Daemon2027 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So power means worship. That's the outdated system we fight to replace. Yes the Emperor has immense power. That is why he was leads us, why we fight for him. But that power doesn't make him a God. The Emperor was giving us the means to govern ourselves. There was the council of Terra, he raised one of his Sons to warmaster. You traitors name him tyrant but out disgusted when he moved to retire to Terra. He was our warlord, our guiding father, our ceaser but never our God. So Bearer of the Word, the Emperor wanted to create a human universe but you would rather humanity was chained to the whims of your 'gods', why is your way better? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099554 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Govern ourselves? I'll be sure to tell that to the 50 worlds I brought screaming and burning into Compliance. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099605 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 What the Emperor gave us is debatable. Mostly, it appears that what the Emperor offered was a human universe, controlled by the Emperor, where humans act as the Emperor bids them. Of course, he says otherwise ("It is not my Imperium. It is the Imperium of Man!") but there's an old saying about actions and words that seems appropriate. And for someone who keeps insisting that He doesn't want worship and adoration he does so love appearing before his subjects as a blazing radiance of raw power so intense that merely looking on Him can blind or kill, instead of, say, the humble traveler who debated the priest of the lightning stone in "The Last Church". And as far as "I do what must be done to save humanity", that is also the justification of Lorgar and the Word Bearers, even back in the Index Astartes days. As an aside, I really, REALLY loved "The Last Church". Everyone should give it a read if you haven't. Its not that long either. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099613 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dantay VI Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 For me it is and always will be the Rout! The 6th Legion. I have always been fascinated with Norse mythlogy which is what first drew me to them in 40K and now into 30K. I am really hoping that when they get their chance, hat FW will really out-do themselves. So far my biggest problem has been that I am not a very good convertor of models and the stuff being put out is so nice I am almost afraid to do anything with them, so my 6th Legion is looking a little "bland" I also really like the Raven Guard and the Alpha Legion.... I imagine them as the Special Forces arm of the Astartes, the real surgical scalpel (well the Raven Guard for sure, maybe the Alpha's are more like the CIA using operatives, information gathering, then using the elite astartes to bring their plans to fruition). I also really like the White Scars, but again like the Rout, it is the influences from the ancient Mongol empire which invokes a very strong imagery for them... I remember a book title called the Wolves of the Plain, which is how the Khans army was described and that kind of stuck with me.. Also the conqueror series of books by Conn Igguldenn. I'd love to put a Scars army in the field, but I doubt I could afford all the shinies The only other Legion I have felt drawn to are the Luna Wolves. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
helterskelter Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 All we are is shadows and dust, shadows and dust Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099655 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So power means worship. That's the outdated system we fight to replace. Yes the Emperor has immense power. That is why he was leads us, why we fight for him. But that power doesn't make him a God. The Emperor was giving us the means to govern ourselves. There was the council of Terra, he raised one of his Sons to warmaster. You traitors name him tyrant but out disgusted when he moved to retire to Terra. He was our warlord, our guiding father, our ceaser but never our God. So Bearer of the Word, the Emperor wanted to create a human universe but you would rather humanity was chained to the whims of your 'gods', why is your way better? The Council of Terra and the Warmaster. A collection of the Emperor's yes-men and toadies, hand picked by the Emperor to wield nigh unlimited power in His name, and the one Primarch the Emperor raised from childhood, also hand picked by the Emperor to wield nigh unlimited power in His name. This is your proof that the Emperor wanted humans to rule themselves. The truth is that what the Emperor wanted was for humanity to eternally lick his boots in gratitude for enslaving them, and as a reward their souls will burn forever in the Hell He says doesn't exist. The Ruinous Powers likewise demand we abase ourselves, but by following the Eightfold Path we will live forever in the Empyrean, not as victims, not as prey...as rulers. As hunters! The choice is between a cruel god governed by drives we can barely fathom who will damn all mankind to eternal torment, and four cruel gods governed by drives we can barely fathom, who would see at least some of mankind spared the flames. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099701 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xin Ceithan Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 So power means worship. That's the outdated system we fight to replace. Yes the Emperor has immense power. That is why he was leads us, why we fight for him. But that power doesn't make him a God. The Emperor was giving us the means to govern ourselves. There was the council of Terra, he raised one of his Sons to warmaster. You traitors name him tyrant but out disgusted when he moved to retire to Terra. He was our warlord, our guiding father, our ceaser but never our God. So Bearer of the Word, the Emperor wanted to create a human universe but you would rather humanity was chained to the whims of your 'gods', why is your way better? (Ok. I'm l' ll bite. I will use this as an exemplary lynchpin) The Word of Lorgar. The True Word. Based on the enlightenment of Aurelian returned from his Pilgrimage. It is not humanity chained to the gods. It is ensuring the survival of mankind. It is not repeating the fall of the base Eldar. It is not enslavement to a tyrant who does not even his vision with his own gene crafted sons. The vision of Lorgar is humanity ascended, United with the warp in blessed symbiosis. Illuminated beings. While the Emperor denies the powers, and dooms humanity to extinction by shackling mankind, unable to prepare and adapt the coming cataclysm. The True Word of Aurelian is not submission. it is Ascendance. At least that is what I take from ADB's "Aurelian". And the part of me that is staunchly VIIIth cannot help growing a smirk into a fanged grin, seeing as the Revelation of Aurelian is coming from a journey led by a Neverborn. Surely no conflict of interest here.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wade Garrett Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 And the part of me that likes the Ultramarines, big blue boy scouts that they are (and I say that sincerely, not as a knock on the XIII. Having a little light in the grimdarkness just makes everything else look more grimdarker in contrast. :) ) would point out that existing for all eternity after having most of your personality scraped away and replaced by the essence of an insane Lovecraftian hell god isn't exactly a step away from the whole "eternal damnation" thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099750 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ah 30k, and your philosophical debates. I love thee so! So many interesting points of view :3 Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099793 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The Emperor has empowered mankind to rule this universe. He turned us from prey, to conquerors. He made this possible, not your gods, but the Emperor. But now you say he is just a tyrant, and we should turn our backs on him because some creatures, whom are bound to the warp, have said they are Gods, and that they are the true rulers of the Galaxy. Your humours must be misaligned because all I see are desperate fools who cling to faith like a child clings to a blanket. Scribe, yes we burnt worlds, yes we slaughtered our own, but we did this for the greater good of mankind. We were created for this, elevated above the rest of humanity to serve as their weapon. We knew from the beginning this would be bloody, yet we did it anyway. If your Gods are better, why have the commanded you to turn on and slaughter your brothers, and burn the empire we were building for the future of mankind? (Hope I'm not going to strong here, I am trying to stay in character. I quite like the Word Bearers tbh, but felt we needed some Imperial input in the discussion, and I've always thought the Raven Guard were quite level headed, and realistic, especially with the little hint that Corax may have been told more about the nature of the universe then his brothers) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099809 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DuskRaider Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well this thread went wicked off topic. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099815 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The Emperor has empowered mankind to rule this universe. He turned us from prey, to conquerors. He made this possible, not your gods, but the Emperor. But now you say he is just a tyrant, and we should turn our backs on him because some creatures, whom are bound to the warp, have said they are Gods, and that they are the true rulers of the Galaxy. Your humours must be misaligned because all I see are desperate fools who cling to faith like a child clings to a blanket. Scribe, yes we burnt worlds, yes we slaughtered our own, but we did this for the greater good of mankind. We were created for this, elevated above the rest of humanity to serve as their weapon. We knew from the beginning this would be bloody, yet we did it anyway. If your Gods are better, why have the commanded you to turn on and slaughter your brothers, and burn the empire we were building for the future of mankind? The Emperor created us, he crafted our flesh, and bound millions into a life of perpetual war. Again, with the comments of faith, of belief. Journey the tides of the warp brother and look. Those are faces you see, those are claws you hear scratching, and that is our fate. This is no longer a matter of faith as it was for the ancients that came before us, looking up at Sol and asking why He chased away the rain. We do not need to have faith, when real, true, and honest power is demonstrable from the Rulers of the Warp. The Greater Good, it rings false to me like the cries of a Xeno. The Gods are 'better' because they promise this pain. They do not shy away from the bloodshed, and they do not claim we do this for the greater good, but for the survival of the species. We are better, because our actions are not based upon the foulest of lies. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099850 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 The Emperor created us, he crafted our flesh, and bound millions into a life of perpetual war. Again, with the comments of faith, of belief. Journey the tides of the warp brother and look. Those are faces you see, those are claws you hear scratching, and that is our fate. This is no longer a matter of faith as it was for the ancients that came before us, looking up at Sol and asking why He chased away the rain. We do not need to have faith, when real, true, and honest power is demonstrable from the Rulers of the Warp. The Greater Good, it rings false to me like the cries of a Xeno. The Gods are 'better' because they promise this pain. They do not shy away from the bloodshed, and they do not claim we do this for the greater good, but for the survival of the species. We are better, because our actions are not based upon the foulest of lies. The warp is not heaven or hell, it is another reality, that we use to facilitate our journey across the stars. What you see there are not the souls of humans, but echoes of emotion, twisted by those you call gods. They promise you pain because that's all they can give. They promise the perpetual war, because Gods are never satisfied, they always demand another sacrifice. But the Emperor has promised us freedom. Freedom from creed, from tyranny, from the monsters that want see us as cattle. The Emperor never said this would be a painless journey, He never said we wouldn't have to do horrible things, but everything He has set us out to do is for the good of mankind, it is for our survival. And if we fail, then we have failed on our own, and not as slaves to your false gods. To surrive in this universe you have to be strong, and you have to take your fate into your hands, by sword and bolter. But this is obviously to hard for you so you turn to these deceiving warp Xenos who promise you power in servitude, your path is the easy path, bonded to beings who make you puppet rulers. I say this brother, pray to your gods, consort with you daemons, but I will stand against you, with faith, yes faith, faith in my true brothers, my weapons, and my strength to resist you and your cursed allies, and faith that humanity needs no Gods to secure our Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099890 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 To me, all "gods" that we think of, are not really god. They want our worship, and if refuse, they punish us eternally. I refuse to kneel to that kind of "god" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099900 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well this thread went wicked off topic. Long ago, in the dusty tracks of time, there was once a thread like this, made specifically for debate between brothers of the varied Legions. It died when lines were crossed. Though this is fun, I know the road this is upon, and there is no light at the end of this path. Let's return to the OP, and as mentioned before, i would welcome a PM debate. :) =][= Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099910 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted June 23, 2015 Author Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well this thread went wicked off topic. Long ago, in the dusty tracks of time, there was once a thread like this, made specifically for debate between brothers of the varied Legions. It died when lines were crossed. Though this is fun, I know the road this is upon, and there is no light at the end of this path. Let's return to the OP, and as mentioned before, i would welcome a PM debate. =][= I am ok if people wish to discuss gods here Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099927 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Ok so this little diversion has really made me me think and look at the XIXth again with a renewed passion. I think what I like about all the Shattered Legions is the fact they are in full war mode. While we have seen some of the loyalists fall back to regroup, or be torn in their loyalties the Shattered are fighting their shaddow war. They could be forgiven to disappear after Istvaan V but they have not (well Corax did but I'm ignoring that) but instead they kept fighting, selling their lives to buy Terra one more day. So XIX led Shattered Legions for me. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099963 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm still waiting to see someone do a pure Raven Guard Headhunter style company as a post-istvaan retribution force as well. Black tantos with a thin ribbon of razor sharp adamantium at it's edge, silenced pistols and bolters, heavy optics, camoliene hearldry, etc. All damaged and pieced back together, still hunting down Horus's Lieutenants and targeting XX Legion cells for door kicking and eliminations. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099970 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Well I may not compleatly fulfill that dream but I think I may come close. I still have some of the stuff you gave me years ago, with the skin walkers, altough I'm not 100 percent on how to implement that model wise. I will say this, my Raven Guard died on Istvaan V all that is left are shadows and vengeance. Retribution at all costs the embodiment of Victory ot Death. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099985 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 My PM door is always open, if you'd like to bounce some ideas off me. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyrannicide Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm still waiting to see someone do a pure Raven Guard Headhunter style company as a post-istvaan retribution force as well. Black tantos with a thin ribbon of razor sharp adamantium at it's edge, silenced pistols and bolters, heavy optics, camoliene hearldry, etc. All damaged and pieced back together, still hunting down Horus's Lieutenants and targeting XX Legion cells for door kicking and eliminations. STAHP. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099988 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 My PM door is always open, if you'd like to bounce some ideas off me. :) Cheers, in that happy stage of notes and concept models. Got a few ideas based off the Wild Hunts of Germanic mythoology as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099993 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hyaenidae Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm still waiting to see someone do a pure Raven Guard Headhunter style company as a post-istvaan retribution force as well. Black tantos with a thin ribbon of razor sharp adamantium at it's edge, silenced pistols and bolters, heavy optics, camoliene hearldry, etc. All damaged and pieced back together, still hunting down Horus's Lieutenants and targeting XX Legion cells for door kicking and eliminations. STAHP. http://ct.fra.bz/ol/fz/sw/i58/2/12/5/frabz-No-d79fae.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4099998 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scribe Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 Thats what my Raven Guard where going to be...an actual proper shattered legion, bitter, merciless, and broken from Istvaan. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4100031 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Golem Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 I'm still waiting to see someone do a pure Raven Guard Headhunter style company as a post-istvaan retribution force as well. Black tantos with a thin ribbon of razor sharp adamantium at it's edge, silenced pistols and bolters, heavy optics, camoliene hearldry, etc. All damaged and pieced back together, still hunting down Horus's Lieutenants and targeting XX Legion cells for door kicking and eliminations. You certainly don't help me sticking to legions haha. Seriously every little bit off fluff/force idea you write seems to be gold. I have a list in my notes of legions I would possibly do and it's literally 17 out of the 18 legions, with the 18th not having been touched by Forge World yet which means there's every possibility my mind will be changed. It's ridiculous. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309608-your-legion/page/8/#findComment-4100033 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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