Darkmagi Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Something I just noticed with this snap shot of Telion's new rules http://bloodofkittens.com/blog/2015/06/09/rumor-it-tired-reading-german-space-marine-rules/ He seems to have the same rules as the Vindicare. What are peoples thoughts on this as till now everyone has said that the vindicare doesn't work due to the wording of the precision shots rule? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 10, 2015 Share Posted June 10, 2015 Look out, Sir! Still wins? I take it back. This is worded differently to the Vindicare. All his shots are 'Precision Shots', which are a defined term in the Precision Shot USR. Looks like they all count as rolling 6's. (IIRC the Vindicare wording gives all his shots the Precision Shot *rule*. Not that they are all 'Precision Shots'. A subtle difference, compound by the name of the USR being the same as a successful shot type given by the USR...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4081568 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Everon Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 On my phone so can't see half the pic, but from what I can see, telion is 50points, and he's got 2 shots vs 1 but its Not as effective as the 1. If you need him for anti infantry he's worth the 50 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4081896 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 It doesn't matter in either case. They can still Look Out Sir! the hits. Telion's wording suggests he doesn't automatically Precision Shot, he only does so on 6's. The Vindicare does however, as it's rules specify 'all successful rolls to hit (excluding Snap Shots)'. Also, GW spend a paragraph explaining the Vindicare always chooses where to allocate (but of course, like with Telion, you can still Look Out Sir!). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4081990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 Telions rule is different mate. Under the Precision Shot Rule, there is a section that mentions to-hit rolls of 6's being 'Precision Shots'. It's these 'Pecision Shots' that Telion's rule gives. In essence, all his to-hit rolls are counted as rolling a 6. The Vindicare however, has all his shots given the "Precision Shot Rule", which is the USR itself, which tells us that to-hit rolls of a 6 are 'Precision Shots'. The Vindicare does not have all his hits made 'Precision Shots'. If this makes sense. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4082252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 You're wrong, because they addressed that exact issue in the new data-slate; And I quote: "Deadshot: All successful To Hit rolls made by a Vindicare Assassin, excluding Snap Shots, are Precision Shots. Wounds from Precision Shots are allocated against a model (or models) of your choice in the target unit, as long as it is in range and line of sight of the firer, rather than following the normal rules for Wound allocation. A character that has a Precision Shot Wound allocated to it can still make a Look Out, Sir roll. Note that Snap Shots and shots from weapons that scatter, or do not roll To Hit, can never be Precision Shots" pg. 40, WD65 So no, the Vindicare always allocates. But, if the target is a character, they get Look Out Sir! rolls anyway (at -2 however, due to his 'No Escape' special rule) Telion's wording is as follows: "Eye of Vengeance: Shots fired by Sergeant Telion (excluding Snap Shots) are always Precision Shots' pg. 123, Codex: Space Marines So in both cases, the wording is 'you always allocate, then they resolve Look Out Sir! if applicable, unless Snap Shooting'. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4082679 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 11, 2015 Share Posted June 11, 2015 /meh They updated the dataslate with no webiste FAQ update. I'm working from outdated sources. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4082798 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah it's pretty annoying they just stealth FAQ'd the issues of the last one. The new data-slate is otherwise identical. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4083647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yea ty for the update I will have to re-download the data aheet as I didn't know it had been updated. At least the vindicare is finally fixed Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4083693 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yeah it's pretty annoying they just stealth FAQ'd the issues of the last one. The new data-slate is otherwise identical. My iBooks had that little "you've got updates" thing which works better for me than having to check their website for a FAQ. At least they fixed it. The new wording is properly fixed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4083785 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yea I don't use apple products... we don't get those nice things for androids Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4083808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm still really annoyed GW sold out to Apple with all that stuff. Android is killing them in market share, and GW still persist with this elitist relationship with Apple. Really stupid IMO. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4084184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Me, having a samsung phone, not biased in any way. ;) *cough*android ftw*cough* Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4084194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 I'm still really annoyed GW sold out to Apple with all that stuff. Android is killing them in market share, and GW still persist with this elitist relationship with Apple. Really stupid IMO. Android just does not come with nanny attached. You want helpful "you've got updates" reminders get the Apple nanny, if not then carry on with Android which is great in its own slightly different way. I am not sure that a teeny weeny little company like GW would have the slightest influence on either Google or Apple. They just operate in that market as best they can. edit: the real point is that GW worded it badly in the first place, realised their mistake and fixed it. Which is better than not fixing it. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4084611 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah but this is apparently the new way of doing errata. They don't release FAQ's, they just wait a year then re-release the whole thing with minor changes/fixes. Not very transparent or ethical, IMO. Knight-Titan players got shafted pretty hard, with a straight cash grab for a new 'dex and new kit. I hope we're not updated soon, if that's what we can expect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4085100 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy-inquisitor Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah but this is apparently the new way of doing errata. I bought the iBook, it got fixed and all I had to do was wait a minute for the fix to download. For me that is 100% better than a FAQ.- it is less fuss and bother and has a better end result. The knights codex is a different matter entirely. I do not love everything GW do but I genuinely think that someone there saw an opportunity to give a better customer experience with the iBooks and delivered on it. If this is something they sustain I may switch over entirely to this format and never have to carry scrappy FAQ printouts around again. Both the vindicare and Telion have perfectly clear rules now. Snipe away the enemies of the Emperor! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4085293 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gentlemanloser Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well, apart from Look Out Sir still making both fairly useless. But at least the rule is clear, and works. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4085430 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmagi Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Well the vindicare still makes it harder to LoS as he has the -2 to Los rolls so it's an 4+ for IC's and a 6 for non IC charectors so the vindicare is still nice Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4085786 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reclusiarch Darius Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah the Vindicare should be okay normally, -2 is a pretty hefty modifier. IC's are only safe 50% of the time, which combined with him ignoring both armour and cover saves, is pretty scary. Squad leaders have little chance, they only dodge on a 6+. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309096-vindicare-vs-telion/#findComment-4086507 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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