Frater Cornelius Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 My list: Hidden Content CAD - UM Chapter Master - AA, TH, Shield Eternal, Bike Tiggy, da majick man Command Squad - Bikes, 4 Grav, Apothecary 10 Tacs - Plasma, Combi-Plasma, Grav-Cannon, Pod 10 Tacs - Plasma, Combi-Plasma, Grav-Cannon, Pod 10 Tacs - Plasma, Combi-Plasma, Grav-Cannon, Rhino Drop Pod Dev-Centurions - 3 Grav-Cannons, Omniscope TFC TFC 1850pts The basic idea was to capitalize on Tacs and saturate the board with efficient firepower. I chose a CAD, because I consider the Formations to be either too expensive or not having a good unit composition and loads of dead weight (yes, I am looking at you, Demi-Company) In short, it was... tragic... First game was against Foot-dar with D up the arse. WK, WG, Vauls Battery, Guardian Blobs, Reapers, Spiders and Walkers. Anti-MEQ to the extreme. Anyway, I threw the Codex at them and it seemed to work. The first turn saw his knight, guard and battery disappear and his war walkers and on guardian blob crippled after the strategic application of the Devastator Doctrine and tactical overZEAL. After that, he had a hard time getting back in. I did lose one Tac squad which I sacrificed by landing them right in the middle of the Eldar to take out the battery, and two Centurions. The second Tac pod arrived and the Rhino unit was at optimal range, so I activated the Tactical Doctrine with extreme prejudice. The bike unit shot and charged the second Guardian Blob, sweeping them in the end. He had so few functioning units left that he conceded after his second turn. Second game was against a Khorne Daemonkin, who prepared for his next tournament. When I first saw the army, I had to think long and hard about how the hell I am going to beat this. We are talking three Maulerfiends, two Dog Blobs, Bikes, Crushers, a DP and Herald and Cultists holding the back. He outnumbered be by a lot a whole lot. He took the first turn and scouted + moved right to my door step. I decided to leave his slow flank be and overload his fast one. I landed with Cents to be right outside of charge range of one Dog unit and opened fire on the Crushers, who were at half range. Together with two Tac units and the Tac doctrine, I decimated the Crusher unit and Immobilized one Mauler. The bike unit shot and charged his main dog unit with Herald. It was down to 4 dogs thanks to a good dakka phase and a well placed Orbital Strike. His DP was also hit and wounded by it, but he passed his 5+ invul, which was tragic. Tiggy fished for Invis and got it on top of Domination. My Invisible Biker unit charged the remaining dogs and mauled them over the next few turns. His other dogs also joined in and we got stuck until the end of the game. Since his flank shifted, I landed the last Tac Pod on the other side to overwhelm his Cultists there. One unlucky situation saw one Maulerfiend survive a whole Centurion Volley with uncanny saves and then making a 10" charge and killing all Cents + Tiggy. Slow but surely he was running out of steam. The Tactical Marines made short work of whatever he summoned to help and the game ended naturally at T6 with only a Cultists unit left for him and me having lost 11 Tacs (only one Combat Squad was destroyed completely) and Cents + Tiggy, while CM with 3 CS buddies as well as both TFC and all transports where all well and kicking. It was indeed tragic for the enemies of man. The Verdict is that the old and much hated Tactical Marine did extreme work this day. The sheer volume of wounds was overwhelming and the amount of force-multiplying you apply to them is awesomely insane. They were the true heroes and carried as good as the OP cents and Grav Bikes. In some instances they even did a better job. I like lists where you can enhance your basic dudes to be your main killing power. In short. I liked it and I will work on more UM Tac lists to see if I want to play them competitively or stick with other SM variants for that Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The Daemonkin had zero chance and almost a non existent threat factor to your army. Plain fire management, which is what you did, ruined his list in a slow but steady pace. No matter what he could summon you had all the firepower you needed to deal with him. As for the Eldar, good job. That was a much tighter outcome but you proved to be smart about target priority and thus you have prevailed. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyCrow Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Awesome battle reports and congrats for the win man ! I had a feeling that Ultramarines Tactical spam was going to be a powerhouse due to the Doctrines and it's glad to see it paid off for you :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083919 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 The Daemonkin had zero chance and almost a non existent threat factor to your army. Plain fire management, which is what you did, ruined his list in a slow but steady pace. No matter what he could summon you had all the firepower you needed to deal with him. As for the Eldar, good job. That was a much tighter outcome but you proved to be smart about target priority and thus you have prevailed. First time I actually played against a somewhat optimized Daemonkin army, hence some initial insecurity. Now, after I played him and got a feel of what to expect, I see what mean though. Having said that, the Eldar seemed far easier because his squishy units, which were actually designed to survive alpha strikes, were no match against TFC and Bolter galore. The magic of Drop Pods. I did not manage to get a single power off the entire game by the way. Very cold psychic dice against Eldar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tenebris Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Worry not about the Khorne Daemonkin. Even with an optimized tournament list the KDK is a pushover for an army with that much quality Rapid Fire and a smart target priority. The very moment that the KDK is in the charge range their are at their most vulnerable and you exploited this well it seems with your fire priority. With that much shooting you just terminate whatever the Daemonkin can summon or moves against you. The only scenario that he could win would be actually if he would actually be able to charge, a game that you clearly did not allow. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083954 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice games. I'm happy to see a CAD Ultramarines list do well. We already get rerolls so can really optimise unit choices in a list using it without losing out on the Chapter Traits. :) Do you think any part of your list didn't pull it's weight? Can you give a unit run down (maybe even score out of 10) for us, please? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083976 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice games. I'm happy to see a CAD Ultramarines list do well. We already get rerolls so can really optimise unit choices in a list using it without losing out on the Chapter Traits. Do you think any part of your list didn't pull it's weight? Can you give a unit run down (maybe even score out of 10) for us, please? That is actually pretty hard to say. I will try though when I am safely stored in the public transport with the Emperor's Greeting (and my phone) in hand. Stay tuned ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 The basic idea was to capitalize on Tacs and saturate the board with efficient firepower. I chose a CAD, because I consider the Formations to be either too expensive or not having a good unit composition and loads of dead weight (yes, I am looking at you, Demi-Company) That's interesting as the Company arguably is good when you want Tacticals and bad if you don't... yet you want tacticals but don't go for the company! ^^ Basicly, I don't see how you have loads of dead weight. Let's see and try to get you a similar list while using a full battle company: Captain; AA, TH, Shield Eternal, Bike 210 Chaplain; Bike 110 Command Squad; Bikes, 4 grav, apo 200 5 Tacs; plasma/c-plasma, Pod 95 5 Tacs; plasma/c-plasma, Pod 95 5 Tacs; plasma/c-plasma, Pod 95 5 Tacs; plasma/c-plasma, Pod 95 5 Tacs; plasma/c-plasma, Rhino 95 5 Tacs; plasma/c-plasma, Rhino 95 Attack Bike 40 Attack Bike 40 Devastators; 2x Grav Cannon, Pod 140 Devastators; 2x Grav Cannon, Pod 140 2x Whirlwind + Land Speeder 175 Total: 1625 This seems about equal to the list you have. Whirlwinds + Land Speeder + Attack Bikes instead of the 2 Thunderfires. Same amount of tacticals, just more plasma and less Grav. Devs with Grav Cannons are about equal to the Cents. You lose Tigurius, which is pretty big, but gain more transports, more Objective Secured, a Chaplain (lol) and more Combat Doctrines (or you could literally now pick another Chapter Tactics, for example Iron Hands, while retaining the Ultra Tactics due to the Full Company giving it.). And you have 225 ponts left. What do you think? Do you really value Tiggy + Cents so much that it compensates for all of the above? I'm honestly interested in your opinion on the matter. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4083982 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vissah Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Good to hear it is doing good. Now I am more motivated to finish the last couple models for my army and go back into gaming again after maybe 1,5 years. Always been a huge fan of the humble Tactical Marine and I got three full squads standing ready for some action. Keep the battle reports coming! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084009 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice games. I'm happy to see a CAD Ultramarines list do well. We already get rerolls so can really optimise unit choices in a list using it without losing out on the Chapter Traits. :) Do you think any part of your list didn't pull it's weight? Can you give a unit run down (maybe even score out of 10) for us, please? That is actually pretty hard to say. I will try though when I am safely stored in the public transport with the Emperor's Greeting (and my phone) in hand. Stay tuned ;) Yeah 40K ain't so simple as that since a unit might achieve little but because of the threat of it opponents wipe it out etc. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084021 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 @ Zhukov - I always like to start with the humble CAD. In a competitive setting, you can not count on having Formations of free stuff all the time. If I build it around a CAD, I can always fall back to it. Upgrading my CAD to a Battle Company is not hard. The second issue I have is that it requires me to get stuff that I would never use outside of said Formation, which is wasted money to me. Lastly, I am not a fan of free stuff Formations as they somewhat undermine the idea of fair competition where the skill is tested, with all other things being as close to equal as possible. Having 1/3 more points than the opponent is too much of an unfair advantage to me. I prefer to win honourably than winning at all cost. Tactically, I think it is solid though, albeit restrictive since you do not have easy access to Sternguard and TFC. Whether pure numbers and spam will beat an optimized CAD remains to be seen by play-testing. I will reserve ultimate judgement for now. Having said that, I am looking at the Demi Company now and see what I can do. @ Idaho - It is hard to judge units on their own, because a list is built with synergy and the whole picture in mind. I will not attach a score. Instead I will go through the units and talk about them a bit. Tacs - These guys where the back bone. Usually they perform poorly. However, two major factors made them really stick out. One, the Grav Cannon. While 35pts sounds like a lot, this baby makes a massive difference. It is the only heavy-weapon you can fire on arrival and on the move. Even on the move, it outperforms a Plasma at 12" against 4+ or better. If stationary, this thing can cripple armour and whole units. The second one was the change to the Dev Doctrine, making Tacs even more reliable. Having said that, you need to be dedicated to the idea of Tacs. Do not expect to take one unit and have them to carry the game. 30 is a good number. A mix between Rhinos and Pods seems to be best. Too many pods forces more reserves while too many Rhinos limits mobility. 3-5 pods with 1-3 Rhinos + additional ground elements seems to be a solid mix of ground presence and alpha strike. Master and Command(er) - The classic combo. My design philosophy includes a mobile problem solver in most lists. In DA it is the RW Command. Here it is this unit. Pods are static after landing and a mobile enemy can shift his lines to break a weak point. A mobile unit with punch can tactically respond to such shifts on the battle field, assuring total dominance. Invaluable in my eyes. While Tacs carried the Victory in both games, this unit made it possible by eating fire, sweeping a massive blob and holding the two main hammers of the enemy tied up in combat the whole game respectively. However, since the only real difference between Captain and CM is 1W 1A and Orbital Strike, so I might consider Captain if the points get tight. Having said that, it is how I play games so YMMV. There is one more thing to say about them and Centurions though, which I will mention at the end. TFC - I mainly included these guys because I like to be one step ahead of the Meta. With the resurgence of SM and soon DA, alpha strike will become a thing. The Meta cycle will move to adjust and include armies with redunancy and ground presence to counter it. The TFC has two jobs. One, to stop enemy alpha strike with +1 cover and to combat hordes which will be included to stop alpha strike. While I did not face alpha strike, the TFC did an admirable just killing off both of my rather horde-y opponents. However, they did not build such a massive cornerstone as Tacs did. They fall under the category of very good to have but ultimately expendable. I like them though and they are a reason why I dislike Demi Company, since you can not access them easily. Centurions - The big guys. I used them in Pods ever since 7ed SW hit, so they aren't by any means new to me. Much like Grav Bike Command and Grav Cannon Tacs they possess the holy duality of Bolter and Grav. When Grav loses effectiveness, the Bolters come in. In both games they did a lot of work like deleting a WK, Crushers and ate solid amount of fire. They are now far less reliant on Prescience with new Doctrines. I liked them, but they did not impress me as much as the Tacs though. Is it because I know their capabilities already? Is it because they are such a massive investment for a relatively fragile Unit? I can not really place it. Cents vs CS - I have a feeling that including both units is actually more detrimental to the list. I am considering to run CS + CM with Psyker on bikes or CM + Psyker + Cents on foot as a center-point around which the army builds. Mobility will not be a problem since tactical objectives will lure the opponent out eventually. I will test which one is superior. Both seem to be too much of a point sink, especially since you have Grav Tacs as well. You only have one Tank to protect a unit. If I choose the CS, then I might include a WS Detachment with Scout LSS Troops just to give the Hit and Run to compensate for the loss of Invisibility with Tiggy. Tiggy - If anything was supposed to be on the weaker side, it would be Tiggy. Only his reserve re-rolls came in handy. Against Eldar, he did not get a single power off. Against KDK he did manage to fish invisibility but did little. I think I will be better served with a Conclave to spam Scream or Prescience. There you have it. There is room for improvement, mainly the choice of 'main unit', either CS or Cents. Given the higher flexibility of the CAD, I will stick with it. However, the Demi Company can accomodate one of those two mini stars. More testing is required. Damn, I feel like a tactically adept Ultramarine now :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rune_Priest_Rhapsody Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice wok Immy!! I've been looking at a smililar list to use for *gasp* local tournaments. I initially gathered the UM force as a 'learn to play' army, but kind of fell in love with the amount of force multiplyers and bolter fire, something that is a bit harder to achive with Grey Hunters (different forum/thread). I am glad to see that new book working well in your more than capable hands. Thanks for the report. End of Line Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084269 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 Nice wok Immy!! I've been looking at a smililar list to use for *gasp* local tournaments. I initially gathered the UM force as a 'learn to play' army, but kind of fell in love with the amount of force multiplyers and bolter fire, something that is a bit harder to achive with Grey Hunters (different forum/thread). I am glad to see that new book working well in your more than capable hands. Thanks for the report. End of Line As always, you are perfectly welcome, ol' buddy ;) And I totally agree. Making the Holy Bolter into a threatening weapon and working with force-multiplying effects feels much more interesting and gratifying than just throwing dice at the enemy and hope that it hits. Good to see that the new book actually manages to paint UM as the tactically adept and disciplined fighters that they are. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084284 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Yes I'm glad I don't have to play a tournament game against Eldar, Tau or some other cheese monger lists and can noe win based upon my own tactical merit because the playing field has been levelled. So how did you find taking a single Rhino? I'm assuming that such a model it will survive more often because opponents have bigger problems closer to home? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Glad to see you did so well. The list is solid I think. I predicted the Grav Bike plus Captain wasn't going anywhere. It's just a very good unit for the buck. I would say that I personally have trouble with Eldar. I find the plethora of D is annoying as heck, and the D- artillery is extremely potent if used properly, but I always have trouble gettting rid of it... So how did you get rid of the D artillery? The way I read it your Tacs did it on arrival from a pod? The thing about the artillery is your always shooting at the Artillery first. So T7 right? Only the closest models take the wound.... so it's very annoying. Did the Grav Canon do this for you? 3 shots on arrival? I have faced this a few times and despise the Artillery rules they can make garbage very survivable... I came up against grots operating that flyer Vacuum artillery unit... same thing. Very annoying. Anyway great job. Did you find the re-rolls of 1 very helpful? Who was your superstar in both games? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 12, 2015 Author Share Posted June 12, 2015 @ Idaho - The Rhino is mainly there to have a semi-mobile Tac Squad on the board, seeing as I can not include a fifth drop pod due to point constraints. It also gives the enemy another target to fire at, meaning less abuse for any given unit against the enemy alpha strike. However, no one will shoot it. Dislodging a Rhino from a 3+ cover ruin requires quite a bit of fire-power (for example, 4 TL-AsC, meaning 16 shots are required to wreck it). It has done a great job being annoying and capping. Deploying 10 Tacs on the board also gives me a strong T1 Echo against enemies close to/in my deployment zone. It did well, but requires further testing. @ Prot - The Artillery fell after a whole Tac unit including the Drop Pod shot at them. The Grav and Plasma removed a total of two Platforms and 2 Guardians, while the Bolters managed to clear the last crew, leaving a lone Platform that is unable to shoot. That was the power of re-rolls. He did not get any cover, but it required me to sacrifice the unit by landing right in the deployment zone. Worth it though. The WK with 5++ fell after all Cents fired at it with Grav and short range Rapid Fire Bolters with Rending, courtesy of Tiggy's Warlord Trait. WG got killed by a Command Squad volley. Re-rolling 1s when you need a 3+ to hit is almost as good as twin-linked. It also fixes the problem with Gets Hot! weapons. It is very solid. Super-stars were the Tacs. The other units ensured their success by either deleting units or keeping them busy. Without the invisible bike unit tying up all the dogs, the Tacs would have been able to get total domination of the board. However, they did the most damage in the end. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4084453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 12, 2015 Share Posted June 12, 2015 Thus far, I've won two games vs a battle company in 2000pt games...with my Harlequins. Granted, I had a wraithknight ally, but he had a sword and shield... Good to hear you doing well though! I can't wait try out my new marines next week. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085029 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Call me crazy, but I consider the sword and board WK superior now, due to its higher damage output, despite having to get into melee. With 5++ and FnP it can actually survive a Centurion volley with a bit of luck. Either way, I think the Battle Company is a little over-hyped. It still depends on the player and what he or she makes of it. I wouldn't regard it as the make or break part of the book. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085277 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ishagu Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Nice to see wins generated by the new book. I'm not surprised Deamonkin were swept aside but I'm very impressed with the performance against Eldar. Great work! :-D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085297 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Nice to see wins generated by the new book. I'm not surprised Deamonkin were swept aside but I'm very impressed with the performance against Eldar. Great work! :-D Funnily enough, Mech-dar would've been so much harder to deal with. Jet-dar and Foot-dar are literally easy prey for UM with their Bolter and Grav spam. But once they get mechanized, be it Serpents or Raiders, things will get iffy, because I need to dedicate more firepower per unit. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085306 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 I don't know, lots of Guardians could be the answer alongside their killy stuff and transports. 2 or 3 big units of fodder to block our Drop Pods are a real proposition. Which is why I'm feeling like Typhoons will be really useful for clearing said chaff. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhukov Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 @ Zhukov - I always like to start with the humble CAD. In a competitive setting, you can not count on having Formations of free stuff all the time. If I build it around a CAD, I can always fall back to it. Upgrading my CAD to a Battle Company is not hard. The second issue I have is that it requires me to get stuff that I would never use outside of said Formation, which is wasted money to me. Lastly, I am not a fan of free stuff Formations as they somewhat undermine the idea of fair competition where the skill is tested, with all other things being as close to equal as possible. Having 1/3 more points than the opponent is too much of an unfair advantage to me. I prefer to win honourably than winning at all cost. Fair enough! Regarding it undermining fair competition: Handicapping yourself doesn't make necessarily for fair competition, as one gets fair competition in the first place if players give their best, so they have no excuses (while it also promotes the natural development of counters, it's the same as no government intervention in a capitalist system). Following that line of reasoning I would not consider you an honourable oppenent if I beat you because you handicapped yourself. In other words: Not taking the strongest possible is undermining competition. Don't worry, I understand what you mean, just trying to show that one can look at the situation from multiple perspectives and get different results that way. It is an interesting debate as well, the debate about 'free' stuff. One can meassure anything in points, but it is very hard to do so correctly. Many lists at 1850 points don't work optimally, so in reality one could say it's less than 1700 points. Along the same line I've been playing with overpriced individual units, but the whole works so well that I am playing with more points in the end on the table. Anyways, I digress, point is that it's hard to say how many points the Full Battle Company truly gives. I am still rather scared it is easy to still get an effective list out of it, which would mean it could be too strong. But I doubt this will have much impact in the long run: It will force the meta towards handling MSU once again, or more at least. If there will be a meta in the first place, the pace of releasing codices has to slow down to be able to establish one lol. Tl;dr: Full Battle Company isn't broken, if it is really strong people will start to counter it which will make CAD lists equally viable. That's one of the beauties of competitive play. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085556 Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Librarian Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Nice battle reports. One small question: How is it possible to drop in the Cents? I thought they can only get a Land Raider. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085594 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 Nice battle reports. One small question: How is it possible to drop in the Cents? I thought they can only get a Land Raider. The new Codex has Drop Pods in the Fast Attack Section. You buy one and deploy Cents in them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085622 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seahawk Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Call me crazy, but I consider the sword and board WK superior now, due to its higher damage output, despite having to get into melee. With 5++ and FnP it can actually survive a Centurion volley with a bit of luck. Either way, I think the Battle Company is a little over-hyped. It still depends on the player and what he or she makes of it. I wouldn't regard it as the make or break part of the book. Oh I agree, it's far superior, but that discussion isn't for these hallowed halls. ;) Battle company isn't bad. His list was (and has since been much improved): Battle Company Captain Chaplain 2x 5man Tac squads - plasma gun, Razorback 2x 5man Tac squads - flamer, Razorback 2x 5man Tac squads - meltagun, combi-melta, drop pod 3 Assault Centurions 2 Landspeeder Tornadoes - dual multimelta 5 Devastators - 2 lascannons 3 Devastator Centurions - Land Raider Crusader Armored Whatswhosit Techmarine Thunderfire Cannon 2x Whirlwinds Vindicator He's since taken more grav. ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309194-first-two-games-with-new-ultramarines/#findComment-4085652 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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