Dominus - Tank for priests
10 Electro priests - Backline melee support for firebase.

3 Kataphron Destroyers  - 6x s7 ap 2 templates towards the midfield
3 Kataphron Destroyers - 18x Grav shots on anything that has armour and needs to die, wanna deepstrike your terminators?

1 Imperial knight Crusader - Toolbox and firesupport. Deals with flyers, and MEQ´s without any trouble, also the melta cannon can bring down vehicles.


Thats about it, I got loads more to explain in detail, but im at work so, perhaps another time ;)

Hope this helps a bit!


PS: We cant look at our  units in a vacuum, they are all small cogs in the greater machine we call Adeptus mechanicus!


 

[PraetorDragoon]

Thats some cool list. What type of priests do you run? 

 

I am quite fond of the Sicarians. They are quite squshy, as T3 is not that high at all. They do however posess a 4+/6++ and FNP save, so they can survive a bit more thanks to that. They are good however, at harassing enemies and crushing some of the tougher troops. They are however, extremely fast due to Dunestrider and are pretty scary on the charge. 

 

I have gotten some good milage from the Ruststalker warlord. That unit can crank out a pretty decent amount of Ap2 attacks thanks to Perferred Enemy. He also heavily beneifts from the three Warlord Traits he can roll: Eternal Warrior, Reroll FNP, and Mastercrafted weapon. Out of these, Master-crafted weapon is the weakest, as you get more potential of toughness. I wouldn't equip the Blades on the Ruststalkers, as losing grenades isn't really worth the +1S. Having a weakish ranged attack and capable of striking at initiative in cover is more worth it. Also, Chordclaws are pretty awesome with Perferred Enemy, almost auto-wounding targets. 

 

And I agree with Gammal, it's better to have a bigger unit of Ruststalkers. It is more surviable and does more damage. Always buy an invul save for the Princeps. 

[Gammal]

They are the shooty variant of priests
Im glad you like the list! I try and make it cool fun and able to win games, not always an easy task, but im 2-0 so far

Got a game tonight VS chaos marines, wish me luck!

[Frater Cornelius]

I like what I hear about Sicarians. I was thinking to add 5 with Taser/Uzi and possibly an Omniscent Mask, because Zealot is an awesome rule. Thwy harass scoring units and in a combined charge with Dragoons they can do plenty of wounds. From what I have heard they work well that way.

 

Anyway, good Data. Keep it coming ;)

[Scurvydog]

Sicarians work ok until you face an eldar player with bikes and warp spiders, everything moves faster than you and instant kills with str 6, it was horrible :p 2 units of sicarians dead turn 1.

[Marshal Ommadon]

I've been impressed with both Ruststalkers and Infiltrators.  I have found them to be great counter-charge units.  Even though you sacrifice either their Infiltrate, in case of the Infiltrators, or their Scout move in case of the Ruststalkers both units still have their merits. 

 

You also have to use your shooting strategically to create ideal situations so they can get the upper hand in CC.  Even though they are a necessary tax for me to field the War Convocation, I still am able to find useful situations for them (even just 5 man squads) during the ebb and flow of a game.  They have even done well versus T-Cav/White Scars cheese lists.

[Lichschool]

My ruststalkers have actually really surprised me. They are dangerous even when down to 1 or 2 models. The other night my 'stalkers managed to thread a Tau firing line and tear up a Riptide like a wet napkin. They even managed to survive the whole battle with only one loss (I got somewhat lucky on some saves but not too far out of statistical). They are surprisingly resilient, given all the lamentations about their 3 toughness. I've actually been able to keep them alive quite effectively by using cover and being aggressive. Once they get into close combat, they rip things apart. And they can rip *anything* apart. Vehicles, monstrous creatures, infantry, whatever.

The Infiltrators' flechette blasters either cause untold havoc, or might as well be sticks and strong language. They always force a buttload of saves in close combat though, due to the taser rule and high strength of their attacks.

One of the main factors that goes into using your Sicarians well seems to be choosing doctrina imperatives. Theoryhammerers say that Terminators, arguably one of the Ruststalkers' prime targets, will kill the Sicarians before they ever see a second turn of close combat. Well, not if the Ruststalkers are at Weapon Skill 7. The Infiltrators are even scarier with the Imperative bonuses due to their, frankly too good, 6" radius "GIT GUD" field. The -1 to half of a unit's statline that looks good on paper has been crippling in practice.

Dunestrider is a real problem for opponents too. It might not look like a huge boost on paper, once again, but in practice they have been jumping down their targets' throats usually by turn 2, if not on turn one. The free scout move helps immensely with this. The infiltrators are even easier to get close. I haven't used them with the Infoslave Skull yet, but it could be potentially devastating.

Lastly, forcing sweeping advance rolls is especially strong since *every model in your maniple gets crusader* as long as you have two troop units in your skitarii detachment. Sicarians have good initiative already; if your opponent loses close combat (likely) and fails their leadership test, you are going to destroy that unit, unless they're Eldar and they get lucky.

Sicarians are vicious, even when weakened, and will cause a lot of trouble if not dealt with.

[Vash]

Never really understod why people hate these units so much. Their Dunestrider move makes them so agile its unbelievable. 

With a gaming table with normal recommended amount of terrain they can move from cover to cover, breaking line of sight in many cases. 

And as some have said above, against anything but Space marines (3+ and 2+ armour), they are really good. And lets face it, we do fight more armies than just Space marines... 

But even against the space marines, the Taser goads and burst pistol is really great. Well not an autowin which some might be looking for, but good enough in an army list you bring when you don't know who or what your going to face. 

 

Against AM infantry they are just great. I had to hold of with my shooting with the infiltrators as they killed way to many before they charged in (making me fail my charge roll). 

With that said, the burst pistol is a great weapon vs hord units. 

[Vel'Cona]

I love the models anyway (yes, even the dome hats), but I'm very happy with the general application of Sicarians.  They're not a hammer or "auto-win" unit that you can just throw at the opponent and do well (looking at you, Grav Cents and Wraithknights); you have to plan their job ahead of time and avoid hard counters where available.

 

In terms of those hard counters, the biggest threat to Sicarians is anything that can shoot at S6 or higher (since this will ignore their 2 Wounds, FnP, and generally their 4+ save as well).  Blocking terrain is essential, as are intervening units.  Since Sicarians are so dang fast in every type of movement, I think their best role is counter-assault and surprise attacks, as many opponents will position high firepower units at mid range thinking themselves safe, only to be charged by a mob of gangly killers out of nowhere!

[Frater Cornelius]

The Grey Knight flamer is the worst. It ignores their cover, armour and is S6. But I agree, they look great for counter-assault and hunting back-field units. I can literally taste the glee when they hack themselves though a bunch of Ork Mek Guns.

[Terminus]

What unit sizes are folks running?

 

I've been able to fit 5 Interceptors (and frankly with Flechettes, Tasers and Pater Radium, they can put out a horrendous amount of pain) and 7 Ruststalkers in my current list.

[Frater Cornelius]

5 Infiltrators with Taser/Uzis, Omniscent Mask alongside two units of 3 Dragoons is what I am planning for the next two games. Those three units instead of a Kastelan unit because I can use the mobility and a bit of MSU to stop alpha strike.

[Terminus]

I can't decide whether I want to buy the dragoons (I love the little guy built into it, but the saddle and rider are super derpy), or just convert my 6 Vorax that I will probably never use. I'm also finding it hard not to use the Power of the Omnissiah formation, because 650 points of free wargear is hard to say no to.

[Vel'Cona]

For my money, I prefer minimum units of Infiltrators due both to their points cost and the need to have a small unit for ease of Infiltration (small footprint).  Ruststalkers, on the other hand, will need some ablative wounds (since you can't use deployment tricks with them), especially once they get into combat.  I think a unit of 8-10 Ruststalkers would be solid, though I'd highly recommend giving them The Omniscient Mask at this point so your 240-300 point investment doesn't run after they lose a few guys.  This has the side effect of giving their melee attacks (including Grenades) a re-roll, to boot!

[Brother Amarel]

I've not run Ruststalkers yet, but 6 Infiltrators (with Phosphoenix) have done pretty well. I'm not sure I'd like to start with them on the table, but re-rolling edges for infiltrating ones has been key in getting them somewhere disruptive.

[Chucknags]

What about the sicarian killclade? Worth it or over kill?

[Vel'Cona]

The problem with the Killclade is the inherent "tax" of three Ruststalker units. Given the buffs provided, it makes sense since the Ruststalkers will be able to get to combat much more easily and the Infiltrators will have a much larger effect on the opponent. The problem comes back to the need to have large units of Ruststalkers to get the most out of them (since they can run if they lose 2 guys in minimum units). If it was 2 units of Stalkers and a unit of Infiltrators, it would be a much easier buy-in, but the third unit makes the whole package very expensive (to the tune of 665 points before upgrades or additional models!).

It's a neat idea, and the buffs are very good, but this is a huge chunk borrowed from your total list. It'll be hard to build a decent firebase to cover these guys with them taking up so many points of your army! For comparison, a Kastelan Robot Maniple w/ 2 extra 'Bots and an extra Datasmith is about 665 points w/ full upgrades.

[Marshal Ommadon]

I've been using a 5 man Infiltrator and a 5 man Ruststalker squads (tax for a War Convocation).  I use them as counter-charge units to help Rangers/Vanguards/Breachers/Destroyers handle the inevitable CC they usually get into.  I play them with much finesse, though the fact that in a War Convocation Canticles apply to them helps make up for their short comings (I can get the Shrouded Canticle to stack with the Infiltrators Stealth).  Plus all upgrades are free so a simple 5 man squads can do some damage in a War Convocation!

[Vel'Cona]

Wow, good point! I forgot that the War Convocation gives Sicarians access to Canticles. To some extent, that is probably a bigger buff than the Killclade in general practice, and might even make me want to take more than minimum Sicarian units! My CultMech codex needs to hurry up and get here, I still haven't had a chance to read through all the Canticles yet!!!

[Targetlock]

I've only had one game with my skitarii so far and tried out the infiltrators with uzi and taser combo and yeah really like them, continual pain for my opponent and unit of the match, their speed and sheer amount of attacks was entertaining was use :) 

not sure how to use the Ruststalkers yet as they just don't seem as good as the infiltrators, no deployment abilities, no grenades though the razor and chord claw combo seems quite effective.

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

...no grenades though the razor and chord claw combo seems quite effective.

 

They have grenades... the best in the game I believe

[Vel'Cona]

Righto, Ruststalkers are effectively armed with both Frag and Haywire Grenades, on top of having 3 attacks each that auto wound on 6s with AP2.  One of their attacks is Fleshbane, too, allowing them to threaten even super tough opponents.  Another reason to take them in large units is they drop to flat AP2 on all attacks after the first round, so keeping them locked in combat is paramount!

 

The downside to Rusties is their lack of deployment tricks other than Scouts in the Maniple rules.  Mobility wise, they're just as fast as Infiltrators, though, and since their only form of shooting is a single grenade toss (still not bad) running them isn't as big a problem as it is with the Infiltrators.

 

They're even more vulnerable to getting shot up than Infiltrators since they don't have Stealth, which is why I think access to Canticles (through the War Convocation) could be their saving grace.  Whether or not we'll be willing to pay the extra points to max out their unit when using the Convocation, of course, is another matter . . .

[Mushkilla]

So here's something interesting, why not run a dominus with some ruststalkers, that way they can benefit from canticles and a tank. In return the dominus can benefit from dune strider. Both the dune strider and canticles rules specify units not models.