Freeman82 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Does any one have any links, knowledge, info or idea if BA´s has just the slightest chance to benefit from this ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 As far as I know, it is a normal formation. As in not part of codex space marines. So any imperium army can take it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freeman82 Posted June 13, 2015 Author Share Posted June 13, 2015 That sure does sound tasty :) we needed something like that, to make our ASM shine even more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 You can not take BA assault marines though. Only vanilla space marines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marine7312000 Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 What GW need to do is what FW did in the IA2V2 book and list which armies can use the vehicle but do this for formations/ dataslates. OT, as far as I know you cannot use this formation and use the BA dex to compile the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 Datasheets already list which army they're for. The standard army icon is in the header and, for Formations, above the frame of the restrictions box. It's a Space Marine Formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blindhamster Posted June 13, 2015 Share Posted June 13, 2015 yeah, whilst we can use it, we'd be using regular marine rules for the units included in it. daft as this is exactly the sort of formation that fits the BA, but such is life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Does it say you need to give all the units the same chapter tactic? Out of interest... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 From elite40k.blogspot.fr Composition The Skyhammer Annihilation Force comprises: Two Assault Squads with Jump Packs Two Devastator Squads in Drop Pods And no less than four special rules: Shock Deployment: All units in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force start the game in Deep Strike Reserve. Instead of using the normal deployment and reserve rules for these units, you can, during deployment, choose whether this Formation will arrive during your first or second turn. The entire Skyhammer Annihilation Force automatically arrives on the turn you choose—no Reserve Rolls are required. Ignore this Formation's Drop Pods for the purposes of the Drop Pod Assault special rule. First the Fire, then the Blade: On the turn they arrive from Deep Strike Reserve, the Devastator Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force have the Relentless special rule and the Assault Squads can charge even though they arrived from Reserves that turn. Suppressing Fusillade: A unit targeted by a Skyhammer Annihilation Force's Devastator Squad in the Shooting phase must take a Morale test at the end of the phase on 3D6, regardless of how many casualties were inflicted. If the test is failed, the enemy unit does not Fall Back, but must immediately Go to Ground. If the test is passed, the enemy unit is unable to fire Overwatch for the rest of the turn. Leave No Survivors: Assault Squads in a Skyhammer Annihilation Force can use their Jump Packs in both the Movement phase and the Assault phase. If an Assault Squad from a Skyhammer Annihilation Force charges a unit that has Gone to Ground as a result of the Suppressing Fusillade special rule, that Assault Squad can reroll failed To Hit and To Wound rolls in the ensuring Assault phase. Application Putting all these special rules together, we get: An extra two Drop Pods arriving turn one, on top of whatever you're getting from Drop Pod Assault Two* Devastator Squads that Pod in with Relentless—perfect for quad-grav squads Two* Assault Squads that must Deep Strike in, but can then charge immediately with no risk of Overwatch, plus Hammer of Wrath and rerolls on charge range and To Hit and To Wound This Formation is exceptionally powerful, because it comprises four valuable units with no tax, and effectively ignores all the detriments of Deep Strike! Furthermore, the Chapter Tactics and Combat Squads rules also apply to this Formation. Remember that you can choose Chapter Tactics for this Formation independently of other Formations and Detachments in your army; I think Ultramarines would be best so your Devastators can reroll To Hit on the turn they arrive. If you take 10-man squads then you can Combat Squad into up to four Assault and Devastator Squads respectively; this would allow you to semi-reliably Pin up to four enemy units, and tarpit up to four other enemy units in assault, on your first turn—potentially before your opponent has even had his first move! Finally, if you're willing to gamble against the risk of Mishaps, you could load up an Assault Squad with attached Independent Characters with Jump Packs / Terminator Armour / another form of Deep Strike, then first turn charge with your deathstar without them ever being shot. Conclusion I don't know why GW persist with releasing 'webstore exclusive' rules (or 'White Dwarf exclusive') instead of just including them in publications, or emailing them out to their mailing lists as an incentive to subscribe to their spam. There is no actual exclusivity to these rules—they will get published online sooner or later. And while I personally love the new rapid-release approach GW has adopted over the last couple of years, making rules difficult to access serves no meaningful purpose—and is somewhat detrimental to competitive play, since no one likes to get surprised by new rules mid-way through a tournament! But release method aside, GW have really done well with this new Formation. Space Marines really needed a boost to get them back onto competitive tables, and the Skyhammer Annihilation Force just might be a big factor in their resurgence. Watch out for this one on the battlefield! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 Does it say you need to give all the units the same chapter tactic? Out of interest... The Chapter Tactics rules state that all units in a Detachment/Formation must have the same Chapter Tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted June 14, 2015 Share Posted June 14, 2015 I Believe that this detachment would work better as a second turn strike in combination with a gunline approach, not pure alpha strike. Going second means that you counter any reserves the opponent might use to rob you of valid targets, as well as a turn to deal with de-meching and removing bubblewrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 This formation offers up a lot options, and is IMO is going to be every popular even if we cant take it. We could always ally it in. While the good old internet was screaming broken, it's not nor would I say its OP. But it will offer up some unique challenges for guy at the other end of the table. It can get very expensive quick, and come up short if you use it wrong. Turn 1 vs 2 is going to be debated heavily with no right or wrong answer, the flexibility of this, is what makes it strong because you can see what the type of list you're facing and go from there. They key is getting to land where you want it too, this can done in serval ways, one drop pods whit beacons, place down your drop pod with bacon first, giving it the legacy of glory so it doesn't scatter. Than if you choose to have it come in turn one or two, it's not scattering and going to land where you want it too. Other options scouts or normal tac with beacon. But one that stands out proving we can take it is meltcid in drop pod with upgrade comes in and than draws the rest of force down. But for added survival and insurance drop pod beacon and 10 man tac with beacon as well. Remove both drop pod and 10 tac in 1 turn of shooting is hard press to do, even for tau mark light spams. Because of how the rules are written for it, you can land your drop pods first ( ones not part of formation) than choice to for it to arrive first or second turn with near pin point precision. Even with scattering in effect it isn't going to limit use, moving with dev and the range still makes them a threat, and jump gives 24" threat range. So just in case goes wrong it can still be effective. Weapon layout for the dev, is going to depend on how points you want to drop on these. I going to skip the grav cannon debate because we don't have access to them, plus I feel there too costly in this formation anyhow. But I will say putting grav combi on Sgt. is worth while no matter the weapon choices. Simple to concuss something. The all around option is ML, works great when building an all comers list for events, can handle hordes and threat armor. If you tailor its to known opt, than pick what suits you. For the assault sq., providing we can use this, melta look great because after they land you still need the assault sq. to threat something. For the Sgt. gav pistol, or infero pistol look temping but adding up in points, with the given rolls a PW is looking better. If we have use allies to get this, than thats toss up because we lose the +1s and gain limited options on assault sq. Flamers would be good pick up when using non BA. Plasm pistol is too costly. Overall this I feel this formation is worthwhile and a nice addition to any force when planned out to support the rest of list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 What i like is that it makes you see more ucommon units, but i think they kinda went overboard on special rules. Charging from pod's and relentless really should be enough. 100% reserve chanse, no overwatch, reroll charge distance and selecting which turn they come in deployment seems a bit much. It will give the imperium more ways to deal with xenos which is good for tournaments, but a lot of casual players will have less fun as they might deploy badly vs it or have no units to deal with it in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaun03 Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 If you want to take cynical side of things, one could say they gave them all the rules just push the new kits. But than why on earth would business want to make a new products more attractive and boost sales. Either way I really like this formation and waiting on official conformation if can use be used by BA, but until than it found a home in my Carcharodons. I see the point that geared to competitive play,which is fine and in friendly games it might not go over so well. As 1st turn charges something not often seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Finally, if you're willing to gamble against the risk of Mishaps, you could load up an Assault Squad with attached Independent Characters with Jump Packs / Terminator Armour / another form of Deep Strike, then first turn charge with your deathstar without them ever being shot. This is the only point I would take issue with. The special rules only apply to models in the formation. If you add an IC, he is not part of the formation and the special rules do not apply to him. If even one model in the squad cannot assault (because he Deep Struck and does not have the exemption) then the rest of the squad cannot assault. Putting an IC with the assault squads would therefore rob them of the formation benefits. However there is not problem with putting an IC in the Devastator drop pods (assuming you leave space for them). This is because Relentless is applied on a per-model basis so even if the IC does not have Relentless, it will not hamper the rest of the squad. Librarian with Auspex might be a nice option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I agree on the attached IC, he doesn't gain formation rules by being attached to them so the squad with him in couldn't charge, with good reason too, imagine getting a kitted chapter master or the like a free one turn charge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Delfeld Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 I like this formation very much, and i'm disappointed by the fact that we can't use it. Fluff wise we should have the ones who invented it xD. Btw i will probably use it with my BA as red C:SM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 ... and that's the thing; we can use it. We can use any Formation we want (yes even Tyranid ones), the only thing we have to worry about is how we (the rest of out forces) interact with them. So by all means, use this (and every other Marine Formation) with your red guys and a suitable Chapter Trait. Many of us were doing it anyway with the Adeptus Astartes Stormwing, so there is no difference here. The question is, what Chapter Trait is 1) best to us and 2) the one that synergises the most with our other units? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The question is, what Chapter Trait is 1) best to us and 2) the one that synergises the most with our other units? Combat Doctrines (Ultrasmurfs) is probably a good choice. Give the Devs a reroll to hit on the turn they land to ensure your drop zone is well and truly secured. Then save the Assault Doctrine for when your asault squads need the extra punch. IFs don't get much benefit out of theirs unless you go heavy bolters which seems a waste. WSs getting H&R on the assault squads could be handy but is not a big buff and no bikers to benefit. BTs and Salamanders are OK but nothing amazing IHs are pretty good too as they are a bit more resilient than normal which can be handy if dropping into the middle of the enemy. RG don't benefit much as you will be hitting them hard and fast before you need to worry about steath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Figured. I'm guessing we can't use the FW Chapter Traits with this? Oh, and cheers for pointing out the stuff in post #15 :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Midnightmare Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 The question is, what Chapter Trait is 1) best to us and 2) the one that synergises the most with our other units? Combat Doctrines (Ultrasmurfs) is probably a good choice. Give the Devs a reroll to hit on the turn they land to ensure your drop zone is well and truly secured. Then save the Assault Doctrine for when your asault squads need the extra punch. IFs don't get much benefit out of theirs unless you go heavy bolters which seems a waste. WSs getting H&R on the assault squads could be handy but is not a big buff and no bikers to benefit. BTs and Salamanders are OK but nothing amazing IHs are pretty good too as they are a bit more resilient than normal which can be handy if dropping into the middle of the enemy. RG don't benefit much as you will be hitting them hard and fast before you need to worry about steath. IH imho. I may at some point even paint some up; kind of a Flesh is Weak v Flesh is Strong type vibe between my forces. Could be quite a cool strike force actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 BT has the potential to turn those assault Marines into something scary with added rage! White scars will probably be best, or UM for more reroll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well, I'll be picking up a second squad of devistators over the weekend. :) Theres now reason why I can't take a Baal Strike Force as my main detachment and then use this formation as well is there? Sure the Marines will be red, but as The Redeemers arn't "Blood Angels" per se' anyway, I can't see how this breaks any rules. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Absolutely fine and a great way to get (for now) grav cannons into our forces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penumbra Posted June 15, 2015 Share Posted June 15, 2015 Well, I'll be picking up a second squad of devistators over the weekend. Theres now reason why I can't take a Baal Strike Force as my main detachment and then use this formation as well is there? Sure the Marines will be red, but as The Redeemers arn't "Blood Angels" per se' anyway, I can't see how this breaks any rules. Thoughts? Nope, the SAF can be taken as a stand alone formation, given any CT from the SM Codex you like. So what your suggesting is perfectly legal and a bloody good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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