Brother Raul Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 OK brothers time for another stupid question; can someone please explain sweeping advance, or as it is now sweeping attack, in words other than how Geedubs has worded it? Would greatly appreciate it. Looking to maybe make a barebones 10 man van vet squad just to achieve this if its as good as I think it could be. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 4, 2015 Share Posted June 4, 2015 I know of no rule called "Sweeping Attack". Sweeping Advance is performed when a unit in combat fails its morale check and there are two outcomes: either your prey gets away or your destroy them (unless they have ATSKNF in which case, the fight continues next player turn). The only rule Vanguard Veterans have is Heroic Intervention, which is in no way related to Sweeping Advance. Sorry to say, but I think you're confusing something. Can I ask what your trail of thought is with the VVs? Only you might still be on to something, just not with Sweeping Advance :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Thanks Jolemai, definitely had my wires crossed. Actually don't own a copy of 7th ed and had come across something online that made me think such a thing existed. Missleading info on the internet, who would have thought possiable? Trying to get my head around multi charging with van vets, any thoughts? I was thinking 10 man squad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Heroic Intervention allows for VAS (VVs) to ignore the penalties for a disordered charge. This means, should your VAS charge 2+ units they get to Keep their generic +1 ATK charge bonus Keep their +1 STR bonus for Furious Charge Keep their +1 INT for The Red Thirst (if you are using a BSF) Keep any other bonus that you'd normally lose for a Disordered Charge So the question is, how to utilise/abuse this? VAS currently excel at holding the enemy up, so a sprinkling of storm shields and melta bombs is often a wise choice, usually with a power weapon thrown onto a non-shielded model. So if ten, perhaps 3-4 storm shields, 2-3 lightning claws and melta bombs? Also, you can probably get away with as little as seven models should you need to save points. Note that Heroic Intervention only applies to the VAS. So if a Character joins them, he will lose the above benefits should the unit perform a Disordered Charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Something that confuses me is that we're clearly aware we shouldn't be overspending on Death Company and yet, when people look at building a Vanguard Veteran squad, they put on so many bells and whistles the squad becomes insanely expensive. Annoyingly, I do this myself. Let's look at them as we'd look at Death Company! What do you think about a ten-man Vanguard Veteran squad with just two storm shields and a power weapon of choice? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 In my above example, they can completely do without the LCs. It's just a bit of flavour. People suggest not overdoing it on DC because they are a fire magnet and that they don't really need it. VAS do a different job, so different rules apply. At least that's my view! Just remember, I'm some random the internet ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I have to agree DC already hit harder than a sack of bricks they don't need much because of the massive amount of attacks... They are a big hammer that will smash everything. VAS need a little nudge and I see them as more of a finesse unit the stabbing blade in our arsenal you have to pick the right time and place to slide it between our enemy's ribs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fahlnor Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I always thought of them as a bully unit. You'd use them to tie up multiple units in your opponent's backfield without necessarily needing to kill them. Heroic Intervention lets you do that. Alternatively, you could go balls-to-the-wall and kit them out with ALL OF THE WARGEAR and go murder stuff, but dang they're expensive. I also just the concept of them. Purely for the Rule of Cool I'd love to use a squad. Le sigh.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 I kinda think Van vets tooled with a SP would be equally as good as DC. I was looking at a 10 man van vets with x2 stormsheilds and the rest as basics. Figure a 10 man squad would pull off multi charges better than a smaller one. The question for me is how usefull/ situational this investment in points would be in 7th. Any experience? I think the 210pts might be good to tie up x2+ points in a single round to then smash with x2 DC squads. Ideas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I'm building my Vanguards with the sole purpose of taking them in the formation that gives them free power weapons. I've got one unit so far that has: Sgt: Power Sword and Storm Shield Pair of Lightning Claws Power Sword and pistol. Power Sword and pistol. Power Sword and pistol. Not sure how to build up the second unit tho. On a related not, I've recently being playing against Lots of Grey Knights, Tyranids and Daemons (ie, lots of Monsterous creatures) and I'd love to make a dedicated Anti Monster Vanguard unit. What would you guys reccomend? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nova_chron Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I have a unit with SS and Lightning claws on everyone that runs with a valours edge captain and a Spriest its costly but they are going to be my monster hunters they actually are my pledge in ETL I just have to get photos from my phone to a hosting site or make a gallery here I'm still trying to figure that out.... I'll post results after they have had a chance to get into something big and meaty I know for any 2+save MC I would be better served by a Pfist or Hammer but I just went with rule of cool as the kit makes some awesome poses for mid charge or jump pack insertion with lightning claws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 Heroic Intervention allows for VAS (VVs) to ignore the penalties for a disordered charge. This means, should your VAS charge 2+ units they get to Keep their generic +1 ATK charge bonus Keep their +1 STR bonus for Furious Charge Keep their +1 INT for The Red Thirst (if you are using a BSF) Keep any other bonus that you'd normally lose for a Disordered Charge So the question is, how to utilise/abuse this? VAS currently excel at holding the enemy up, so a sprinkling of storm shields and melta bombs is often a wise choice, usually with a power weapon thrown onto a non-shielded model. So if ten, perhaps 3-4 storm shields, 2-3 lightning claws and melta bombs? You only get 1A at S8 with a melta bomb so heroic intervention is somewhat wasted if you use these. I rather like the idea of 4 SS and 6 PF/TH so make a squad of flying hammernators. Hideously expensive but they make excellent monsters and should even be able to drop a Wraithknight in a couple of rounds of combat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 The MC hunting role is great for Van vets, melta bombs! Also if you buy the lightning claws of Geedubs and kit bash the new tacs AND some asms (new conversion kits has laurel wreathed helms, yaay!) you can make a vets squad easily. I am making a van vets sarge in gold nipple armour- figure he's off to the Sanguinary guard next if he's lucky, or to DC if he's not! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Ok, so plan for after payday: Breacher shields from forgeworld. Lightning Claws from GW webstore Deathcompany box from FLGS. Storm Shield Claw Vets! Wut wut! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'm building my Vanguards with the sole purpose of taking them in the formation that gives them free power weapons. I've got one unit so far that has: Sgt: Power Sword and Storm Shield Pair of Lightning Claws Power Sword and pistol. Power Sword and pistol. Power Sword and pistol. Not sure how to build up the second unit tho. On a related not, I've recently being playing against Lots of Grey Knights, Tyranids and Daemons (ie, lots of Monsterous creatures) and I'd love to make a dedicated Anti Monster Vanguard unit. What would you guys reccomend? You need full 10 man squads for the formation But on monsters, a Grav pistol won't go unnoticed, concussing the target! Axes are your friend too as they are covered in the free bit and give Str6 on the charge. Mauls are good too for S7 at Initiative but only AP4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 It's 2 full squads of 10, right? not so bad I guess... Hows about: SQUAD 1 Sgt. Powersword and Storm Shield 4x Stormshield and Powersword 5x Bolt Pistol and Powersword SQUAD 2 Sgt. Grav pistol and Powermaul 3x Stormshield a Lightningclaw 1x Duel Lightning claws 5x Bolt Pistol and Poweraxe Spare Maces and Axes are could be hard to get hold of... hmmm. Its a shame Thunderhammers arnt free for the upgrdes, I have so many lying around. Put that with the Storm Raven with Hurricane bolters and a 10 Man Sterngurn squad kitted out: Sgt. Powersowrd, combimelta 4x Combimelta 5x combiplasma and the whole formation comes in at just a tiny smidge over 1000 points. Viable? I think so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 I'd always put in a couple axes with the swords! Incase you find some AP2 nasties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted June 10, 2015 Author Share Posted June 10, 2015 My problem with that formation is that the angels fury formation is only 920 points, and you get x3 stormraven & tacticals AND the whole assault from reserves thing. I suggest anyone read the post on this forum r.e its viability. I LOVE IT AND WANT TO HAVE ITS BABY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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