Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I actually think Russ and Guilliman would be friends. The savage king persona of Russ is a ruse, and one that has been seen through a few times. What Russ appreciates in a friend (in my opinion) is a straightfoward nature, loyal, and not shy of getting stuck in. To me, Guilliman certainly fits that bill. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086431 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 I actually think Russ and Guilliman would be friends. The savage king persona of Russ is a ruse, and one that has been seen through a few times. What Russ appreciates in a friend (in my opinion) is a straightfoward nature, loyal, and not shy of getting stuck in. To me, Guilliman certainly fits that bill. WLK In Unremembered Empire, Guilliman had to choose the next liege of the Imperium (he believed it couldn't be him, since that would seem oportunistic, and I think he didn't like the idea anyway, he was more akin to a Prime Minister than a King). He says: 'I have been holding out hope that one other brother might still come to me. Rogal, stars, but I would hand the throne selfessly to him! Sanguinius, in an instant! These are worthy heirs! These are noble brothers!' 'And if they were willing, it would validate Secundus', she nodded. 'Their sanction would reinforce your choices'. 'Any loyal son,' murmured Gulliman. 'Right now, I would take any loyal son'. 'Even Russ?' she asked. Guilliman laughed. 'He's a barbarian,' he said, 'but he is still a king. And he is loyal in ways that shame us all. Yes, even Russ. Perhaps we need a truly fierce monarch to see us through this new strife'. One of my favorite scenes of the book, and amongst those that make UE much more interesting to me than others in the series. It showcases many things, first, that Guilliman possess great respect for Sanguinius and Dorn, while also capable of seeing the qualities of Russ (even though he is not pleased with them).Even better is that the Lord of Ultramar went to have dinner with the Wolves after this speech, drinking Mjod with the warriors. So, Wolf Lord Kieran, I can see it, Guilliman could in fact become close to Russ. But I'm certain it would be a very vitrolic friendship (which I think it's the one Russ would always favour). Ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086464 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yea, that was part of what factored into my opinion. That and Russ being named one of Guilliman's "Dauntless Few".That and (as you mentioned) Guilliman's attitude towards the Vlka Fenryka Watch Pack. All that said, Russ is not a fool and is not the brainless barbarian many fault him as. I think he'd appreciate the skills of Lord of the 500 Worlds and his Legion. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086466 Share on other sites More sharing options...
sitnam Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Yeah, I think its a shame we didnt get more pre-Heresy views. I dont see why he would not get along with Perturabo, even perhaps Angron when you consider those 2 had something resembling a relationship. The bit in the FW books about Ferrus praising World Eater armored tactics an always intrigued me as far as the interraction of the two. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086504 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I had forgotten that! Always nice when a pet theory finds support somewhere. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I don't know why Magnus is generally listed as one of the unpopular Primarchs, he had a decent amount of friends (Horus, Lorgar, Sanguinius, Khan, Perturabo) and seemed to be regarded as one of the more senior primarchs. He just several people who hated his guts (Mortarion, Russ) and neither of those two were very popular. Russ was disliked and Mortarion was distrusted. One friendship I'm surprised didn't happen was Mortarion and Vulkan. They both had the same ideals, freedom for humanity, no matter the cost and were willing to sacrifice everything. While Mortarion comes off a bit sinister on the outside Vulkan never seemed like a person to judge a book by it's cover. I also think Lorgar and Angron could have been good friends if Angron lost the nails. In Betrayer their relationship was more like a person's relationship with a mentally ill relative. But when Angron was lucid, he made some very accurate philosophical points that challenged the norms and shut Guiliman up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086537 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 And Russ. ;) (Yes I went there, Angron won!) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086542 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Loss Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I sont know why Magnus is generally listed as one of the unpopular Primarchs, he had a decent amount of friends (Horus, Lorgar, Sanguinius, Khan, Perturabo) and seemed to be regarded as one of the more senior primarchs. He just several people who hated his guts (Mortarion, Russ) and neither of those two were very popular. Russ was disliked and Mortarion was distrusted. One friendship I'm surprised didn't happen was Mortarion and Vulkan. They both had the same ideals, freedom for humanity, no matter the cost and were willing to sacrifice everything. While Mortarion comes off a bit sinister on the outside Vulkan never seemed like a person to judge a book by it's cover. I also think Lorgar and Angron could have been good friends if Angron lost the nails. In Betrayer their relationship was more like a person's relationship with a mentally ill relative. But when Angron was lucid, he made some very accurate philosophical points that challenged the norms and shut Guiliman up. The Salamanders took severe issue with the Death Guard habit of rad-bombing and leaving worlds as dead husks, whereas the to the Salamanders that was a last resort. I think they're two sides of the same coin though, but nowhere near friends, just similar Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086551 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ranwulf Posted June 14, 2015 Author Share Posted June 14, 2015 And Russ. (Yes I went there, Angron won!) No deaths, no victory. Such is the way of Khorne. Ran Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086552 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I sont know why Magnus is generally listed as one of the unpopular Primarchs, he had a decent amount of friends (Horus, Lorgar, Sanguinius, Khan, Perturabo) and seemed to be regarded as one of the more senior primarchs. He just several people who hated his guts (Mortarion, Russ) and neither of those two were very popular. Russ was disliked and Mortarion was distrusted. One friendship I'm surprised didn't happen was Mortarion and Vulkan. They both had the same ideals, freedom for humanity, no matter the cost and were willing to sacrifice everything. While Mortarion comes off a bit sinister on the outside Vulkan never seemed like a person to judge a book by it's cover. I also think Lorgar and Angron could have been good friends if Angron lost the nails. In Betrayer their relationship was more like a person's relationship with a mentally ill relative. But when Angron was lucid, he made some very accurate philosophical points that challenged the norms and shut Guiliman up. The Salamanders took severe issue with the Death Guard habit of rad-bombing and leaving worlds as dead husks, whereas the to the Salamanders that was a last resort. I think they're two sides of the same coin though, but nowhere near friends, just similar Didnt Betrayal talk about how Death Guard only used rad weapons in dangerous combat zones with no humans? At the battle of Galaspar they only killed people who attacked them. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086557 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 He hadnt fallen (ascended?) to Khorne yet, but even Russ acknowledged who was losing more sons that Night!! I'm sorry Mods, I cant help myself. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086558 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 And Russ. (Yes I went there, Angron won!) Russ held back during that fight. He wasnt there to kill or maim, but reign in a psychopath. If Russ wanted, Angron would have been a twitching corpse on the ground. Angron was simply too broken to know any better. WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086569 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Mission.Accomplished. :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086573 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prodigal Son of Magnus Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 And Russ. ;) (Yes I went there, Angron won!) Russ held back during that fight. He wasnt there to kill or maim, but reign in a psychopath. If Russ wanted, Angron would have been a twitching corpse on the ground. Angron was simply too broken to know any better. WLK Russ dosent seem like the kind of person to hold back in a fight no matter what. When he thought Magnus was a traitor, he went all out. Angron also provoked Russ into attacking him, and if you made someone angry enough to assault you, they aren't holding back.- Edit: I just made a big mistake didn't I? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 The best kind Prodigal Son!! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086576 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lokkorex Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Perturabo tried to confide in ferrus, and ferrus just looked with disdain upon perturabo, thinking him a weak fool. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Perturabo tried to confide in ferrus, and ferrus just looked with disdain upon perturabo, thinking him a weak fool. Whats the reference for that? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4086930 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jarl Kjaran Coldheart Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 And Russ. (Yes I went there, Angron won!) Russ held back during that fight. He wasnt there to kill or maim, but reign in a psychopath. If Russ wanted, Angron would have been a twitching corpse on the ground. Angron was simply too broken to know any better. WLK Russ dosent seem like the kind of person to hold back in a fight no matter what. When he thought Magnus was a traitor, he went all out. Angron also provoked Russ into attacking him, and if you made someone angry enough to assault you, they aren't holding back.- Edit: I just made a big mistake didn't I? I dont wanna go too far into this, but Russ didnt go all out on Magnus until after he delivered what he though was a attempt at a peaceable offer. and yea, i think Scribe was baiting repeatedly, but figured if somebody bit it may as well be somebody who tries (as I hope I have) to remain somewhat objective WLK Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4087187 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 My good Wolf Lord...I must apologize, as I was getting a little loopy last night and yes was quite clearly stirring the pot a bit. :) I know this will never be resolved to either of our satisfaction because well...we both know we are right. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4087261 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 From what I understand, the Death Guard only used rad and chemical weaponry in purgation missions, probably given orders by either the Emperor or the Warmaster. As far as friendship, it seems as though Mortarion, while not entirely seen as a sought out companion, did find company with Curze, the Khan, possibly Angron as they seem to be rather chummy prior to Isstvan III, obviously Horus, and possibly Russ, as they were the two who made the Edict of Nikea happen. I could see him being a favored ally by Guilliman, perhaps not personality wise but as a Commander. It doesn't seem like he was hated, per say, just kind of stuck to the outskirts of comraderie when it came to his brothers. I do know it's mentioned in Betrayal that he and Perturabo aren't exactly best buds, which is odd because they're so similar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4087685 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Idaho Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 In what way in Angron's philosophical insight shut up Guilliman? Whenever he goes on his little rants his brothers would end up shaking their heads and give up. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4087899 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skalpynock Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I do know it's mentioned in Betrayal that he and Perturabo aren't exactly best buds, which is odd because they're so similar. Well we have to note that due to his upbringing, Mortarion despised not only psykers, but also tyrants (though not as much as Corax), and that the Iron Lord's titles included "Tyrant of Lochos" and "Satrap of Meratara". While the form of their methods to wage war were similar, the idea and reasoning were at odds. Likewise with Perturabo's relationship (or absence thereof) with Ferrus Manus: while the latter was fully aware of his nature as a weapon and general, the former saw his part in the Imperium as something greater than just the effort of the Crusade, creating works not only dedicated to war, but also at rebuilding Mankind's lost empire. Anyone who speaks of the Gorgon as the Emperor's technical abilities is misguided, for that lies within the Breaker; Ferrus is a warrior first and foremost, and he creates only engines of destruction of what was. Moping up and rebuilding is a task for humans, Astartes are made to wage war. All three were the most callous primarchs, and fought in similar fashions, but when we look behind the appearance we see that their minds were incompatible beyond joint operation. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4088007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
rendingon1+ Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What about the Lion? I read that he was friends with Russ (only after disappearance of both primarchs contact between I and VI degraded) and Guilliman "admired" and "looked up to him". Do we know anything else? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4088056 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sol_Invictus Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Perturabo tried to confide in ferrus, and ferrus just looked with disdain upon perturabo, thinking him a weak fool. Whats the reference for that? In Angel Exterminatus Perturabo talks about how he mentioned to Ferrus that he could see the Eye of Terror and Ferrus's response was not very understanding or something so then Perturabo never mentions it to anyone else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4088163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Petitioner's City Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 It would be good to start compiling quotes from the novels, novellas and shorts about the primarchs' relationships on this subject. Like I've tried above. Then we would have sources for this all. Of course writers write differently, and that would be useful to see too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309265-primarchs-and-friendships/page/3/#findComment-4088462 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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