The Unforgiven brief review (HUGE SPOILERS, no tags used)

[Tanyr]

It was stated in the novel that they have no idea who Cypher actually is. Even Cypher stated that it's a title, not a name, so it's still possible for it to be Zahariel.

 

Another tidbit i enjoyed was that the numbers of the Fallen were stated to have over 30,000 marines. Granted, it came from Cypher, so must therefore be taken with an enormous grain of salt, but it still gives us a general idea.

 

Some points of the story that I especially enjoyed were:

 

-Azrael. There really is no central character in the story, being told from the perspectives of multiple individuals, but if i had to pick one favorite, It would be him. Most space marine novels are written from the perspective of unknown protagonists created for that story, so seeing him gain additional depth ( as sapphon, and asmodeus did in the previous novel ) was worthwhile. 

 

-The discussions that went into the abandonment of a campaign in progress in order to pursue the fallen. In the past, heretics have commented that the DA drop what they're doing and run off at the merest whiff of a Fallen, which is proven false. They discuss the merits and drawbacks that their withdrawal would entail, and decide accordingly. 

 

-Loyalty and obedience. Annael's time as a penitent, as he struggled to find out exactly what he must do to repent for his failure. That he was successful in his self appointed mission was completely irrelevant. The Inner Circle demands obedience and loyalty, and that expectation continues on up the chain. 

 

-Telemenus as a dreadnought. Just as he did in Master of Sanctity for TDA, Telemenus gives a bit of information on what a person being interred in a dreadnought goes through. Not just the on and off switch, or combat capabilities, but the inherent respect that such a position grants. This wasn't the first time i read about a characters internment, but it did expand on what i previously knew.

 

One small issue i had were the codewords that the DA chaplains use to ensure secrecy and compliance. With a short sentence, Asmodeus incapacitates Belial. That I don't have a problem with. That he said it when he was standing five feet away from CYPHER of all people....Great, thats really someone you want to give the shutdown command to the Grand Master of the Deathwing to...gg Asmodeus. No wonder we can't keep him locked up.

 

As with the previous novels, I was satisfied after finishing, but the previous poster's nailed it on the head when they said it wasn't a conclusion. Nothing is really answered, the fundamental underpinnings of our chapter's origin is cast into even greater doubt, and the final battle all happens within a few pages, and enough space magic to drown in. 

[HaSY]

30,000 Fallen had been mentioned in the HH audio Master of the First.

 

At least we know Dark Angels have 11 successors.

[Tanyr]

Sadly, while i'm up to date on the novels, I've yet to listen to any of the HH audio's. There's just something about audio books that fail to draw me in.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

I haven't read the Novel, but I am not phased by spoilers, so I'll comment.

 

It appears that Telemenus is just a cool factor added in so we can see how a marine goes from PA to TDA to Dreadnought. He doesn't play a major role and seriously, with his attitude I'm surprised he even got picked for dreadnought duty. Besides being  a skilled marksman in PA he was a less than average Terminator so it is quite odd to me that he got an honour that only Chapter heroes should have.

 

More comments once I get the book and read it.

[HaSY]

He does play a good role in the battle in the third book.

[Jazzhands]

Let's not forget that the warp storm (caused by modern da) broke caliban as well as scattering the fallen.

 

I liked it

[HaSY]

That's actually grimdark actually.

 

Love how DA and UM are decisive to force Horus's hand.

[hopkins]

When you finish a book, and come out of it confused and have a whole list of questions

Yeah, that's where I am right now

[MinamotoKansuke]

After Cypher runs away from the fight with Ouroboros, Annael says something like "The heart is not here!".

To me it sounded like Cypher stole it and then ran away to 30k Caliban.

Would that even be possible? Because if he didn't the whole debacle with him going to fight the serpent wouldn't have much sense except giving him a chance to run away.

To me it seems like he took something (maybe not the heart) and then ran away. Why is the question.

[Guest]

One thing that gets me... Asmodai had the "kill switch" for Belial fair enough I will accept that... He said it in front of Cypher again I will let that pass... Does he have a "Kill Switch" for Azrael? I like Interrogator Chaplains and all that but this places far too much power in their corner they can switch marines off and on so easy. 

[Augustus]

That's actually grimdark actually.

 

Love how DA and UM are decisive to force Horus's hand.

 

It was suppose to  be them and the Space Wolves...not the Ultratheoreticals.

 

Having finished it I wasn't surprised. A lot of stuff doesn't happen.* 

 

Initial thoughts if and before a review.

 

Cool things

You get 3? New named successors and a confirmed total of 11 2nd founding chapters. Pretty good addition to the fluff.

Consecrators fleshed out a little bit.

The Emperor talking to Telemenus(sp)

The Repentients.

Azrael going toe-toe with Typhon. Taking the fight to him.

Descriptions of the Rock

 

The bad

Astelan escaped.

Astelan not dead.

Astealn staying not dead.

Astelan still being not captured and or not dead.

Cypher Killing another Fallen. (Fool me once..)

Unforgiven led by committee.

The whole Hidden Masters thing.

Tulchulcha(sp)

The Rock not having fired its weapons "in anger" in 10k years? (need to confirm which of its guns)

He takes "The next man up" a little to quickly. Seriously its like that Starship Troopers movie from 15 years ago or so.

 

Ill try to get a better review up. But those are what stood out to me. A lot of my criticisms are probably based on my personal tastes.

 

 

 

 

[Allart01]

Yup, I'm bothered too by Astelan.

If this is the last book of the series, what is the reason for having him survive with an unconvincing deus ex machina trick that was not even explained, and then he does not even make a single appearence in the whole novel anymore? Duh. 

[JustShowMePictures]

A very poorly written novel, in my humble opinion. As a whole, the novel felt rushed to me with the opportunity for what should have been epic battles - such as the invasion of the Rock - reduced to a few short non-consequential chapters. To be fair, this could be because if he took the time to develop the plot on the page - a plot to time travel to steal a legion of fallen to bring back to future and ally with Nurgle's finest gets thwarted by 40k DA destroying Caliban - it would have appeared even more awful.

 

None of the major players showed the intelligence or experience of veteran commanders of the Chapter and much of their dialogue took the form of mindless cliched soundbites. Worse of all, Thorpe squandered an opportunity to flesh out Cypher and develop him as a character instead of a Saturday morning cartoon villain trope. He may as well have been Carmen San Diego. Other authors have really breathed new life and given interesting perspectives on classic 40k characters but that seems beyond Mr Thorpe.

 

I hope he has nothing more to do with the legion's fluff, certainly in the Horus Heresy.

Clap clap clap. There, have your "smart fan" points.

[Prodigalson]

I really enjoyed the book, but ended up with more questions then answers.

 

Loved that we had 11 successors (does this mean that there were only 11K DA left after the HH? Or were there some that were not present for what happened afterwards).

 

Also, it will be interesting to see what happens when Corswain gets back to Caliban in the 30K timeline.

 

I can honestly say that I have NO idea what quite happened with Cypher at the end of the book, and he is just as unknowable as before. You do get the feeling that he played everyone against each other to do... something, but I have no idea what. Did he just go back in time with a Thunderhawk to 30K? Do we have to wait until the books catch up to the Fall to find out golly gee?

 

I loved the fight between the Deathwing and the Grave Wardens. I had to stop reading for a second and realize how awesome that was. A full company of Deathwing against a full company of Deathguard Grave Wardens, that must have been ugly.

 

 

[Lostrael]

Speaking of manipulations. What do you think of the Watchers?

They released Lord Cyphers shackles. 

They guided Lord Azrael and Lord Cypher to the chamber of Tuchulcha. 

They sealed the chamber when the deed was done.

...

I don't think this Cypher is the same Lord Cypher as from 30k, because Luther said something like 'My Lord Cypher. He is dead. Slain by the hand of the Houndlord who bore my master's blade'.

Who else knew of the Ouroboros and Calibans tainted core?

 

Just speculation.

I think the heart of Ouroboros is on Caliban and Cypher had to get there.

 

So I think we may see another book perhaps in 30k.

 

I like the book. 

 

To get an answer to everything is not very Dark Angel like. There must be a layer of secrets.

[Sagan]

Just finished reading the book and was not very impressed with the book. Wish we could get new Authors to write Dark Angel novels. 

[ninja6fett]

After Cypher runs away from the fight with Ouroboros, Annael says something like "The heart is not here!".

To me it sounded like Cypher stole it and then ran away to 30k Caliban.

Would that even be possible? Because if he didn't the whole debacle with him going to fight the serpent wouldn't have much sense except giving him a chance to run away.

To me it seems like he took something (maybe not the heart) and then ran away. Why is the question.

 

Actually earlier Cypher said "The heart is not here." I think he took the thunderhawk to go after the heart.

 

Traitor, loyalist, whatever. Cypher works to preserve the chapter, he plays a very long game. He doesn't know everything, but he knows a lot. He's not infallible. He has some duties that he cannot sway from, which is why all his oaths are pointless.

[MinamotoKansuke]

 

After Cypher runs away from the fight with Ouroboros, Annael says something like "The heart is not here!".

To me it sounded like Cypher stole it and then ran away to 30k Caliban.

Would that even be possible? Because if he didn't the whole debacle with him going to fight the serpent wouldn't have much sense except giving him a chance to run away.

To me it seems like he took something (maybe not the heart) and then ran away. Why is the question.

 

Actually earlier Cypher said "The heart is not here." I think he took the thunderhawk to go after the heart.

 

Traitor, loyalist, whatever. Cypher works to preserve the chapter, he plays a very long game. He doesn't know everything, but he knows a lot. He's not infallible. He has some duties that he cannot sway from, which is why all his oaths are pointless.

 

 

There is even a line where Azrael says "Should I just trust you then?" to which Cypher replies "No! Never trust anything I say!" ;) Liked that.

[Guest]

Still think Gav needs locked up in cell 42 :)

[Sagan]

Cell 42. Ya I would agree but put Khârn in there with him.

[HaSY]

Cypher is a massive troll. Make Typhus screamed No in a Saturday morning cartoon haha... Azrael and Ezekiel cant comprehend their predecessors' brilliant contingency plans/conspiracy.

 

Grand MASTA Haradin from By Lion's command in Imperial Truth HH anthology reformed Deathwing and Ravenwing.

 

Corswain - Houndlord, that moniker was first heard in Holder of Keys which a Fallen mockingly called him and suggested he died. I am sure he killed Knight of Lupus Cypher. Damn Zahariel, your destiny should not be Epimetheus... This Cypher in Unforgiven appeared to be of 30k.

 

Angels of Caliban by Gav Thorpe will shed light to teases found in Unforgiven.

 

Lion Sable gone which makes eleven to be ten instead.

 

Repentant Brotherhood is a cool addition.

 

The Rock have not fired in anger, probably in reference to point defence turrents, prolly to emphasize the enemy had not been than that close before.

 

UM plus DA broke out and force Horus's hand. BA must have other means to appear at Terra as Tulchulcha was not given to BA. Even Guilliman merely speculated the device..

 

Corswain and Belath made their way to Caliban to collect their long forgotten bros.. I am sure that wont end so easy.

 

The remainder of DA under Haradin is to hunt Typhon ( Unforgiven suggest that Luther had dealt with him before), bring word to Wolf King (they saved him and his fleet from Alpha Legion), in other words, DA fleet got scattered again.

 

Corswain, the Hound Lord, Seneschal of the Lion. Wow...Cypher, I once known someone with that blade, another suggestion that Cypher was in 30k, but not of the one killed by Corswain as per Luther.

[Augustus]

Actually Corswain sent Belath to return to Caliban. He continued to look for the Wolf-King. 

[Corswain]

Cypher is a massive troll. Make Typhus screamed No in a Saturday morning cartoon haha... Azrael and Ezekiel cant comprehend their predecessors' brilliant contingency plans/conspiracy.

Grand MASTA Haradin from By Lion's command in Imperial Truth HH anthology reformed Deathwing and Ravenwing.

Corswain - Houndlord, that moniker was first heard in Holder of Keys which a Fallen mockingly called him and suggested he died. I am sure he killed Knight of Lupus Cypher. Damn Zahariel, your destiny should not be Epimetheus... This Cypher in Unforgiven appeared to be of 30k.

Angels of Caliban by Gav Thorpe will shed light to teases found in Unforgiven.

Lion Sable gone which makes eleven to be ten instead.

Repentant Brotherhood is a cool addition.

The Rock have not fired in anger, probably in reference to point defence turrents, prolly to emphasize the enemy had not been than that close before.

UM plus DA broke out and force Horus's hand. BA must have other means to appear at Terra as Tulchulcha was not given to BA. Even Guilliman merely speculated the device..

Corswain and Belath made their way to Caliban to collect their long forgotten bros.. I am sure that wont end so easy.

The remainder of DA under Haradin is to hunt Typhon ( Unforgiven suggest that Luther had dealt with him before), bring word to Wolf King (they saved him and his fleet from Alpha Legion), in other words, DA fleet got scattered again.

Corswain, the Hound Lord, Seneschal of the Lion. Wow...Cypher, I once known someone with that blade, another suggestion that Cypher was in 30k, but not of the one killed by Corswain as per Luther.

I don't think Zahariel is Epimethius anymore. After reading Fallen Angels again (I'm a sucker for punishment), Zahariel is way too far gone to be Grey Knight material. I think Epimethius is Israfael who was still alive at the end of the book or another to be revealed librarian.

I really liked the nods to 30k eg the sword of Corswain, this is why I think (hope) Thorpes next heresy novel answers some of the questions this left me with.

[HaSY]

I am of the few that keep believing Zahariel is Cypher. So much foreshadowing in Descent and Fallen to meet that fate in Pandorax? Where is Chief Librarian Elikas actually?

 

Corswain's blade in Holder kicks ass mate

[Guest]

Finally read it

I haven't read the Novel, but I am not phased by spoilers, so I'll comment.

It appears that Telemenus is just a cool factor added in so we can see how a marine goes from PA to TDA to Dreadnought. He doesn't play a major role and seriously, with his attitude I'm surprised he even got picked for dreadnought duty. Besides being a skilled marksman in PA he was a less than average Terminator so it is quite odd to me that he got an honour that only Chapter heroes should have.

More comments once I get the book and read it.

As a reader we seen him as you say be a good marine (Marksman Honours seems like this isnt handed out on as whim), Average Terminator (Never to be a Knight I just could not see it). But as a Dreadnought? He found his calling, yes we know he was very unsure of himself and you know seeing this in a Space Marine I thought it was a good thing. His constant belief we was just no good enough, but the Chapters Faith in him as a Dreadnought I thought was great and in the battle he became the "Marine" he always wanted to be.

I could however be totally wrong but I did like him

Cool things
You get 3? New named successors and a confirmed total of 11 2nd founding chapters. Pretty good addition to the fluff.
Consecrators fleshed out a little bit.

The Emperor talking to Telemenus(sp)

The Repentients.

Azrael going toe-toe with Typhon. Taking the fight to him.

Descriptions of the Rock

The bad

Astelan escaped.

Astelan not dead.

Astealn staying not dead.

Astelan still being not captured and or not dead.

Cypher Killing another Fallen. (Fool me once..)

Unforgiven led by committee.

The whole Hidden Masters thing.

Tulchulcha(sp)

The Rock not having fired its weapons "in anger" in 10k years? (need to confirm which of its guns)

Cool Things

Yeah the extra Successors kind of confirmed what we all really knew there was more than 4k Dark Angels left Deep down none of us believe there was only 4. GW didnt need to create 11 back then so their addition now with all the new stuff of the Heresy is welcome.

The Consecrators were great and I love the fact Nakir has a Heavenfall Blade (Another named one to the list)

Is it the Emperor or his true self giving him the belief that he is a Dark Angel first and foremost and worthy of the faith others showed in him?

Azrael again I liked how he was, you knew the weight of knowledge is a heavy burden and he does not like abandoning battles for the sake of it like Belial and Sammael too. However the Chaplains, Sapphon and Asmodai are very single minded.

I also liked Ezekiel, for so much time he has been overshadowed by Mephiston, Tigurius and Njal. It was nice to see more of him and he is a psyker of considerable power in my eyes.

Yeah the Rock details were cool you cant imagine the scope of its size till the battles and think damn man this place is huge. To quote Star Wars - "Thats no moon"

The Bad

Astelan - Yeah his Houdini acts cheapen Cyphers tenacity in my eyes, I expect Cypher to be the sneaky one Astelan needed to die.

Cypher - Well if the Fallen was gonig to give away his plan his death can be accepted if the plan to destroy Caliban failed and it gave the Traitors the win then you can see why Cypher did it. So this I can accept

Hidden Masters/Committee

See I think we have always known the DA still function as a Legion this just kind of confirms it so again I am OK with it.

I think the Rocks weapons fired in anger is more a reference to the fact it has never been attacked and the weapons only get to destroy the odd asteroid. The Rock is probably one of the most defended bases in the Imperium, the amount of Successor Chapters that will have ships nearby or with it always makes most attacks suicide.

Speaking of manipulations. What do you think of the Watchers?

They released Lord Cyphers shackles.

They guided Lord Azrael and Lord Cypher to the chamber of Tuchulcha.

They sealed the chamber when the deed was done.

...

I don't think this Cypher is the same Lord Cypher as from 30k, because Luther said something like 'My Lord Cypher. He is dead. Slain by the hand of the Houndlord who bore my master's blade'.

Who else knew of the Ouroboros and Calibans tainted core?

Just speculation.

I think the heart of Ouroboros is on Caliban and Cypher had to get there.

So I think we may see another book perhaps in 30k.

I like the book.

To get an answer to everything is not very Dark Angel like. There must be a layer of secrets.

The watchers do what they must And I would guess Azrael knows they have Chapters best interest at heart even if the Dark Angels don't know .

It was always speculated that Caliban was corrupted at the core, so it would be a good assumption to assume that Ouroboros is the Core? It might explain why Cypher needed to go back to 30k, as the destruction of Caliban destroyed said core?