78zrider Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hello all. I was planing on running the crusader with my war convocation for support. I've seen/heard people say Pali/warden are better choices? What one is best for the convocation or does it depend on the situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raziel69r Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 Hey buddy, I was originally going to run the crusader until i realized that all I wanted was that gigantic mini gun so I switched to the warden and sank the 50 points I saved into a second dragoon and I must say that it worked a treat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zrider Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share Posted June 17, 2015 Thanks for the response. I'm a fan of the mini gun and the cannon that's why I was going to use crusader. Is the extra points and a d weapon better then the heavy battle cannon/thermal cannon? I eventually plan on going the ally drop pods route Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted June 17, 2015 Share Posted June 17, 2015 After fighting Crusaders with my own Knights... I'm not impressed. I have a heavily-skewed viewpoint, though. I see them as woefully easy targets, but any other army would have different results. I wouldn't give up my Reaper Chainswords for anything. As part of a Convocation, I'd pick either a Paladin or Warden. You're likely packing enough arc weaponry to take down heavy vehicles, and enough plasma to take down TEQs. The Paladin in particular is my favorite as a middle-of-the-road terror weapon - dropping two pie plates per turn and a death sentence for most units in assault. Let your opponent focus on that while your Skitarii/Kataphrons/Kastelans do their work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Damn you GW Marketing Department, damn yooooooou! Knights aren't Titans but I understand why. As Commodus 12+1 pointed out, if you think you're facing other superheavies or GCs then keep something with a reaper or gauntlet (for less serious business) around for some D access, otherwise I'd go for a Crusader for additional dakka. A Knight armed with one CC weapon is the most flexible, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Immersturm has a really good topic/tactica on this deeper in our AdMech forums. I think you'll gain a bit of insight from a thorough read there (though apparently I can't get it to link here). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Here --> http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/307235-tactica-imperial-knights-working-on-allies/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Knights are Knight-class Titans. They always have been, they always will be. Deny all you want, you do not have enough dice to when that denial roll. I find that the best Knight for a Convocation is the one that fills your need. Need more pie-plates? Paladin. Need more dakka? Warden. Need both? Crusader. Need neither? Errant. Need points? Gallant. Knight Titans are a personal thing. Pun intended. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terminus Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I would pick the Warden or Paladin. You don't really need the Errant since you have arc rifles for armor and grav cannons for terminators. The Warden is really tempting since the Knight benefits from canticles/imperatives and can have an accuracy boost pretty much every turn for all those attacks. My ultimate choice is probably going to be the Paladin for his flexibility. The list lacks high strength weapons except for Neutron lasers, so the Paladin gives you two nice S8 templates to gib Marines and Necrons (plus a free missile launcher and melta for more S8 AP3). So he could blow up a vehicle with the 4 missiles and meltagun, light up the contents with the battle cannons, and then shoot the stubber at a third target and charge it to D and stomp it to death. Crusader is in my opinion the weakest choice. None of the weapon options are worth 50 points AND giving up a D weapon. I'd consider it in a Knight army as a 3rd or 4th Knight only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zrider Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 i play against necrons, gray wolfs, eldar mostly and some random chaos, tank army's. Also is the anti air weapon worth it on any of them. I have been reading the Titan page. But I haven't really seen any yes/no answers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Like the Icarus Autocannon option, as more shots is more shots. However, the Stormspear is the better carapace option, an extra three S8 AP3 shots are nice to have. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zrider Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 So Pali with stormspear My dunecrawler unit is 1 Icarus array, 2 neutron laser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Knights are Knight-class Titans. They always have been, they always will be. Deny all you want, you do not have enough dice to when that denial roll. SJ With respect this is absolute rubbish. I have infinite deny dice, all with a six on each side. Knights have always been separate from Titans: the Imperial & Eldar Knights were when they were released in WD 126, every mention of the word "Titan" is a comparison to an external entity, not a shared class. The only two things that Knights had in common back then in Epic were stomp attacks & that they fired in the Titan phase (but moved in the Vehicle Phase and couldn't repair). Knights are separate in terms of the fluff for organisation & operations as a good chunk of Knights aren't operated by the Adeptus Mechanicus. They only bear passing similarities to their larger cousins but have never been classed as actual Titans. If you have the digital version of the 6E & 7E Imperial Knight books do a search for "Knight Titan" and "Knight-Titan". You'll find the exact same number references as you would Dodos in the high street - none. It's only on the box of the model because it's more identifiable as IP than the very vague "Imperial Knight". Your advice on actual Knights is spot-on though. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is correct. Knights were not referred to as Titans until the first kit hit the shelves. They may be closely related, but if anything should be considered distant cousins rather than direct family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 This is correct. Knights were not referred to as Titans until the first kit hit the shelves. They may be closely related, but if anything should be considered distant cousins rather than direct family. Run outta likes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The Imperial Knight model kit has "Imperial Knight Titan" printed right on the box. /drops mic SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Right, which is exactly what both MaulerUK and I are saying. The kit is branded "Knight Titan", but this is both the first time (after decades of fluff in EPIC and elsewhere) and the only place (across two Codices and several Campaign Supplements and tie-in novels) that Knights are referred to as Titans. They aren't part of the Collegia Titanicus and share none of the heraldry, traditions, structure, etc. Being large mechanized suits of armor controlled by an MIU, they are certainly related to Titans - but the more distant Dreadnought could also be included in that larger family of war machines. Functionally, however, they're distinct both in organization and role. According the new fluff, many Households aren't even part of either the Imperium or the Mechanicus but form a third human power sphere that operates in close concert with the other two. (EDIT: Here's an absolutely excellent segment on Titans and Knights. The first 5.5 minutes cover Titans, and the last 4 minutes cover Knights. There's a 10.5-minute follow-up segment on specific Titan chassis. Short of chewing through the 40K Wiki or Lexicanum, you won't find a more comprehensive explanation.) GW can't claim the term "Knight" as their IP. Even "Imperial Knight" is already part of the Star Wars Expanded Universe IP and claims the top Google search result spot. However, "Imperial Knight Titan" is another matter. It makes sense from a purely business perspective - and thus, it found its way onto the box. A trademark-related blurb on a cardboard box, or decades of established fluff and background - we can ignore one, and you're perfectly free to ignore the other if you choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeffersonian000 Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I've been play 40k since RT. Knight's have been Titans since inception, over 20 years ago. Calling them Titans now is not a new thing. They were Titans in Epic, they are still Titans in 7th. The smallest of the Titan classes. SJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CommodusXIII Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Imperial Knights were first added to the 40K universe as an expansion to Adeptus Titanicus, the precursor to EPIC. This was published in White Dwarf 126. The full issue is available online - the introduction of the Knights begins on page 28 (page 30 of the scan). It's very interesting, though the fluff has been slightly retconned in the two 40K Codices to downplay the Eldar Exodites. Page 30 of the issue (32 of the scan) details the similarities and differences between Titans and Knights. This is also the first introduction of the Eldar Wraithknight, which has been retconned to an even greater extent. It's cool to see just how far we've come! EDIT: Sorry, 78zrider - I know we've thoroughly derailed your thread. If the mods prefer, this discussion (and the previous posts) could be moved to its own thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zrider Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'm going with the Pali I think Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
banis Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Im going to throw some more fuel on the fire here.. Was gettin chilly in here. The first sentence under the warhound titan the the newest HH book reads.. "The warhound is the smallest class of 'true' Titan." Last time i looked the warhound is bigger than a knight;). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Ommadon Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 @78zrider Just be aware that if the Icarus Array wants to fire at a Flyer, the Neutron Lasers are wasted as they can't even snap at a Flyer. Likewise if the Neutron Lasers want to fire at a ground target the Icarus Array will have to be snapping at the same target (though you can still Intercept a Flyer). In my opinion Dunecrawlers that use Arrays would be better by themselves or with other Arrays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zrider Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 Should I just go three lasers then? I figured having something anti air would be worth it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Just put it in a separate squadron on its own. Having one of the best AA units in the game in your army is worth losing a pip of invulnerable save. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
78zrider Posted June 20, 2015 Author Share Posted June 20, 2015 How does that work with the war convocation tho. I'm still new to game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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