Wyvern VS. DE

[Guardsman1275]

OMG the wyvern is amazing against DE, I killed around half my opponents infantry with 1 wyvern, though I lost the game because he killed just about everything else I had, my question is, is there a reason not to take a wyvern against the DE?

[Father Mehman]

I'm sure someone could come up with something but if it worked for you that's all that matters!

[wulfgar hammerfist]

I take wyverns against everything. It's dirt cheap and piles wounds on squads. Worth every point.

[WarriorFish]

Wyverns are good, but against lightly armoured infantry... well, I guess you already know :lol: DE are weedy so we can take chunks out of them with our fire power, just a matter of keeping the range and not getting outflanked and they can be an easier opponent :)

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, there isn't much in the way of Infantry Wyverns aren't good against. Horde armies and lightly-armoured opponents rightly fear them.

[Emicus]

Post redacted on grounds of being misleading and subjective. Please remove as spam

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I should get a wyvern or 2, after reading this post. Can anyone see a Wyvern being transported via Valkyrie Sky Talon or sling loaded under a regular Valkyrie or Vendetta?

[nismogrendel]

I should get a wyvern or 2, after reading this post. Can anyone see a Wyvern being transported via Valkyrie Sky Talon or sling loaded under a regular Valkyrie or Vendetta?

 

Sounds right to me.  Choppers can carry big loads, surely a Valkyrie or Vendetta is a little stronger than a chopper right?

 

 

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Yeah, I've seen pictures of HH-53's hauling LAV's, and I think I've even seen a Chinook sling load an Abrams, so it doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility. I mainly want the kit so I can have Wyverns and Hydras, because I need some artillery and extra anti air/skimmer. 

[Vel'Cona]

The Wyvern is just an amazing model from a pure cost-benefit analysis, because it can really start doing damage from turn 1 and is consistently able to stack wounds vs. nearly any target. Even when facing down MEQ, the ability to throw 4 templates a turn, re-roll where they land, and re-roll wounds means that Wyverns can wear down even the toughest opponent. When you put 2-3 of them together, it gets even crazier.

Honestly, at their current cost Wyverns are woefully undercosted by 7th edition standards. I'm willing to bet they'll to up to 90-100 points in the next iteration (which makes me sad).

[CoffeeGrunt]

Indeed, though whether Twin-Linking allows you to re-roll the templates after the first is apparently up in the air. I play it as you don't, and it's still very effective though.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

It's 2 twin linked mortars right? I'd say that lets you re-roll scatter on the 2 initial templates, than after that it is what it is. When you scatter a multi shot barrage you just roll a scatter dice and flip the template in that direction correct? Or is there a secondary rule that does that?

[CoffeeGrunt]

It's 2 twin linked mortars right? I'd say that lets you re-roll scatter on the 2 initial templates, than after that it is what it is. When you scatter a multi shot barrage you just roll a scatter dice and flip the template in that direction correct? Or is there a secondary rule that does that?

 

Well you fire one with 2D6 scatter, then the other 1-3 templates just with the scatter.

 

The argument comes under the Twin-Linked rule when discussing re-rolls to Hit and Scatters. I can't cite page numbers as I'm at work, but it states that a weapon that re-rolls to Hit with a Scatter must re-roll Scatter dice and the 2D6 for it. The argument goes that, as the subsequent templates don't roll any D6s, they don't get to re-roll.

 

An FAQ on this matter would be appreciated, but is unlikely. Sadly I think the Wyvern is the only twin-linked artillery piece in the game, aside from Prescience-ing a normal one.

[Father Mehman]

I can't recall how the main IG player used his in my old gaming group. Whichever way throws out the least cheese. By the Throne I miss that group...

[Butcher Braxton]

Oh wyverns, the sad face you get when you take them out of your flightcase at a game is worth it alone

[WarriorFish]

We should give them a nickname in honour of their effectiveness, perhaps something like "the mop"? :lol: Aside from being good units I think they're the epitome of a good Guard army - cheap, effective and drowns the enemy in dice! :D

[Butcher Braxton]

Aside from being good units I think they're the epitome of a good Guard army - cheap, effective and drowns the enemy in dice!

Exactly. :D

[Bionicman]

Aside from being good units I think they're the epitome of a good Guard army - cheap, effective and drowns the enemy in dice!

Exactly.

Sadface <> Trollface :D

But you do pay for wyverns. In terms of determining hits which is a major pain...

[nismogrendel]

Aside from being good units I think they're the epitome of a good Guard army - cheap, effective and drowns the enemy in dice!

Exactly.

Sadface <> Trollface

But you do pay for wyverns. In terms of determining hits which is a major pain...

My idea to determine hits was to take an empty sprue from one of my kits. Something rather large like a Chimera or Russ sprue.

Build 4 legs for it, to raise it about 6-8 inches off the ground.

Take a piece of transparent plastic sheet... like overhead projector sheet or saran wrap or something.

Use the small blast template to target the first shot, scatter it, then use overhead marker to make a circle on the plastic.

Roll scatter, place template, make circle.

Repeat.

When done, look down thru transparency and count hits.

It's ridiculous, clunky and probably not much easier... but I'll give it a shot when I put my wyvern together.

Quick cheeseball diagram:

[WarriorFish]

It is a bit clunky yes, one of the reasons we say you don't want three in a unit (but also totally OTT). I prefer to think of it as more time for your opponent to lament the annihilation of his infantry :P Serves him right for daring to challenge the Guard! :lol:

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I'm seeing a reason for not taking 3 Wyverns. I asked a buddy, who plays guard a lot, about hydras. He said, "You really don't need more than one, two tops." I asked why that was the case, he responded, "You can take a third, I guess it just depends on how bad you want that flyer dead...". I'm seeing that 2 is max effective, with a third just kinda being there to add insult to injury. 

 

I want 2 of them, because of my mantra, 2 is one, and one is none. 

[steellegionnaire85]

I haven't played a game without three of these babies on my side. Three in a squadron is a bit over kill. I know this but three guarantees removing a unit a turn and helps to insure that your wyverns get there points back each game atleast twice their cost.

[WarriorFish]

I imagine firing that squad at an enemy unit turns out to pretty much be asking your opponent to kindly take them off the table...

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I didn't see a lot of wyverns at my last store, but then we didn't see a lot of guard at my last store. The only things I really ever faced were Orks and Dark Angels.

[march10k]

~shrug~  I don't use them because it's like taking candy from a baby.  Not having any is the ultimate get out of jail free card.  "What's that, you say my army is cheesy?  Do you see any wyverns in my list?"  Being cheesy without having wyverns in your list is like having pudding without eating your meat!

 

I'd also like to push back against the idea that they're so horribly deadly to terminators.  That's only true if you're inept.  As long as your terminators are spaced properly, your opponent will find it impossible to get more than two models under each blast marker, and a great many of the markers will have only one, or no, models underneath.  Of course, if you deepstrike and don't run, it's your own fault that your five termies have to make 43 saves! 

 

/edit/  To be more precise, as long as you have your termies at 2" spread, generally in a line, a "hit" on the first blast can only hit one model, and a scatter can't hit more than two.  Thereafter, a scatter will hit one or zero, while a "hit" can be manipulated to hit two models.  Then you have to wound...then a 2+ save...properly spread out termies don't fear wyverns any more than they fear boltguns!