demio Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Evening all I have been out of the hobby for over 2 years now and am planning on starting a Horus Heresy Fists army. So what I was going to do was order the x2 small books and x2 Tactical squad with Rhinos. But I read on another thread that Fists can take breacher squads as troops. Ok so my question is where do I start? As I don't have the book yet I can't go overboard as I don't really want to buy anything I won't use a lot yet. Can anyone give me some advice on best troops to buy for fists and maybe something awesome to treat myself? Also any general advice for fists would be great before my books arrive. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Everyone can take Breachers as troops, but they are very expensive, for very little gain. (Despite that, I have a squad...they are awesome looking.) I will get my books out once I'm done work and let you know the run down on these guys if some kind soul doesnt help you out first. :] Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4092651 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 the imperial fists "Right of War" (30k chapter tactics for simplicity) require 2 units of breachers for you're troop choices this "Gauntlet of Stone" right of war is cool and charactfull it is dependant on meta for real performance I started a Fists 30k army and bought tacs (never a bad buy) but I wish I bought some breachers for fun cause they just look so cool . B4 tonight is over the resident pro of VII legion tactics will be on this thread and provide all the knowledge you need for starting any kind of yellow list His name is Slipstreams and I'd you stick to the Fists (and he will tell you why you should) you will come to respect his advice as pretty much the word of law when it comes to 30k Imperial fists lol good luck and welcome to the most beautiful world of forge world resin Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4092745 Share on other sites More sharing options...
demio Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Cheers guys. I have money waiting it's just a bit hard without the books. Oh and does anyone think a unit of jet bikes can fit in a Imperial list? Models are lovely. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4092762 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 with heavy bolters they sure can Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4092765 Share on other sites More sharing options...
lionofjudah Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I love the jetbikes... And breachers. Get Polux as your HQ and let the shield wall roll forward. What kind of army do you want to run? Tacs in rhinos are awesome... Tacs in pods are even better (imho)... And in 30k blocks of 20 tacs with an apothecary is fluff and money. BS+1 bolter shots army wide means any and all bolter shots are now SUPER money! If you want to get the 2 tacs/rhinos first I'd turn them into vets, give them sniper with HB's and say goodbye to who you turn them loose on. Breachers are great objective sitters and I'd recommend getting a big ole block of them and attach a medic, throw in grav guns to taste and let the good times roll. Look at your quad HB rapiers and now you'll pretty much never miss, fast attack legion seekers with combi(whatever's) with a vigilator in a phobos and you are behind enemy lines turn 1 destroying pretty much whatever you want. The Fists are your friend and yellow painting is zen. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4092900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phalanx Warder Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Welcome to the VII! I will articulate some of the buffs we get for having the Legion Astartes: Imperial Fists (LA:IF) and let you decide the direction you wish to go. Bolt gun weaponry. We gain +1 BS when we use them, hitting on 2's is nice so long as the firing unit has the LA:IF rule Teleport transponer. Deep strike is kind of rare in 30k and we have access to it! Challenges. We have to always issue and accept challenges where possible, but we get to re roll 1 failed to hit dice. Unique wargear. We have access to some nice equipment the Solitaire Gauntlet (special power fist), terminators can take an assault cannon that only us and the Blood Angels can get aaaand Storm shields. Our Right of War the Stone Gauntlet: makes breachers compulsory troops choices, grants a toughness bonus of +1 to models with a shield, and gain hammer of wrath on the charge. It also makes Phalanx Warders (a unique Breacher squad) Troop choices (they are Fast attack choices normally) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4092920 Share on other sites More sharing options...
demio Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Argh it's so difficult without the book lol. Cheers for all the help guys. I think for now to be safe I will order the books 1 Tactical squad with Bolter and Rhino aswell as 7 Jet bikes and turn 1 into apothecary. If I was running 6 Jet bikes is it worth swapping out xw heavy bolter or is it not worth losing the +1 BS? Also what are solid choices? Plasma Cannons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093213 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 It sounds like you're doing the right thing with getting the two Red books straight out of the gate - if you're serious about doing 30k then you need these at a minimum, especially if you're not going to get the larger books (you should, btw - they are seriously awesome and puts GW mainstream to shame). Seeing as you're already sticking your flag to the VIIth, good choice, it might help to understand what you're planning to get out of this. Primarily: Are you purely going for 30k, or are you potentially going to use the same models for 40k too? It may seem like a stupid question, as models are models and the FIsts have 40k rules too. The key difference is that 30k has a different unit structure to 40k, and to transfer across you're going to need some additional models. Key example are Tactical squads, as the 30k guys are armed with nothing but bolters so to transition across to 40k you're going to need to find the special and heavy weapon from somewhere. In 30k bigger is better, so are you going to scale up? Squads are bigger during the heresy, period! Not only are they bigger, but the min size squad will be more expensive than the additional boots you buy later, so the larger squads are more points effecient on a model-by-model basis. Tactical squads, 5-10 in 40k but start at 10 and go to 20 in 30k. With Imperial Fists getting bonuses to bolt weapons, a large Tactical Squad makes all kinds of sense. You've mentioned about getting the bundle deal of a Tactical Squad with a Rhino - as an initial purchase you may want to look at the other deals and come back to the Rhino later. There are plenty of decent squad transports, and some will allow you to take a full Tactical Squad of 20. Having a Rhino for a Veteran squad (as mentioned above) is still a good idea. Are you going Gaming, Fluffy, or Shiny? Different people have different reasons for collecting. Some rimarily game, and will buy and build a force to a specific list. Others like something more fitting to the Legion they're collecting rather than the playstyle. Some just like to collect and paint models, and are drawn to the "Shiny" models that ForgeWorld can pump out. Which do you see yourself more leaning toards (I don't hink anyone can say they lean only to one of the above, but certainly more towards one than others). Who is leading your force? Difficult question for you to answer as you don't have the books, but obviously the two special characters are now available, have any of them caught your eye? There are more generic options available in the choices of Praetors (who have the ability to take a Rite of War) and some Consuls (some of whom can lead the force, others are optional). Someone like Pollux may be a good "treat" for you, especially if you're considering Breachers. Other than those questions, I would stick to the basics, get some regular Bolter guys as part of a Bundle deal (seriously, those Bundle deals do save you~5%-10% or so, and are actually worth taking) and see where the books take you. The only other thing I would suggest is looking at the Upgrade kits and maybe ordering some of those as well. THe pads are definately worth it (and come in Marks II - IV), and the torsos set for MK III are really nice and don't look too shabby as sergeant upgrades to MK IV. They bump up the price per model for sure, but if you're leaning towards "Shiny" / "Fluffy" then they're really worth it. Considering the Legion is one of the first to get Storm Shields and Assault Cannons, Terminators are always a fun unit to put together and paint up so might be a good consideration for more of a "treat" alongside the regular rank and file. Plus ForgeWorld have great tanks... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093286 Share on other sites More sharing options...
demio Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Wow cheers for the help. I have very much shiny syndrome. Jet bikes being perfect example lol I love the models and really want them. Generally speaking I like a more mobile force as opposed to footsloggingslogging hundreds of marines across the board. Preferably I would like an armoured list as I really like tanks. Can this be done with Fists? Yes I am building for 30k. I will get the bigger books at some point but not just yet. I wouldn't mind say the odd unit of 20 Marines but what in the world would I transport them in? What would you suggest as core then? I want my first buy to include troops but not sure what to get? Do I get a big 20 man breacher unit or a 20 man tac or a 10 man tac or? Lol Sigismund!! Oh my God seriously! Yes please lol. I like the idea of Breacher units. All Tanks are awesome and even more tanks lol. Cheers for the help! I really want to put an order in today but at the prices don't want to waste money just yet. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093304 Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_r_parker Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The great thing about 30k is that just about any force can be built up for any Legion, it's a lot more free than the 40k counterparts. You want to do an mechanised force with plenty of tanks, sure - there are plenty of Rites of War that allow you to change parts of the FoC and give you corresponding bonuses / limitations. You will need a Praetor to gain access to these Rites, and special characters tend to have thier own Rites which are unique to them. The Fist related Rites tend to be more static and make more use of Breachers, but there's nothing stopping you from taking the more generic Rites and going for something more suitable. I particularly like the Pride of the Legion Rite that allows you to take Veteran and Terminator squads as Troop choices. If you're itching to get i an order today and "don't want to waste money", are you targetting a £250 or equivalent order to get free shipping from ForgeWorld? Shipping is a killer, especially if you're going mid-range on an order. If you're planning on the two Red books and a solid troop choice (and maybe some jetbikes from the sounds of it), you're well on the way to the free-shipping boundary. Chucking in things like Legion shoulder pads or upgrade kits, and Power Weapon kits (where you get your various pistols, Power Weapons and Power Fists, Lightning Claws, etc) can get you above the limit and put you in good stead for the future. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093380 Share on other sites More sharing options...
infyrana Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 You would do well to read the Age of Darkness army list section and all entries relating to your legion choice. In addition, check the tactics section and read any unit or legion related info your interested on on the 1d4chan 30k page. I'd err on the side of caution on the jetbikes, just make sure they fit in with your lists overall vision. Expensive investment if you should end up discovering a rite of war that changes your end goal. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093454 Share on other sites More sharing options...
noigrim Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 mind that as per the 3rd book, heavy support squads have tank hunters default, give them missile launchers for +5pts and there you go: long range meltabombs! you can gove them augury scanner for interceptor too. Not sure if the red book says the same tough Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093534 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 just out of curiosity what armour mark or marks are you thinking of useing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093678 Share on other sites More sharing options...
demio Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 Cheers for all the help! I decided in the end to buy models I like and live with it. So I ordered 7 jet bikes 2 apothocaries and 20 breacher marines. I will be using mainly MK3 with some MK4. Oh and Sigismund. I will start a WiP log when I get them. Cheers for all the help. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093858 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fangbanger Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I wouldn't mind say the odd unit of 20 Marines but what in the world would I transport them in? .Oh my good man fear not, we have that covered here in the year 30,000..... http://i.imgur.com/P4Q9LYK.jpg So you wanna transport 20 guys? Heck chuck 25 in and point, nothing will get in the way of your av14 taxi with 5 hull points. And yes, that there is a quad lascanon and yes, there's another one on the other side Edit: just FYI this is not my Spartan but just one I found on Google! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4093979 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Viridia Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Welcome to the Fists of Terra, fellow newcomer! I'd say you've made a good choice; there's lots of IF fans here and they all know what they're talking about, especially Slipstreams. You've got a good variation in your army too, and that's always handy. Good luck with your army! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094007 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tdemayo Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 Unless you're planning a terminator or breacher-only build, can't go wrong starting with a bunch of bolter Marines -- can be Tacticals, vets, whatever. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094302 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 10 man Tac Vets squad with 2 Heavy Bolters and the Sniper USR chosen makes for a pretty effective anti-Toughness-Based unit. Give them melta bombs though and they can deal with Armor if your willing to risk it. But, Being BS5 and hitting on 2s, and always wounding on 4s (unless you have better) means that vs Armies like the Iron Hands (-1S from Shooting) or Mechanicum (High Toughness in general) you're already more effective at shooting them than Other Legions. Hitting on 2+ and gaining Precision Shot if the To-Hit roll is a 6 followed by a minimum of 4+ To-Wound with the potential for Ap2 if a 6 is rolled makes for pretty nasty shooting; it means if you're lucky, you could pick off special weapons/gear from squads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094346 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorv88 Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 This thread has been immensely helpful for my own Fists too. I'm on holiday for a week now and when I get back my Forgeworld should have arrived and j cannot wait to get stuck in!! That Spartan looks sick. Has anyone tried Polux in a Caestus? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094636 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cronhour Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 I'm just starting out as well and was thinking of the fists special rite of war. The one where you have to take two phalanx warder squads if memory serves?I'm wondering how to kit them out though? They get the plus 1 initiative when charged so the axes feel a little wasteful? edit: don't rush post on your phone from work, lesson learned. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094675 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raktra Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 mind that as per the 3rd book, heavy support squads have tank hunters default, give them missile launchers for +5pts and there you go: long range meltabombs Not quite, it's a re-roll not an additional dice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 well Cronhour the "stone Gauntlet" write of war requires two breacher siege squads as "compulsory" troop choices and then also makes Wardens troops as well I believe (don't have books right now not at home) and actually Phalanx Warder and Slipstreams where just discussing and emailed forge world about the +1 in. and it turns out that this applies to you're snapshot in overwatch and so I think alot of people are going to be loading them out with plazma and letting them eat a charge in order to use basically another round of shooting with rapid fire plasma and then get the initiative bonus for any characters in the unit for close combat. again let phalanxewarder or slips weigh in on this I am rusty on warder rules as I never planed on useing them (but now I do lol) and I am without my books at the moment Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4094804 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 well Cronhour the "stone Gauntlet" write of war requires two breacher siege squads as "compulsory" troop choices and then also makes Wardens troops as well I believe (don't have books right now not at home) and actually Phalanx Warder and Slipstreams where just discussing and emailed forge world about the +1 in. and it turns out that this applies to you're snapshot in overwatch and so I think alot of people are going to be loading them out with plazma and letting them eat a charge in order to use basically another round of shooting with rapid fire plasma and then get the initiative bonus for any characters in the unit for close combat. again let phalanxewarder or slips weigh in on this I am rusty on warder rules as I never planed on useing them (but now I do lol) and I am without my books at the moment Just to clarify, the +1Initiative only really comes into play when making Reaction Fire Tests in Zone Mortalis to permit the squad to Overwatch at full BS. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4095038 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriegriss Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 lol see what I mean about letting guys like slips clarify all the rules I misinterpreted and mangled thanks for the clarification and for emailing FW on that rule it really makes them a more interesting choice to take in Zone Mortalis games Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309589-starting-imperial-fists/#findComment-4095042 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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