Yodhrin Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 This has been bugging me for a while, but particularly since I finished Tech-Priest last night; why did GW go with such generic names for Skitarii infantry? I can see the logic/thought process behind most of the other names for units; Kastelans and Kataphrons are named for IP reasons because Castelans and Praetorians aren't as protectable, the varieties of Electropriests have names that hint at their background, the Ironstriders have names that speak to their roles while nodding(in one case) to existing background, and the Sicarians are a clever wee historical reference(look up the Sicarii on wikipedia). But "Vanguard" and "Rangers"? They're just so...blech, bland, and also already used to refer to other 40K units in different armies. The novel sharpened by disquiet because it includes loads of cool wee portmanteaus and Classical corruptions that refer to the units, like "Radiphracts" and "Hyspatoi"(the two I'll be using); it seems like whoever wrote the 'dex spent a decent amount of time & effort naming everything else but when it came to the infantry ran out of ideas and, rather than ask BL authors or others for suggestions just said " it" and went for low-hanging fruit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think, unfortunately, it boils down to sales and how easily marketable a unit name is. "Vanguard" and "Rangers" purposes are easily identifiable, even to teenagers and kids. Names which the likes of you and me would revel in, like "Radiphracts" for example, require an explanation. Least effort, most gain. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4069962 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mippie Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I think there is an element about what they actually do as well...in the books the vanguard are always at the front, forging through fire to punish the enemy, where as the rangers are described as scouting and using specialist skills to assassinate leaders and enemy weapon crews/teams...so in that respect I think they work quite well Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4069965 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mippie Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Also, it was tres annoying the way they suggested the corpisarii electric Blasts were interfering with the dominuses suit but don't do anything of the sort in game :-( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4069992 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Low Gothic= modern English(Vangaurd) Langautechna= tech priest speak(Radaphracts) That's my thought anyway. And what Olis said. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070045 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 What's cool is you can call your units whatever you like in your army list as long as you make it clear what they're representing. I guess I can understand wanting unique names, but coming from IG where we have "Infantry Platoons" and "Veterans", I feel that AdMech has plenty of originality in its naming schemes already. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070208 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted June 3, 2015 Author Share Posted June 3, 2015 Hmm. I suppose it wouldn't have been as stark to me if they'd picked generic names they'd not used before. And if I didn't have a sneaking suspicion we'd have got something a bit more awesome out of the basic infantry kit/fluff for it if GW didn't insist on shoehorning almost everything into a dual-kit these days. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070341 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 I still think that onager means donkey in Latin like they knew how ugly the model is. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070360 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mippie Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Onager was a name for a catapult also no? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Guess I'm in the minority, then. I love the dual kits for the flexibility they bring for the cost (value added to GW's outrageous plastic prices) and I don't mind losing a bit of "character" since that can always be converted in through head-swaps, sculpting work and varied paint jobs. Additionally, I'm a HUGE fan of the Onager's aesthetic, but I love classic sci-fi and I think the overall look of the AdMech army (including Cult Mech) is meant to channel the H.G. Wells style. I can understand where some would prefer sleek designs, but IMO that's what xenos are for! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Onager was a name for a catapult also no? In Latin it's translation is wild ass. It was also a siege engine. Am I the only one who doesn't like the look of the onager dunecrawler? Personally I like the crab walker but I don't like the top half. I probalby will go for a destiny devil walker look. https://www.google.com/search?q=devil+walker&safe=active&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS601US601&hl=en-US&sboxchip=Shopping&biw=320&bih=492&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=p3JvVfzyLoLKoASkmYPIBw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg#imgrc=co2iEu1Dy9z3AM%253A%3BUUsRvUvJO4YxuM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb20130102200650%252Fdestinypedia%252Fimages%252Fthumb%252F7%252F7a%252FFallen_Devil_Walker_Concept_Art.jpg%252F500px-Fallen_Devil_Walker_Concept_Art.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fdestiny.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FWalker%3B500%3B281 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olis Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Guess I'm in the minority, then. I love the dual kits for the flexibility they bring for the cost (value added to GW's outrageous plastic prices) and I don't mind losing a bit of "character" since that can always be converted in through head-swaps, sculpting work and varied paint jobs. Additionally, I'm a HUGE fan of the Onager's aesthetic, but I love classic sci-fi and I think the overall look of the AdMech army (including Cult Mech) is meant to channel the H.G. Wells style. I can understand where some would prefer sleek designs, but IMO that's what xenos are for! While I'm not a big fan of how some of the weapons look, I like the overall aesthetic of the new Mechanicus kits. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070457 Share on other sites More sharing options...
frostbite Posted June 3, 2015 Share Posted June 3, 2015 Onager was a name for a catapult also no? In Latin it's translation is wild ass. It was also a siege engine. Fitting, considering the Onager is based on the M.U.L.E. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4070479 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted June 4, 2015 Author Share Posted June 4, 2015 Guess I'm in the minority, then. I love the dual kits for the flexibility they bring for the cost (value added to GW's outrageous plastic prices) and I don't mind losing a bit of "character" since that can always be converted in through head-swaps, sculpting work and varied paint jobs. Additionally, I'm a HUGE fan of the Onager's aesthetic, but I love classic sci-fi and I think the overall look of the AdMech army (including Cult Mech) is meant to channel the H.G. Wells style. I can understand where some would prefer sleek designs, but IMO that's what xenos are for! Oh you mistake my intent; overall I like the Mechanicus models, and any objections I have are not because they're not "sleek" enough but rather that they could be whackier and more Blanche-esque - I was originally hoping we'd see the kind of feral, gene-bulked, implant-ridden cyber-psychos depicted in Titanicus etc for the Skitarii, so them going the "Tech Guard" route, even well executed as it is, was a bit of a disappointment. The issue I have with dual-kits is I can never trust GW's motivations. Their basic existence relies on a degree of cynical calculation(how to create the impression of increased value and variety while expending as little actual effort as possible), so I always struggle to believe that the result is positive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4071052 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I see your point. I suppose I came at the army without too much prior knowledge of the background (having never read much of the AdMech literature) so I was happy with what we got. On the other hand, knowing as much as I did about BA made their 5th edition release a huge shock for me (I still don't like Sanguinary Guard). I suppose that lack of expectations made me an easier mark for GW's marketing on Skitarii! I get where you're coming from on the dual kits, too. Don't get me wrong, I trust GeeDub's motivations in regard to model design/packaging/sprue distribution about as much as I trust a Tau. It's hard not to get cynical when you see releases like the Electro-Priests and realize very quickly that you are intended to get 3-4 boxes just to field one unit of these guys. To some extent, I think the dual-kits run the gamut of good value and nonsense; for every Sicarian kit (which has a pile of great optional bits) you get a Skitarii box (which doesn't give you enough to fully load up your models). It's a mixed bag, really. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4071501 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atia Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 This has been bugging me for a while, but particularly since I finished Tech-Priest last night; why did GW go with such generic names for Skitarii infantry? I can see the logic/thought process behind most of the other names for units; Kastelans and Kataphrons are named for IP reasons because Castelans and Praetorians aren't as protectable, the varieties of Electropriests have names that hint at their background, the Ironstriders have names that speak to their roles while nodding(in one case) to existing background, and the Sicarians are a clever wee historical reference(look up the Sicarii on wikipedia). But "Vanguard" and "Rangers"? They're just so...blech, bland, and also already used to refer to other 40K units in different armies. The novel sharpened by disquiet because it includes loads of cool wee portmanteaus and Classical corruptions that refer to the units, like "Radiphracts" and "Hyspatoi"(the two I'll be using); it seems like whoever wrote the 'dex spent a decent amount of time & effort naming everything else but when it came to the infantry ran out of ideas and, rather than ask BL authors or others for suggestions just said " it" and went for low-hanging fruit. as i would need the "better" names for my 30k skitarii project .... radiphracts = vanguard hyspatoi = rangers is that correct? haven't read the new mechanicus novels yet :P Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4085416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yodhrin Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yep bang-on Atia. They're used as "unit names" like "7th Blahblabby Radiphracts" and the book still calls them Vanguard often, but I prefer those ones so much my head-canon adjusted the moment I read them, heh. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4086013 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I think there is an element about what they actually do as well...in the books the vanguard are always at the front, forging through fire to punish the enemy, where as the rangers are described as scouting and using specialist skills to assassinate leaders and enemy weapon crews/teams...so in that respect I think they work quite well The forerunners of any Mechanicus Exploration Fleet, the Rangers are first to step into the unknown. They are accompanied by the towering and surprisingly nimble Dunewalkers, to whom they are linked via noospheric data tethers, linking their senses into one cohesive, inescapable awareness. More than allowing them to direct the withering firepower of their rifles and heavy weapons with surgical precision, the Dunewalkers feed a constant stream of data from the Rangers' sensoria to the rest of the war maniple. When hostile forces, indigent populations, or other undesirable factors present themselves, the Vanguard are never far behind, appraised en route of the tactical situation, ready to bathe the enemies of the Omnissiah in blessed rays of radphage, plasma, and searing lightning. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4086064 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battybattybats Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Onager was a name for a catapult also no? In Latin it's translation is wild ass. It was also a siege engine. Am I the only one who doesn't like the look of the onager dunecrawler? Personally I like the crab walker but I don't like the top half. I probalby will go for a destiny devil walker look. https://www.google.com/search?q=devil+walker&safe=active&rlz=1CDGOYI_enUS601US601&hl=en-US&sboxchip=Shopping&biw=320&bih=492&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=p3JvVfzyLoLKoASkmYPIBw&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAg#imgrc=co2iEu1Dy9z3AM%253A%3BUUsRvUvJO4YxuM%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fimg2.wikia.nocookie.net%252F__cb20130102200650%252Fdestinypedia%252Fimages%252Fthumb%252F7%252F7a%252FFallen_Devil_Walker_Concept_Art.jpg%252F500px-Fallen_Devil_Walker_Concept_Art.jpg%3Bhttp%253A%252F%252Fdestiny.wikia.com%252Fwiki%252FWalker%3B500%3B281 I didn't like the leaked image of the Onager as it looked too square but when i saw that the front panel has a curve to it i found i liked it. I am hoping Forgeworld give us a variant top half at some point though, with some of the raised edge decorative elements on the top half that are on the armour on the legs or the cog-border decoration as found on the Styrix and Mageara or maybe some big stylised skull because as cool as walking spider-legged tanks are walking spider-legged skull tanks could be even cooler if the sculptor does it well, and going by the abeyant i'm sure Forgeworld could do that. There's also a skull-shaped flying vehicle of some sort on page 117 of Shield of Baal Leviathan which could be cool, though at the possible scale it might be too big for a fighter or bomber. But it could prove to be the inspiration for an eventual Mechanicus flyer. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4086595 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Am I the only one who doesn't like the look of the onager dunecrawler? Personally I like the crab walker but I don't like the top half. I probalby will go for a destiny devil walker look. Funnily enough I was really unsure about the Onager when I saw the pics. I took the plunge and picked one up to magnetise and it's actually a lot better than it looks in photos; it was a lot smaller than I expected, there's a load of subtle details to it and the front glacis plate has a curve to it which gives it a much better aesthetic than I expected while still retaining features that tie it in with Rhino & Land Raider STC pattern vehicles. See if you can get to see one properly and see if it swings you at all? I left half of the reactor housing off the rear of mine to make it slightly more compact and plus it looked a bit...unsightly. lol I didn't like the leaked image of the Onager as it looked too square but when i saw that the front panel has a curve to it i found i liked it. I am hoping Forgeworld give us a variant top half at some point though, with some of the raised edge decorative elements on the top half that are on the armour on the legs or the cog-border decoration as found on the Styrix and Mageara or maybe some big stylised skull because as cool as walking spider-legged tanks are walking spider-legged skull tanks could be even cooler if the sculptor does it well, and going by the abeyant i'm sure Forgeworld could do that. There's also a skull-shaped flying vehicle of some sort on page 117 of Shield of Baal Leviathan which could be cool, though at the possible scale it might be too big for a fighter or bomber. But it could prove to be the inspiration for an eventual Mechanicus flyer. This! :D I think that the original M.U.L.E. template didn't have the ornamented armour plates that the Onager's legs do and as part of the Onager's evolution the armour was added to the vulnerable motive gear? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308689-discussion-why-generic-names-for-skitarii/#findComment-4088018 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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