GrunTeufel Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can a character join a formation before deployment? If so, I might have a fun list to try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can a character join a formation before deployment? If so, I might have a fun list to try. I think so, but it's debatable if he could charge with the assault Marines. If anything he'd be stopping them charging :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can a character join a formation before deployment? If so, I might have a fun list to try. Yes a character can join, but it depends on the actual rule whether he can also charge. An IC joined to a unit is part of that unit. If the rule states that the unit can charge, he can also charge. If the urles say the assault marines and their Sgt/Vet. Sgt. can charge, he cannot and would prevent the unit from charging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MadMek83 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 We really are the Melta kings at least! That is so true: My entire army has: 7 multi melta's ( 3 on tacticals, 4 on devs ) 7 infernus pistols ( 2 on tacticals ) 5 on DC. I got 6 meltas (2 on tacticals 4 on assault marines ) + 4 combi melta's on my sternguard... More vehicles, better my army will does against them... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The new codex does sting a little bit, we still hold our own. One bitch fest about the New SM dex is renders IA books useless because of the new rules, we by pass that because we relic of armory rule with just a chaplain. It may not seem like much, but if spent the time and money investing in FW books and units and now stuck in land of rule lawyer and FAQ from FW you sitting pretty pissed off. Same holds true with CT from FW site, there now almost null and void. ( discloser i own size able force sharks which just became gray marines Thank FW for the support) From the leaks I like book and in direction it taking the game, it's going to be interesting to see what going to happen when DA drops if they get all hook ups and price fixes, than its time to raise the bull flag. But until than we still have things make blue marines envious. Is confirmed we can use the formations listed in NEW SM dex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 The new codex does sting a little bit, we still hold our own. One bitch fest about the New SM dex is renders IA books useless because of the new rules, we by pass that because we relic of armory rule with just a chaplain. It may not seem like much, but if spent the time and money investing in FW books and units and now stuck in land of rule lawyer and FAQ from FW you sitting pretty pissed off. Same holds true with CT from FW site, there now almost null and void. ( discloser i own size able force sharks which just became gray marines Thank FW for the support) From the leaks I like book and in direction it taking the game, it's going to be interesting to see what going to happen when DA drops if they get all hook ups and price fixes, than its time to raise the bull flag. But until than we still have things make blue marines envious. Is confirmed we can use the formations listed in NEW SM dex? We most definitely cannot use any of the formations from the new SM dex. Which isn't really the problem. Although it hurts, especially considering we too have a demi-company (from Exterminatus) that is, for all intents and purposes, useless. The restrictions aren't as fluid as in C:SM, and while It gives us Red Thirst and a reroll on the warlord trait, these bonuses are obtained from using the Baal Strike Force from the codex, for a much smaller buy in, with none of the restrictions. The problem is WS/BS4 scouts, different rules and points costs (cheaper Power Weapons) for Vanguard Veterans (they get to reroll charge distance, we get auto pass on heroic intervention... Woohoo), and the ability to take vehicle/ Dread squads, thus freeing up the force org if you choose to use it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Same holds true with CT from FW site, there now almost null and void. ( discloser i own size able force sharks which just became gray marines Thank FW for the support) I keep hearing this again and again. Where do the rules actually say that? Or is it because the CTs are for Codex: Space Marines and there is no more Codex Space Marines but a Codex Adeptus Astartes Space Marines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Same holds true with CT from FW site, there now almost null and void. ( discloser i own size able force sharks which just became gray marines Thank FW for the support) I keep hearing this again and again. Where do the rules actually say that? Or is it because the CTs are for Codex: Space Marines and there is no more Codex Space Marines but a Codex Adeptus Astartes Space Marines? That exactly, it is the same way Malakim Phoros is actually null and void, but workable with the RAW. As usual, the FW responce is: "Talk to your gaming group, it should be okay to use them." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Can a character join a formation before deployment? If so, I might have a fun list to try. Yes a character can join, but it depends on the actual rule whether he can also charge. An IC joined to a unit is part of that unit. If the rule states that the unit can charge, he can also charge. If the urles say the assault marines and their Sgt/Vet. Sgt. can charge, he cannot and would prevent the unit from charging. The rules say nothing to prevent them joining and/or assaulting if a character joins any of the units. Vanguards heroic intervention rule used to be like that for example. I mean this is scary. I can put dante and two priests, this formation and minimal troops for the extra 600 points and for 1500 points I would have a really scary army. 1st turn charge along with absurd amount of firepower coming your way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah and it really hurts that you cannot do this with BA alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah and it really hurts that you cannot do this with BA alone. To be honest, it would have been quite OP and I don't use the term lightly. I mean, 1st turn charge, furious charge, Baal strikeforce +1 Int bonus AND descent of angels would have been a bit broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle_Haydon Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah and it really hurts that you cannot do this with BA alone. To be honest, it would have been quite OP and I don't use the term lightly. I mean, 1st turn charge, furious charge, Baal strikeforce +1 Int bonus AND descent of angels would have been a bit broken. Unless I'm quite mistaken we'd only have had Furious Charge given that the Formation wouldn't be part of a Baal Strike Force (The formation stands alone). Descent of Angels would certainly be a thing if you took Dante as your warlord, or got lucky, but then is that really worse than what can be done with vanilla Chapter Tactics and such? Still a shame we'll have to arguably wait so long to get access to Decurion style combi-formations, vehicle squadrons, and the like - but I've resolved to just muscle on. Already had a few friends recommend I just become 'red marines' to stay current. In the end I just find it more flavorful to stay with the Codex we have and enjoy our own unique style and units. The discrepancies on units we share with vanilla will continue to be a sore point though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 How do you guys feel about how our codex has been treated by GW? Insulted, mostly. I don't think BA have been rendered unplayable or anything, but we're a mess compared to codex SM (buy a campaign book to get formations.. really? we were definitely a test platform there, because they were experimenting with that format instead of codex supplement books like champions of fenris, before they settled on the decurion which we missed out on) and the thing that I can't get past is the fact that our dreads are left with 2A each when the new baseline is 4, with no explaination. BA dreads are simply inexplicably half as good as those found in standard codex chapters, and sure, nobody ever takes a standard dread, but a) it applies to our elite dreads too, and b) that direct comparison is still there, and it's insulting, and I didn't buy this codex or start this army to be insulted; I have a chaos warband for that. Will any of you be playing red marines for the forseeable future? Sure, why not. I have the SM codex anyway because I'll need it for my upcoming Raven Guard project, so I might as well try it. I've always wanted to run a DC dread, and using one as an ironclad could be a good way to make him more fun and useful instead of relegating him to "why didn't you build a furioso" territory. I'll also go this route if I decide I want a TDA squad with a cannon at any point, but we'll see. It would also let me take that LS storm I always wanted - but then again, so will playing RG, and it's fluffier that way, so that whole project is going to cut down the amount of "red marines" I'd be doing otherwise. Anyone still clinging to the hope we might get a FAQ? lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah and it really hurts that you cannot do this with BA alone. To be honest, it would have been quite OP and I don't use the term lightly. I mean, 1st turn charge, furious charge, Baal strikeforce +1 Int bonus AND descent of angels would have been a bit EPIC. Fixed that for you. I jest, I jest. While I would have liked something like this, it would be a bit OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Yeah and it really hurts that you cannot do this with BA alone. To be honest, it would have been quite OP and I don't use the term lightly. I mean, 1st turn charge, furious charge, Baal strikeforce +1 Int bonus AND descent of angels would have been a bit broken. Unless I'm quite mistaken we'd only have had Furious Charge given that the Formation wouldn't be part of a Baal Strike Force (The formation stands alone). Descent of Angels would certainly be a thing if you took Dante as your warlord, or got lucky, but then is that really worse than what can be done with vanilla Chapter Tactics and such? Still a shame we'll have to arguably wait so long to get access to Decurion style combi-formations, vehicle squadrons, and the like - but I've resolved to just muscle on. Already had a few friends recommend I just become 'red marines' to stay current. In the end I just find it more flavorful to stay with the Codex we have and enjoy our own unique style and units. The discrepancies on units we share with vanilla will continue to be a sore point though. Descent of angels plus a character (preferebly a priest) with angels wings, and meltas on the assault marines. And in a 1500 list that is incredibly good. If you get the first turn the game is more or less over. For 1500 points you have the formation, and if you go with FTSF you will have Dante, priest, scouts, and a 115 pts more that you can spend on some other stuff. If you combat squad the assault marines you can get into combat with 4 different units and get to charge quite reliably and safely with DOA. I am happy that we can get this formation as it is. I don't need it to be blood angels also. The rest of the things you talked about I agree with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Aye, there is nothing stopping us using Templar Chapter tactics with it either, for Crusader and potential Rage on the charge. Still quite BA fitting too depending on your chapter ;) Or White Scars for Hit and run. If anything the advent of this codex is making me consider a "Imperial Palace" style army, combining BA, WS and IF in a glorious swash of red, black white and gold Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle_Haydon Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Aye, there is nothing stopping us using Templar Chapter tactics with it either, for Crusader and potential Rage on the charge. Still quite BA fitting too depending on your chapter Or White Scars for Hit and run. If anything the advent of this codex is making me consider a "Imperial Palace" style army, combining BA, WS and IF in a glorious swash of red, black white and gold Does make me consider reviving a 'Second War for Armageddon' force I wanted to do some time ago. Ultramarines, Blood Angels, and Salamanders.. Need to resist that temptation until after ETL I suppose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think if done right combined Marine armies are fluffy and very cool looking! Also makes painting a little less dull... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think one good discussion we could have as a forum is effective ways to use our new codexes in Tandem. Combos and such. Leonidas posted on his blog about Shrike and the Death company with Astorath for a potentially lethal combo. Things like this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Aye, there is nothing stopping us using Templar Chapter tactics with it either, for Crusader and potential Rage on the charge. Still quite BA fitting too depending on your chapter Or White Scars for Hit and run. If anything the advent of this codex is making me consider a "Imperial Palace" style army, combining BA, WS and IF in a glorious swash of red, black white and gold i have some blood angels, a sentinals of terra force that needs expanding, i just need some white scars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urauloth Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Honestly a joint strike force of two chapters probably appeals to me more than anytthing else right now, I think. I'd get to work on my Raven Guard alongside my BA projects and maintain a little more P&M variety, I'd have completely free choice when it came to adding models and units to my collection, plus I'd have the chance to Forge a Narrative as to what the two chapters were doing in the same place, and I love being presented with fluff challenges and opportunities when I'm embarking on hobby projects. On the tabletop, they'd play to eachothers' strengths pretty well (or double up on them - RG vanguard are a great jump unit, fast as hell and armed to the teeth) and offer more flexibility than either one would by itself. I used to be pretty firmly in the "purist" camp - I picked an army and I stuck with it, and if I planned any allies my plan was always to roll them into the main force visually/fluffily via counts-as, but I'm trying out a fresh perspective here and I'm pretty sure I like it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think it helps everyone on the table top too, it's not fun for you or your opponent when you are like "so these Marines all have furious charge." "but these same colour Marines all have reroll bolter shots of 1" "and THESE same colour Marines have some rules I can use to reroll stuff. Clear?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quixus Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah Deathwatch on a grander scale. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesI Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I think what GW has done here is horrible. 7 months after our codex, its been completely invalidated. Everything I do with BA I can do better and cheaper with the new marines (except use Dante). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobix Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 How do you guys feel about how our codex has been treated by GW? not impress appart from melta drop pod, furioso drop pod, flesh tearer drop pod...(you see the trend ?) Rhino and overcharged engine feel so out of place... Will any of you be playing red marines for the forseeable future? Yes, next friday (i am painting 3 tacts squads right now :D ) Anyone still clinging to the hope we might get a FAQ? Hahahahahhahaha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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