j.bland1984 Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Getting back into AM after focussing on my Necrons and Dark Eldar for awhile. Scanning lists and Tacticas and pretty much every list I see either an Aegis Defense Line, or Pask in a Punisher. Not wanting to make Gunline guard, and not wanting to sink 40% of my points into a Tank Commander squadron with Pask, I am simply wondering if these are the "auto includes" everyone makes them out to be, or if you can still run a pure Astra army without them. (When I say pure, the only armies I have seen without Pasquisher or an AGL have an Imperial Knight in them). Thoughts? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
hendrik Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 there are plenty of viable options out there! one of the reasons why pask is so popular is because a) he's a very decent buff, he's still a shiny new toy now that he takes up a HQ slot and plenty of players have been waiting for tank HQ's for ages. The same reasoning goes for a knight, it's a shiny new toy, and many players want to try it (plus it has some advantages over 2 leman russes, and is in general, a very decent unit) truely, the only less viable units in the dex IMO are the sanctioned psycher unit, ogryns and roughriders, and even these alter two are still fielded at times to great succes. So to summarize the answer, offcourse you can still make a viable army withouth pask, ADL or imperial knight in it. the question is, what sort of a force do you want? here's a quick list not a lot of people expect, that can still overwhelm a lot of list imo due to sheer numbers: company command squad, 10 pts upgrade, chimera 135 platoon A 610 pts PCS, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera platoon A 610 pts PCS, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera inf sqd, 10 pts upgrade, chimera Wyvern 65 pts Wyvern 65 pts 15 pts left to spare giving you a total of: 95 guardsmen, 11 special weapons (i would go for a mix of meltas and AC), 11 chimeras, 2 wyverns... that's a lot of shots, and a lot of armour that's also superscoring, so you can even decide to run the chimeras empty while some of the guardsmen stay behind to hold the line in the back... sure, this list will struggle with some lists, especially ones fielding lots of armour, but it offers volume,of troops and tanks, and can dish out a lot of pain! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/#findComment-4092854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
j.bland1984 Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks a lot for the ideas. I was looking at running something similar to this. One blob platoon with an ordo inquisitor to act as a commissar/psyker, one fully mechanized platoon, and two company command squads, some artillery, and (simply because the models are awesome) either sentinels or tauros's I bought three of the Cadian Defense boxes. So I have plenty of troops, enough to make 3 chimeras, one company command squad, 2 platoon command squad, and three lemans. Going to hold off on the lemans for now, and build something more in line with what I just described. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/#findComment-4092860 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Father Mehman Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Hendrik, your Iron Fist is strong with this one. I bow to you. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/#findComment-4092889 Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarriorFish Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 The term "auto-include" is a misnomer, but it's tedious to say "a very good unit/combination/etc, such that it is hard to pass up" each time :P So they are by no means essential as there are other builds that are effective :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/#findComment-4093345 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Gonna echo WF on this one; auto-include is a strong term in my book. I'd count the only true auto-includes as what you need to take a particular detachment or formation (compulsory, right?). That said, there are units that are more OPTIMAL for pure competitive play, certainly. For IG, this is stuff like Veterans, Pask, Wyverns, Vendettas, and the like. These units are very powerful considering their price tag, but you won't NEED them to succeed since IG tends toward a more balanced overall army design. What it really comes down to is how you want to focus your list (and focus is the key, here). If you want to flood the board with bodies, you'll need Infantry Platoons and Commissars/Ministorum Priests. If you want to run an Armored Company, you're gonna need a bunch of Leman Russ tanks (with supporting Chimeras/Wyverns/etc.). As it stands, though, IG can play toward a static or mobile force with equal ease, and they ally well if that's your bag. But would I consider Pask or the ADL necessary? Certainly not. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/#findComment-4093732 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 I don't run pask or an ADL in my list. In fact I have no leman russes (yet), and my list relies on aircraft and light armored vehicles to get the job done, with deep striking stormtroopers to back it up. It's a hard hitting list that doesn't pull any punches. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309600-supposed-auto-includes-aegis-dl-and-paskquisher/#findComment-4093781 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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