Sicarian Infiltrators/Ruststalkers in practice

[Targetlock]

 

 

...no grenades though the razor and chord claw combo seems quite effective.

 

They have grenades... the best in the game I believe

 

 

oh oops got them mixed up :)

 

a pricey option could be using the omniscient mask, could keep them around a bit longer.

[Charlo]

So here's something interesting, why not run a dominus with some ruststalkers, that way they can benefit from canticles and a tank. In return the dominus can benefit from dune strider. Both the dune strider and canticles rules specify units not models.

Hmm, interesting, I'd argue that the Dominus doesn't get theDunestrider though, seems off.

[mmimzie]

IT seems off but rules support it actually

 

edit: failing an errata or mixed up rules it is always better just to play RAW for better or worse. Thiers no real way to be fair with the rule otherwise. So maybe next year some time we'll find up the real answer...

[MaulerUK]

Yeah, I'd argue that both Dunestrider, Imperatives & Canticles don't cover joined units from other books as they don't have the special rule themselves.  The rules are fairly poorly worded: "...all models in friendly units with the Doctrina Imperatives rule..." it does specify models but then messes it up with friendly units but I think it just applies to the models with the special rule.

 

Same with Dunestrider; "A unit with this special rule..." doesn't specify models, it's the unit as a whole.  Once a model without Dunestrider joins the whole unit no longer has the rule so one could argue that adding a Dominus to Sicarians loses them their 3" bonus.  Same principle applies to Canticles.

 

 

I've used Sicarians in almost every Skitarii force I've fielded so far and they are stellar.  I never really care what people say about units they've just looked at but never used so I was interested to see how Infils & Stalkers performed.  Ruststalkers are the go-to guys for hunting just about any hard target; they'll charge units in cover with no probs, get one Haywire attack per model vs vehicles, plus a Fleshbane attack and then AP5 w/Rending followed by AP2.  They don't handle blobs as well as Infiltrators but they're very capable against Elites that aren't assault specialists themselves.  Infiltrators are great for blobs when using tasers and pistols; 25 shots minimum before charging is nothing to sniff at, and their aura, average save & FNP go a long way to mitigate high volumes of incoming attacks.

 

If anything I think that taser Infils may be too strong; I had a unit with two + Princeps remaining get charged by a Deff Dread, over three rounds one Infiltrator was lost and the remaining two glanced the AV12 Dread to death with the aid of the Princeps' conversion field.

 

I never, ever leave home without a conversion field on the leader of a unit I expect to get into melee, my Vanguard & both Sicarians always take them.  Forcing low initiative units like Orks & Necrons to hit on 5s in combat is staggeringly powerful, especially when it effects walkers also.

[mmimzie]

Yeah, I'd argue that both Dunestrider, Imperatives & Canticles don't cover joined units from other books as they don't have the special rule themselves.  The rules are fairly poorly worded: "...all models in friendly units with the Doctrina Imperatives rule..." it does specify models but then messes it up with friendly units but I think it just applies to the models with the special rule.

 

Same with Dunestrider; "A unit with this special rule..." doesn't specify models, it's the unit as a whole.  Once a model without Dunestrider joins the whole unit no longer has the rule so one could argue that adding a Dominus to Sicarians loses them their 3" bonus.  Same principle applies to Canticles.

 

 

I've used Sicarians in almost every Skitarii force I've fielded so far and they are stellar.  I never really care what people say about units they've just looked at but never used so I was interested to see how Infils & Stalkers performed.  Ruststalkers are the go-to guys for hunting just about any hard target; they'll charge units in cover with no probs, get one Haywire attack per model vs vehicles, plus a Fleshbane attack and then AP5 w/Rending followed by AP2.  They don't handle blobs as well as Infiltrators but they're very capable against Elites that aren't assault specialists themselves.  Infiltrators are great for blobs when using tasers and pistols; 25 shots minimum before charging is nothing to sniff at, and their aura, average save & FNP go a long way to mitigate high volumes of incoming attacks.

 

If anything I think that taser Infils may be too strong; I had a unit with two + Princeps remaining get charged by a Deff Dread, over three rounds one Infiltrator was lost and the remaining two glanced the AV12 Dread to death with the aid of the Princeps' conversion field.

 

I never, ever leave home without a conversion field on the leader of a unit I expect to get into melee, my Vanguard & both Sicarians always take them.  Forcing low initiative units like Orks & Necrons to hit on 5s in combat is staggeringly powerful, especially when it effects walkers also.

as per what i read in the special rules section: '.... unless otherwise stated, a model does not have a special rule'

 

Also on the movement page it states individual models can move at different rates. so i'd say the siciarian in the unit could still dune stride as need. so long as the tech priest can stay with in 2" of them. 

 

as far as canticles work. i'd say you would get 1 more 'unit' with canticles as far as canticle strength goes, however, the siciarians would not benefit from its affects only the tech priest would.

[vadafallon]

So with the Rust stalkers you can throw one grenade during shooting, rush in and throw 5-10 more depending on how many you have in your group right? It says per model in CC not per unit. I need some clarification on use of grenades. 

[mmimzie]

So from what I'm remembering in the big book of rules. You can throw one grenade in shooting and use however many you have in cc.

[DeStinyFiSh]

 

as far as canticles work. i'd say you would get 1 more 'unit' with canticles as far as canticle strength goes, however, the siciarians would not benefit from its affects only the tech priest would.

 

 

I think the shrouded and fearless canticles count for the unit as well, because these two special rules say "when a model in the unit" (or something like that), so the Tech Priest would transfer these rules to the Sicarians.

[Vel'Cona]

Does he get to Infiltrate with them and take advantage of their Scout rule (if in the Skitarii Detachment/Formations), too?  I can't recall if these are shared rules or not.

[heron]

 

 

as far as canticles work. i'd say you would get 1 more 'unit' with canticles as far as canticle strength goes, however, the siciarians would not benefit from its affects only the tech priest would.

 

 

I think the shrouded and fearless canticles count for the unit as well, because these two special rules say "when a model in the unit" (or something like that), so the Tech Priest would transfer these rules to the Sicarians.

 

 

From my reading, you would not get any extra units in counting for Canticles, since the Dominus is extending his own special rule to the unit he joins, but it is correct that the infiltrators or ruststalkers would be able to get shrouded/stealth, which is pretty solid.

 

Likewise, he can infiltrate and scout with the unit, since both of them require only "at least one model" with the special rule.

 

I have been considering adding the Dominus to my infiltrators for this very reason....

[Vel'Cona]

That's pretty rad.  You know, he could bring IWND for them too, for what that's worth.

[DeStinyFiSh]

I think that is not very useful, he is already able to restore 1 wound on a roll of 2+ instead of shooting a weapon. This should be good enough to bring 1 Sicarian back to 2 wounds, IWND in addition won't do much most of the time.

[Vel'Cona]

Fair enough!