New SM codex and its repercussions

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

- You definitely lose Shock Deployment. There's no question. Formation rules are clear to me on this.

 

How does the Formation enter play then, if you stick an IC into one of the Devs Drop Pods?

 

 

 

I probably won't play this formation... it's just really not plausible in our local events since most require 'proper' documentation of the rules you're bringing. (IE: no low rez ripped off GIF on a phone allowed typically.)

 

Shame on GW for sticking the rules into a pricy bundle.  When most folk have enough units to run this Formation without needing to purchase anything new.

 

Day DLC indeed...

[Prot]

The rules for a drop pod still function... as a drop pod.

 

The formation specific rules, are only for the formation. Only formations with special rules that can be 'shared' outside the formation are typically specified as such.

 

- this is just me, but I would not stick any IC in those pods, for risk of losing the relentless rule or whatever it is, because the IC would clearly not have it. As far as I know GW would have to specify that it was a shared rule otherwise.

 

You could always ask this in the rules section if you want more thoughts on it?

 

I personally really dislike how GW did this, but that's 'personal' and my own issue.... I refused to buy it simply on principle.

[jeffersonian000]

The light blue text is terribad, please stop doing that.

 

Formations and ICs interact on a unit by unit basis, and on a rule by rule basis. If the rule in question applies to models in the formation, then the non-formation IC does not benefit. If the rule applies to the unit, then IC benefits. It's a permissive rule set, formations give you permission to do things differently. That permission is not trumped by the inclusion of ICs if the permission is inclusive.

 

Take the new Skyhammer formation for example. In IC in one of the Drop Pods still arrives with the Drop Pod due to the rules for Combined Reserved Units. An IC without Deep Strike cannot arrive with the Assault Squads, however, because Deep Strike is not conferred by the Assault Squads or the formation.

 

Now, look at the Cult Mechanicus Holy Requisition formation:

SPECIAL RULES:

• Deep Strike

Apparition Extremis: All models in this Formation must be placed in Deep Strike Reserve. When making Reserve Rolls, make a single roll for the entire Formation, which you can choose to re-roll. On a successful Reserve Roll, all of the units in the Formation arrive from Reserve....

The formation grants Deep Strike to the units in the formation. All models in the formation must start in reserve. All units arrive together.

 

So can an GK Librarian join and arrive with this formation?

 

Yes. Why it can is due to the GK Librarian being an IC in TDA. While Deep Strike from the formation is not conferred to the Libby, the Libby has access to DS via his TDA. Arrival is legal due to both the formation's rule Apparition Extremis, and due to the BRB rules for Combined Reserved Units.

 

TL;DR: it depends on the wording of the rules in question, take each instance on a case by case basis.

 

SJ

[Gentlemanloser]

So if you stick an IC in a Dev Drop Pod, how does the Skyhammer 'Shock Deployment' work?

 

Either, the entire formation still comes in turn 1 or 2, and the Drop Pods ignore the DPA rule limitations.  In which case it literally does not matter that a non formation IC has been attached.

 

Or, as there is a non Formation IC involved, who *cannot* benefit from the 'Shock Deployment' rule in *any* fashion, then this rule has to be ignored, and the entire formation enters play normally.  Rolling foe each unit, the Drop Pods counting for DPA, etc.

 

If it's the first, then in essence, the IC has benefited from the 'Shock Deployment' rule.  Even if it's not eligible to do so.  And however you rule, it doesn't matter if the IC in question embarks a Drop Pod, or Deep Strikes in with the Assault Squads.

 

But I'll go make a OR thread about this. ;)

 

Back to how OP this formation is now please! :P

[angrom]

Shame on GW for sticking the rules into a pricy bundle.  When most folk have enough units to run this Formation without needing to purchase anything new.

 

Day DLC indeed...

 

This is just showing how literally Pay to Win this game is turning with their new economical model.

Seriously i wouldn't be surprise if in the future they are releasing alternatives stats and rules for units in card blisters just like Yu gi ho.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Yeah let's not derail entirely guys. Formation/detachment bonuses is a festering issue for the entire game, it's not unique to Marines. Hopefully GW will wake up and do some errata work on it.

 

One nasty combo I've recently noticed is putting 'Storm of Fire' onto a unit of 3x Thunderfire Cannons. Telion and Tiggy get it by default, and free Rending is pretty insane on a unit that can generate a tonne of hits and wound rolls reliably every turn (12x small blasts). It's also pretty mean putting that same bonus onto a Stalker squadron, as they already Ignore Cover and granting them Rending is utterly absurd (again, a unit that doesn't struggle to generate lots of hits). The latter is cheap and very useful as an Ally, as it can handle Flyers for us. 

[Zembar]

Looks like the new DA get grav as well. And fire overwatch at full BS. And can fire overwatch at units charging friendly units within 24".

 

Fun, no?

[Shadrach03]

Zembar a lot of what you describe is based on formations. The basic rules for DA give them BS2 overwatch.  Full BS overwatch is for the lion's blade and the 24" overwatch is part of a ravenwing formation so only works on units within said formation.

[Gentlemanloser]

Until you drop a Skyhammer and deny them the ability to overwatch.

[Shadrach03]

True facts lol.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Wait, so Ravenwing are getting Supporting Fire in a formation? Lol. Imagine Black Knights doing that to you...urgh

 

At some point, GW is gonna have to let up on hating melee so much. It's getting kinda insane. 

[Gentlemanloser]

24" Supporting Fire mate.  Unlike the puny Tau, who only get 6".

 

Overwatch with Plasma Talons ho!!!

 

Well, unless you've dropped a Skyhammer.  As Dangels have no Interceptor.

[Hexagon Sun]

Well, unless you've dropped a Skyhammer. As Dangels have no Interceptor.

It is in the enhanced edition glossary so something has it, but without seeing the full codex it's a bit of a mystery at the moment.

[Gentlemanloser]

I'm guessing one of the updated fliers. ;)

 

But could be wrong! :P

[Bartali]

Wait, so Ravenwing are getting Supporting Fire in a formation? Lol. Imagine Black Knights doing that to you...urgh

 

At some point, GW is gonna have to let up on hating melee so much. It's getting kinda insane. 

 

I played at my local GW once. Players tend to run their armies at each other while shouting 'Waaaghhh' at each other.

I was playing BA - had a Baal Pred with Prescience on it, and an Ork player ran a squad boys out of cover straight at it. He was way out of assault range, but handly ran into <24" of the Baal Preds guns in the open.

 

I have a feeling that's how they play in GW towers, hence the constant nerfing of the assault phase.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

I played at my local GW once. Players tend to run their armies at each other while shouting 'Waaaghhh' at each other.

I was playing BA - had a Baal Pred with Prescience on it, and an Ork player ran a squad boys out of cover straight at it. He was way out of assault range, but handly ran into <24" of the Baal Preds guns in the open.

 

I have a feeling that's how they play in GW towers, hence the constant nerfing of the assault phase.

 

GW being bad at 40k? Perish the thought ;)

 

I have a feeling someone in the design team has to point on the Nob Biker doll where he got touched in 4th edition. Because this hatred of melee is getting disturbing. Especially when they went to all the time and effort to port the Fantasy challenge mechanics into 40k...and we barely ever get to use them.