First two games with new Ultramarines

[crazyterran]

Grav Cannons will probably be my go-to choice if I drop Tactical Marines in a full 10man. Combi-Melta, Meltagun, Grav Cannon. Combat Squad, blow up the rhino, hose down who's inside.

 

Telion seems like a really good budget HQ choice. Give him a unit of bolter scouts, infiltrate up, and use his warlord trait to unload 10-20 rending bolter shots into the enemy (every turn, if they live long enough!). Make sure to do it in a ruin, or something, with cloaks, so they have a 2+ save.

 

180pts total for a 10man, cloaks, and Telion.

[Lord Ragnarok]

Damn you immersturm. I don't want to like tacs! I want to use my sternies!!

 

Nice reports and discussions ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

Damn you immersturm. I don't want to like tacs! I want to use my sternies!!

 

Nice reports and discussions ;)

Use both! DO IT! FOR THE EMEPROR! CHAAAAAAAAAARGEE!

 

Sorry :D

[Prot]

As I list build I am noting a problem with Grav over kill. It leaves a big problem if you go too far this direction. I'm not sure of the best way to handle it.

 

I really want to try a full Grav-Dev squad, but also the Tacts would benefit, but man it gets expensive after a while!

 

My next game I am forcing myself to try a base Demi-Co or even a basic Gladius. We'll see if two more turns of Tactical Doctrines actually make that big a difference. Using either of these definitely promotes MORE tacticals though! Which I love...

 

BUT one thing... close combat is still an issue. I am seriously thinking of 'empowering' my tactical squads:

- if taking a Demi-co we're talking 3 squads minimum. With a Gladius, we're talking 3 uses of Tact Doctrines. *IF* you go crazy and throw in Calgar then 4 Tact Docs.

- by empowering I mean making them better all around units. I am sick of having 6-7 Tactical dude stuck in a slow motion close combat for half a game. I'm thinking of going Vet Sergeants with power weapons.....

- The Tact Doctrines also allow me to re-do CC misses as well. This could add up to something...

 

What do you guys think? Am I on to something? or just losing my mind?

[AceofCase]

You may be on to something. Tactical Doctrines have made it so plasma is an amazing choice on Tacticals, as you can avoid gets hot. They also made it so our combi-weapons are far less likely to miss, and are thus are far more effective investment. I plan to try out Assault Marines + Captain for the benefits of the Assault Doctrine. If they can do decent with it, I'm sure a vet sarge + power weapon could be pretty effective on tactical marines. I think it all depends on how often your tactical marines are getting charged by the enemy. My meta consists of a lot of Necrons, Admech and Eldar, so a power maul or two wouldn't be too bad at all.

[Prot]

So I think I'll try this. Since doing a Gladius is minimum 3, and a full Company we're looking at 6 tactical squads, then using the Tactical Doctrine 3 times is actually giving me reason to believe I could use them to do more, and do it better.

[Mitsman]

Damn I am also tempted in a Gladius myself. These days tactical marines seem to be all the more tasty.

I have been using 2 full tacticals with plasma and combi plasma for a very long time as my core and I believe that they are very flexible. I thing that the Grav cannons are what has been missing from them in order to be on par to elites (ok not so elite but better than tax) since rapid firing 2 plasma guns for a turn plus 3 shots form the grav with FULL balistic is quite good against most medium to heavy infantry and bolters are good enough for the rest. Tactical doctrines are going to raise the tacticals to even higher hights and really I want to try them as soon as possible.

 

I feal that a strong demi-company would be one with 3 full strength tacticals supported by a 6-7 strong assault squad and a 5 man devastor squad. Plenty of bodies for resilience and quite the firepower with all the re-rolls. Hell I even consider 3 plasma pistols on the assault marines with the danger of ones more remote than ever!

 

A fanstastic auxiliary for this case can be the 3 librarian one. Attach one in each tactical squad for extra killiness in hand to hand in addition to the formation bonuses if you do not want to invest in a heavy weapon for 10 people total and a rhino/drop pod.

My main problem is that I want to fit everything in a 1750pts army and fit the talons/raven formation too...

 

Mitsman

[AceofCase]

I think I'll be trying out the other heavy weapon options, grav is expensive and I'm curious to see how the doctrines will help out missile launchers, plasma cannons, and heavy bolters.

 

I definitely think that Ultramarines benefit from the Gladius the most. Our doctrines reward a diverse list with lots of bodies on the table, which is exactly what the Gladius guides you into building.

 

Do remember Mitsman, the Librarian Conclave is a Command Formation, not an Auxiliary. You'll still need to take one of those if you also want the Librarians.

[Ishagu]

Two Demi Companies and the Storm Wing would be pretty good... I just need to buy a few more Razorbacks!

[Prot]

Damn I am also tempted in a Gladius myself. These days tactical marines seem to be all the more tasty.

I have been using 2 full tacticals with plasma and combi plasma for a very long time as my core and I believe that they are very flexible. I thing that the Grav cannons are what has been missing from them in order to be on par to elites (ok not so elite but better than tax) since rapid firing 2 plasma guns for a turn plus 3 shots form the grav with FULL balistic is quite good against most medium to heavy infantry and bolters are good enough for the rest. Tactical doctrines are going to raise the tacticals to even higher hights and really I want to try them as soon as possible.

 

I feal that a strong demi-company would be one with 3 full strength tacticals supported by a 6-7 strong assault squad and a 5 man devastor squad. Plenty of bodies for resilience and quite the firepower with all the re-rolls. Hell I even consider 3 plasma pistols on the assault marines with the danger of ones more remote than ever!

 

A fanstastic auxiliary for this case can be the 3 librarian one. Attach one in each tactical squad for extra killiness in hand to hand in addition to the formation bonuses if you do not want to invest in a heavy weapon for 10 people total and a rhino/drop pod.

My main problem is that I want to fit everything in a 1750pts army and fit the talons/raven formation too...

 

Mitsman

 

 

^This is basically what I'm doing. But to add I am going to take -some- of the squad sergeants and make them a little more killy in close combat.

 

I think I'll be trying out the other heavy weapon options, grav is expensive and I'm curious to see how the doctrines will help out missile launchers, plasma cannons, and heavy bolters.

 

I definitely think that Ultramarines benefit from the Gladius the most. Our doctrines reward a diverse list with lots of bodies on the table, which is exactly what the Gladius guides you into building.

 

Do remember Mitsman, the Librarian Conclave is a Command Formation, not an Auxiliary. You'll still need to take one of those if you also want the Librarians.

 

^ Good point. I keep reminding myself of this as well. In my case to make it a legit Gladius I am starting with the Whirlwind Aux or the Flyer Aux.

[Brother Captain Ed]

Instead of the combi-weapon, maybe a plasma pistol would be a good Veteran Sergeant investment. More than one round if plasma (albeit at shorter range) and extra melee attack to emphasize the squads close combat ability.

[AceofCase]

Instead of the combi-weapon, maybe a plasma pistol would be a good Veteran Sergeant investment. More than one round if plasma (albeit at shorter range) and extra melee attack to emphasize the squads close combat ability.

 

I was having that thought before the new codex. The Plasma pistol is a bit harder to use, but delivers consistent plasma instead of the maximum of 2 shots the combi-plasma ever gets. The ability of having 3 twin-linked turns and 2 turns of re-rolling ones favors the plasma pistol in that regard.

[Mitsman]

I think I'll be trying out the other heavy weapon options, grav is expensive and I'm curious to see how the doctrines will help out missile launchers, plasma cannons, and heavy bolters.

 

I definitely think that Ultramarines benefit from the Gladius the most. Our doctrines reward a diverse list with lots of bodies on the table, which is exactly what the Gladius guides you into building.

 

Do remember Mitsman, the Librarian Conclave is a Command Formation, not an Auxiliary. You'll still need to take one of those if you also want the Librarians.

 

I keep forgeting that. This means I will need the whirlwind formation too. At least I will get excellent anti-GEQ firepower.

 

Instead of the combi-weapon, maybe a plasma pistol would be a good Veteran Sergeant investment. More than one round if plasma (albeit at shorter range) and extra melee attack to emphasize the squads close combat ability.

 

Excellent point. I think this has potential. I will need to give this idea a try.

[Ryksa]

10 man Tactical squad with Plasma gun, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Cannon, and Rhino would be 215pts..  This I could live with, but going with a Plasma pistol, Power weapon, and Veteran status would be pretty pricey for a troop choice! (245 if memory serves)

[Prot]

Instead of the combi-weapon, maybe a plasma pistol would be a good Veteran Sergeant investment. More than one round if plasma (albeit at shorter range) and extra melee attack to emphasize the squads close combat ability.

 

- Yes! Sorry I should have said that... I've gone Pistol, Power weapon (otherwise should go Claw if using a Combi) on the Vet sarge. The pistol I was using was going to be Grav (never used it before), but Plasma would be good too.

 

 

 

10 man Tactical squad with Plasma gun, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Cannon, and Rhino would be 215pts..  This I could live with, but going with a Plasma pistol, Power weapon, and Veteran status would be pretty pricey for a troop choice! (245 if memory serves)

 

- Well the list I have for my next game is taking this into consideration. So I'm using GravCannons in my Tacticals so that makes expense even worse.  BUT not every squad is going to be that juiced up. I see as I am creating this latest list that quite obviously some tactical squads wouldn't/shouldn't see close combat, and if they will.... well the config changes:

 

- A cheap 5 man missile squad: It's babysitting with ObSec in my zone since we play Maelstrom exclusively here. This squad is getting a double armed sergeant because he's not going to contribute much with a bolter anyway, but if I get snuck up on or worse, he's at least giving me a second attack. Very cheap option.

 

- Medium cost: Meltagun, Grav cannon.... probably getting a double armed Sergeant as well.

 

- High cost, close range Grav gun?, Grav cannons (Dev squad perhaps). HUGE target for my opponent: This squad is going to get the Powersword, meltabomb, Pistol (special pistol if I can afford the points).

 

That's my plan anyway. I'm thinking this is worth trying. Until now tacticals were done completely on the cheap. No extra pieces, ever. Now I'm thinking with 3-6 squads, and 3+ turns of re-rolling all or even 1's, it's time to make them a real force to deal with. 

 

I want to be able to challenge that 2 wound, fist armed Nob and have a chance at killing him before he swings. I don't want to get bogged down by necron warriors because I can't kill anything....

 

We'll see if it works. ;)

[AceofCase]

If you're putting a power weapon on the seargent, I say put a flamer or meltagun on the tacticals. You don't wanna waste a turn of plasma or grav when you go to charge that turn.

[Ryksa]

10 man Tactical squad with Plasma gun, Combi-Plasma, Plasma Cannon, and Rhino would be 215pts.. This I could live with, but going with a Plasma pistol, Power weapon, and Veteran status would be pretty pricey for a troop choice! (245 if memory serves)

- Well the list I have for my next game is taking this into consideration. So I'm using GravCannons in my Tacticals so that makes expense even worse. BUT not every squad is going to be that juiced up. I see as I am creating this latest list that quite obviously some tactical squads wouldn't/shouldn't see close combat, and if they will.... well the config changes:

- A cheap 5 man missile squad: It's babysitting with ObSec in my zone since we play Maelstrom exclusively here. This squad is getting a double armed sergeant because he's not going to contribute much with a bolter anyway, but if I get snuck up on or worse, he's at least giving me a second attack. Very cheap option.

- Medium cost: Meltagun, Grav cannon.... probably getting a double armed Sergeant as well.

- High cost, close range Grav gun?, Grav cannons (Dev squad perhaps). HUGE target for my opponent: This squad is going to get the Powersword, meltabomb, Pistol (special pistol if I can afford the points).

That's my plan anyway. I'm thinking this is worth trying. Until now tacticals were done completely on the cheap. No extra pieces, ever. Now I'm thinking with 3-6 squads, and 3+ turns of re-rolling all or even 1's, it's time to make them a real force to deal with.

I want to be able to challenge that 2 wound, fist armed Nob and have a chance at killing him before he swings. I don't want to get bogged down by necron warriors because I can't kill anything....

We'll see if it works.

I suppose, a unit with a Plasma cannon should never expect to be in Combat, so they can avoid that cost. I had the same thought though, re-rolls to hit and a reasonably well equiped veteran sgt could do some damage, but spending 500+ points on just tactical marines makes running the Gladius strike force more difficult. At 1500 points I feel like I will have to go cheap on either the Assault or Devastator option.

I was thinking of running a 5 man Tac squad with a melta, combi melta, and a drop pod. (125 pts) It's not the cheapest option, however 2 TL meltas, and a TL Krak grenade could do some damage.

[Ishagu]

I'm with Prot on giving Tacs a grav cannon.

It's an incredibly expensive option, but when you account for re rolls using the various Doctrines it can be effective.

 

Also, Heavy Weapons slow the Tacticals down and make them less... Tactically effective :-P

[Prot]

I'm with Prot on giving Tacs a grav cannon.

It's an incredibly expensive option, but when you account for re rolls using the various Doctrines it can be effective.

 

Also, Heavy Weapons slow the Tacticals down and make them less... Tactically effective :-P

 

What I'm realizing is running the Gladius is giving yourself into the idea of 'Tacticals can win me this game'. 

 

In the past, with CAD for instance, the tacticals are almost treated like a... 'tax' of sorts to get to the stuff you really wanted, elites, Grav cents, whatever. 

 

I don't know maybe it's just me but I had another couple of games and I'll be honest, the Tacticals won me the game.... I can't believe I'm typing that, but it happened. And I had one Vet sarge loaded up in the appropriate squad and he wrecked face with his re-rolls.

 

I mean depending on how you package it up, you could end up with.... 3 tries (I think) at the Tactical Doctrine? You have 3-6 squads of these guys, maybe the odd Vet Sargent and the odd Grav Cannon in there. It might be time to embrace the idea of maximizing that 'tactical tax' instead of minimizing it.

 

I need more test games, but I'm a little burned our at the moment between painting, and playing and assembling... I've played so many games lately, but as of right now that's how I feel about the Gladius and the tacticals.

 

Oh I should clarify something. I played the LibCon + Demi-Co + Suppression Force = Gladius. So that's where I'm coming from.

[Captain Idaho]

I like the idea of 6 Tactical squads with in Drop Pods. They can hit the enemy turn after turn with Rerolling shooting from fresh squads each turn.

[Ryksa]

I'm going to test out the Tac Marine's usefulness.  It will be my first game as Ultramarines (I used to play RG or IF) against my friend's Space Wolves.

My Tac squad load outs will include:

10 man Tac - Plasmagun, Combi Plamsa, Plasma cannon inside a rhino

10 man Tac - Grav gun, Grav cannon, Vet sgt with Grav Pistol & power weapon inside a rhino

5 man Tac - Melta, Combi Melta inside Drop pod

 

I will bring Captain Sicarius to scout my Grav Tac squad into an advantageous spot, hopefully they won't have to move allowing the most out of my Grav weapons.

Also want to see what my suicide Melta Tac squad can do.