Pudelhund Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I was at the GW shop today and I was lamenting to another Militarum player about the limitations of Leman Russ variants with ordnance weaponry (MBT, Demolisher). He said it isn't a problem if you take an Engineseer. You can fire all the non-ordnance weaponry on the vehicle and then have the Engineseer confer Power of the Machine Spirit so the vehicle can fire its last weapon, the ordnance weapon, at full BS. I have a few questions about this: 1) How close does the Engineseer need to be? 2) How is this actually performed? Does he need to roll dice or something to pass a test? 3) If he does this, can he do anything else in the same turn? If he can't then repair a vehicle or engage in combat in the same turn, then it seems like a really expensive way to band-aid an otherwise avoidable problem. I ask because my 1500 point list features Pask's squadron of Executioners being babysat by an Enginesser with servitors, so it would be cool to extend the utility of the Engineseer by having him help out MBT/Demolisher tanks I could take. Thanks in advance, Pudelhund Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 It's instead of shooting his weapons he can give Power of the Machine Spirit to a friendly AM vehicle within 12" no dice rolling just declare it in the shooting phase. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4074826 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudelhund Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 Also related question: Can an Engineseer and his servitors take a Chimera? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4074833 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't see why not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4074839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOneMarshal Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 An engineer can't buy a dedicated chimera unfortunately. However he's free to hijack one from an infantry squad. Also I though of you POTMS the heavy bolters would still snap fire? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4074845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 1. Doesn't work. Enginseer lets you split fire weapon, but the ordnance shot still means the other guns are snap firing. 2. If it did work, it just serves to make an already lackluster vehicle worse, now costing 200+ points and counting as two KP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4074913 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Agreed this is why i've moved away from ordnance weapons and stick with Punisher's and Vanquishers. Occasionally Demolishers but with out sponsons. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075006 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 PotMS doesn't override the ordnance rule so while the weapon can fire at a different target it still snap fires. Take Enginseers to keep armour in the fight, being able to grant PotMS is a very nice bonus - for the right target of course! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 I don't see why not. Really? Maybe because the codex doesn't give that unit the option... Agreed this is why i've moved away from ordnance weapons and stick with Punisher's and Vanquishers. Occasionally Demolishers but with out sponsons. I don't even give my non-ordnance tanks sponsons...well, if I ran a punisher or an exterminator, I might...but even my Paskquisher has slick sides...so many tanks, so little room in my deployment zone! Can't afford to make each of them 2" wider! Plus, without sponsons, I can fit three tanks abreast on top of a skyshield, muahahahaha! (and a squadron of wyverns behind! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudelhund Posted June 7, 2015 Author Share Posted June 7, 2015 So the dude was full of it? The PotMS wouldn't be able to fire the ordnance if the non-ordnance were fired first? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075358 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 He was wrong, yes. When in doubt ask for a rules check - if you can't prove a rule exists then it doesn't ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075484 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukash_ Posted June 7, 2015 Share Posted June 7, 2015 Imperial Armor gives rules which allow a tech-priest to take a Trojan Support Vehicle for 7 meltabombs as a dedicated transport. The vehicle also grants Preferred Enemy to a single tank: very useful for those Executioners (or any tank with Plasma Sponsons.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075580 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I bet when that IA book gets updated, that goes away... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4075926 Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommissarZac Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't see why not. Really? Maybe because the codex doesn't give that unit the option... Funny, I read the Dedicated transport rule. And no where does it say I can't have an Independent Character, join a transport. Nor does it say I can't purchase a transport for my independent characters. Worse comes to worse, just kick out an infantry squad and hijack a chimera to keep them tanks rolling. LOL And I usually try to run sponsons just to have back ups on the off chance one of the guns miss. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4076092 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 8, 2015 Share Posted June 8, 2015 I don't see why not. Really? Maybe because the codex doesn't give that unit the option... Funny, I read the Dedicated transport rule. And no where does it say I can't have an Independent Character, join a transport. Nor does it say I can't purchase a transport for my independent characters. Worse comes to worse, just kick out an infantry squad and hijack a chimera to keep them tanks rolling. LOL And I usually try to run sponsons just to have back ups on the off chance one of the guns miss. ~sigh~ Some units have access to dedicated transports specified in their unit listings...that being the case, it's obvious that those units without dedicated transports in their unit listings don't have dedicated transports. I also don't see where it says that a commissar can't have a lascannon, by your logic that means he can have one! And in no way did I say an IC can't join another unit in its transport or ride solo in an empty one after the game starts...I only said an IC can't purchase his own dedicated transport unless it's an option in his unit listing. So the dude was full of it? The PotMS wouldn't be able to fire the ordnance if the non-ordnance were fired first? It has nothing to do with timing. It doesn't say you snap-fire other weapons AFTER shooting ordnance, it says you snap-fire other weapons IF shooting ordnance. There are no magic-the-gathering timing tricks to be played here! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4077724 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pudelhund Posted June 9, 2015 Author Share Posted June 9, 2015 And no where does it say I can't have an Independent Character, join a transport. Nor does it say I can't purchase a transport for my independent characters. That is backwards logic. The rules are clearly written in the positive, not the negative. You don't assume you can do something because it doesn't say you can't. Otherwise, why would it say some units may take a certain vehicle or weapon and not mention it for others? If it didn't say veterans can take a dedicated transport, you wouldn't justify taking one for them because it didn't say you couldn't. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4077929 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Hey, it doesn't say that my DA interrogator chaplain can't have a twinlinked plasma cannon...are you cool with that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4077975 Share on other sites More sharing options...
SW1 Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 The entry for dedicated transports says what it is. It's a unit "dedicated" to a given unit. Rather than list all the rules for the transport where ever you can take it, there's one entry which is referred to when you can take it with a unit. It's just like the argument for taking HWSs or SWSs or conscripts alone without the platoon tax. You just can't, stop trying to bend the rules to suit what you want rather than following them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4078144 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 9, 2015 Share Posted June 9, 2015 Discussing the rules is fine, but please be nice about it. Addressing points with rules and page references is best, not resorting to unhelpful comments. If you really want to get your teeth into rules conundrums don't forget we have an entire section devoted to it Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308864-engineseer-fixing-leman-russ-mbtdemolisher-ordnance/#findComment-4078188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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