Demus Ragnok Posted June 23, 2015 Share Posted June 23, 2015 (edited) http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/281590-a-thought-experiment-primarchs-part-i/This is based on the thread above. These are the core ideas I have and would like to see what the frater think.The legion colors are red and steel. Specifically brighter red like the sky at dawn or dusk.Legion heraldry is flames on an brazier.Fire Keeper Tribes vary wildly in size and composition. Companies are 100 men strong and specialize, like 199th Breacher Company or 77th Veteran Company and so on.Some sample Tribe heraldryEsus - two bearded axes crossed on a black fieldMogon- a mountain crowned with starsNerius- a scepter clutched in a sea serpent's coilsOther Tribes includeRudianosSmertriusGrannusLeucetiosIntarabusVindonnusBarinthusDispaterAnkouThe Primarch Niklaas is a large and physically imposing figure. His black hair is clipped short and he wears a heavy beard. His eyes are dark like the sky just before a storm. Niklaas is most often seen wearing terminator plate and carries a unique thunderhammer in battle. Niklaas appears taciturn and morose to those that are not close to him. In the company of those he considers close Niklaas has a dry since of humor. The Primarch has a deep insight into human behavior but isn't always certain of how to interact with others. He values honesty above all even when others consider it blunt or even cruel. Niklaas is a craftsman with a natural intuition of the mechanical. He is known for forging armor and weapons of stunning quality and power. His works include "Corinthian" pattern terminator armor and the monstrous ordinatus weapons used by his legion's siege engineers. As well as many gifts given to his siblings and the officers of his legion. Flagship: Treads Upon the Night(Glorianna Class Battleship) and/or Sojourner (a unique strike cruiser) Legion organization: The Fire Keepers are divided into 12 "Tribes" of varying size from nearly 19000 to just over 8000. The Tribes are overseen by commanders with the title of "Chief Captain" and are subdivided into 100 man companies led by Captains. Total legion size is roughly 150,000 astartes. Most of the legion serves with the primarch's own 77th Expedition, with two exceptions. Tribe Esus and Tribe Mogon, about 18000 astartes total, are attached to the 1445th Expedition. Chief Captain Jehu of Tribe Nerius commands the 333rd Expeditionary Fleet from the Battle Barge Perditio Rex, his primarch's former flagship. Tribe Nerius' compliment is roughly 13000 astartes and is accompanied by regiments of the Imperial Army and a force of a Titans. Edited November 28, 2017 by Lord Thørn Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted August 9, 2015 Author Share Posted August 9, 2015 Alright with that blast of info in the first post I'll try to give a more organized write up in this second post. This is the first section, more will follow. Xth Legion The Fire Keepers Home world: Obsailes. Obsailes experiences a diurnal cycle much longer than that of Terra. In addition to having a longer regular “daily” cycle Obsailes also has a pronounced seasonal cycle of light with a “Long Night” of total blackout lasting 90 to 120 Terran days each year. Most human population is concentrated on the north continent within the temperate region. The continent is dominated by forests and mountains. Prior to the primarch’s arrival most settlements were walled city states with a tech level that included gun powder and steam powered machines. Coal was considered the most precious commodity. Leaving the protection of city walls after nightfall was an act of desperation or madness as the forests of Obsailes were home to all manner of fearsome beasts, both natural and malevolent. Some beasts were great enough to break down the strongest of walls, with hides that no projectile could pierce. Others moved as shadows, caring not whether walls or watch fires stood, murdering and torturing where ever they pleased. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4142001 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 (edited) Some rules for legion specific stuff. The Triakonta, The Thirty, the elite of the Fire Keepers Legion. Selected by the primarch himself as his personal body guard the Triakonta receive the best of arms and armor. Whether fighting at Niklaas' side, with one of the primarch's favored commanders, or in a rearguard action the Triakonta are always found where their skill and strength will have the greatest impact. Triakonta Terminators are an HQ selection for LA: Fire Keepers army when Niklaas is taken. A Triakonta squad may also be taken in place of a legion command squad. Triakonta Terminators 185pts Triakonta Terminator WS:5 BS:4 S:4 T:5 W:2 I:4 A:2 Ld:9 Sv:2+ 4++ Unit Type Infantry Unit Composition: 3 Triakonta Terminators Wargear: Corinthian Pattern Terminator Armor Gibborim Pattern Power Axe Grenade Harness Special Rules: Legion Astartes (Fire Keepers) Fearless Furious Charge Monster Hunter Corinthian Pattern Terminator Armor Designed and built by the primarch of the Fire Keepers Corinthian Pattern Terminator Armor offers the Triakonta a level of protection that is unsurpassed by any other Astartes armor pattern. Corinthian Pattern Terminator Armor confers a 2+armor save, a 4+ Invulnerable save, as well as + 1 toughness. All failed armor saves must be rerolled. Corinthian Pattern Terminator Armor also has the Bulky and Relentless special rules and may not make Sweeping Advances. Gibborim Pattern Power Axe Modeled after the weapons used by the beast hunters on the legion’s home world Gibborim Pattern Power Axes are formidable weapons. Range: - S:X2 AP:2 Melee, Two Handed, Unwieldy, Sunder, Murderous Strike May take a Legion Banner for 20 pts. May take up to two additional Triakonta Terminators at 55 pts per model. May take a LandRaider as a dedicated transport. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Dropped raider squad. ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Magganon BS: 4 FA:14 SA:13 RA:12 HP:12 Superheavy Tank Range Strength AP Type 24”-360” 10 1 Ordnance, Barrage 1, Massive Blast(7”), Armorbane Concussive, Strike down, Seismic Shock,Super massive Round Seismic Shock: Units which suffer wounds or hull points lost from this attack may only move at half their normal maximum movement, may not Run,Charge or go Flat Out, and count as being in dangerous terrain on their next turn. Super-Massive Round: A Unit/ Model/Vehicle firing a weapon with this rule may only do so if it has not moved that turn or the turn prior regardless of allowances granted by other rules/unit types such as Super-Heavy. Wargear: Magganon Super Heavy Seige Cannon, hull mounted twin linked heavy bolter Edited February 25, 2016 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4143768 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 I like them very much! Only real thing I can see needing change is the Charnabal Greatsword. Make it at least +2S Since they're still Monster Hunters so the Champion being worse at killing them doesnt make much sense :p And, its a Giant Sword. I'd also at least consider giving them some for of Ranged Weapon? Maybe have the Cyclone Missile Launcher be equipped with Rad Missiles? Also, what does the Brazier of Flame do? :p Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4143966 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grifftofer Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 My suggestion is to not be to complicated with the terminator armour's special rules. Mainly as it will change how the game works in relation to this unit. Specifically their save is technically a 3+, does that mean that AP3 punches through or not? A possibility for giving it that extra tough feel is to give them the Hardened armour special rule that breachers have. It would make them even more impervious to blasts and templates. I would also respectfully suggest that the champion be WS5 like the rest of the squad as only Praetors, Champion Consuls and named-characters have reached those heights until this point. Other than that it's just a matter of points cost, which I hope will be high :P As I'd hate to face off against them with less than a full squad of terminators. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4143986 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 I like them very much! Only real thing I can see needing change is the Charnabal Greatsword. Make it at least +2S Since they're still Monster Hunters so the Champion being worse at killing them doesnt make much sense :p And, its a Giant Sword. I'd also at least consider giving them some for of Ranged Weapon? Maybe have the Cyclone Missile Launcher be equipped with Rad Missiles? Also, what does the Brazier of Flame do? :p I was trying to exercise some restraint with the Greatsword but your logic is irrefutable. :) I've struggled with a ranged weapon for these guys. I wanted to give them something but couldn't see them with combibolters and I wanted to avoid the wrist mount. I had thought about Maxim bolters but I can't decide. Alternate warheads for the CML is interesting. The Brazer of Flame is a counts as Legion Banner. My suggestion is to not be to complicated with the terminator armour's special rules. Mainly as it will change how the game works in relation to this unit. Specifically their save is technically a 3+, does that mean that AP3 punches through or not? A possibility for giving it that extra tough feel is to give them the Hardened armour special rule that breachers have. It would make them even more impervious to blasts and templates. I would also respectfully suggest that the champion be WS5 like the rest of the squad as only Praetors, Champion Consuls and named-characters have reached those heights until this point. Other than that it's just a matter of points cost, which I hope will be high :P As I'd hate to face off against them with less than a full squad of terminators. Hardened Armor is a great idea. I really didn't want to go with an odd mechanic for the save but couldn't think of anything I liked. The Triakonta Champion is supposed to be equal to a legion champion. There are only thirty Triakonta in the entire legion so their champion is the best of the best of the best. Yeah they are going to be high points being the elite of elites. Thanks guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4144022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 You could go with Wrist-Mounted Mechanicum Radiation Cleansers (Cant think of the name right now). That might be a good alternative? but, you'd have to weaken them a bit since 5+ Rad Cleansers could be a bit much... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4144023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted August 11, 2015 Author Share Posted August 11, 2015 You could go with Wrist-Mounted Mechanicum Radiation Cleansers (Cant think of the name right now). That might be a good alternative? but, you'd have to weaken them a bit since 5+ Rad Cleansers could be a bit much... Hmm very interesting. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4144028 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Why not give them all Grenade Harnesses? Woukd give them frag grenades when they charged after shooting, or a storm of 2 S3 Blasts. With the Corinthian pattern, could just say 'May reroll failed Armour Saves'. That is incredibly powerful in CC but shooting is a bit of a wash; you'll be bombed with ap2 or better blasts either way. However because that unit isn't attacking at Initiative, I think that outweighs. Combined with 'only' a 5++, it is not a massive bulwark other than against units which would struggle in the first place. That does depemd on what other legion rules are available for them however. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4144517 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted August 26, 2015 Author Share Posted August 26, 2015 Alright edited version of Triakonta is up. Decided to split the champion of into character. Next up. Trench raiders. And a fleet admiral. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4156347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 1, 2015 Author Share Posted September 1, 2015 (edited) New rules in post #3. Edited September 1, 2015 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4160578 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 1, 2015 Share Posted September 1, 2015 I really like the raider squad. The flechette rounds feel like a proper 30k update to shotguns Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4160600 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesh Kadesh Posted September 3, 2015 Share Posted September 3, 2015 That raider squad is hella powerful for its points. Shred Assault 2 Weaponry on a Stealth, Shroud, Move Through Cover Infiltrating Acute Sense Scouts, especially with S5 Rending Melee as well. When marines are as easy to kill as they are in 30k, saying they are fragile amd short ranged is not really a counter point. I had originally suggested the Grenafe harness as an alternative weapon, given the nature of the Triakontas 2H weapons and your desire to avoid the wrist mount trope. Looking at naihab, I think he too is a bit tough for his points; 3 T5 2+/3++ wpunds with a rerolled armour save wounds, and an at initiative S7 AP2 Murderous Strike weapon that can get to s8 on the charge... AND gets Scouts on top of that (combined with how tough the Triakonta are). For 200pts, he is better than all, with the exception of Sigismund, and a very lucky set of Rends from Sevatar. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4162886 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 3, 2015 Author Share Posted September 3, 2015 That raider squad is hella powerful for its points. Shred Assault 2 Weaponry on a Stealth, Shroud, Move Through Cover Infiltrating Acute Sense Scouts, especially with S5 Rending Melee as well. When marines are as easy to kill as they are in 30k, saying they are fragile amd short ranged is not really a counter point. I had originally suggested the Grenafe harness as an alternative weapon, given the nature of the Triakontas 2H weapons and your desire to avoid the wrist mount trope. Looking at naihab, I think he too is a bit tough for his points; 3 T5 2+/3++ wpunds with a rerolled armour save wounds, and an at initiative S7 AP2 Murderous Strike weapon that can get to s8 on the charge... AND gets Scouts on top of that (combined with how tough the Triakonta are). For 200pts, he is better than all, with the exception of Sigismund, and a very lucky set of Rends from Sevatar. Yeah I'm still trying to get a good grip on points levels. 125 may have been from the first draft of the raiders. Naihab is really tough yeah he needs an increase too. Thanks for looking. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4162902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 15, 2015 Author Share Posted September 15, 2015 Rules in post 3 for the Mighty Magganon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4171844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Praefectus Invictus Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 How does armourbane work with D weapons? I think something like machine destroyer (re-roll 1s on the D chart) would be more appropriate and work smoother rules wise. Otherwise I like it. I'm assuming it is a superheavy artillery tank similar to the Ordinatus? A massive cannon mounted on two tracks springs to mind . Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4184344 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Captain Redd Posted September 30, 2015 Share Posted September 30, 2015 Demus, isn't the Magganon based on the Fellblade chassis? And I thought there were going to be secondary weapons? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4184808 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted September 30, 2015 Author Share Posted September 30, 2015 Yeah it's on a fellblade chassis. I haven't finished all it's rules. I can't make my brain happy with what I come up with. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4184846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Alright I've edited the units in the third post. Did away with one and I'm adding this chap. Tell me what you think High Chaplain Hezekiah 190 points WS:5 BS:5 S:4 T:4 W:3 I:5 A:3 Ld 10 Sv 2+ Wargear Artificer Armor Refractor Field Master Crafted Volkite Serpenta Frag & Krak grenades Phosphex Bomb Rod of Iron Special Rules Legion Astartes (Fire Keepers) Independent Character Preferred Enemy Living Icon Zealot Warlord Rod of Iron Range:- S:+3 AP:3 Melee, Concussive, Instant Death(psykers/daemons) Living Icon Friendly units with the LA:FK rule within six inches of Hezekiah gain Zealot. Warlord Hezekiah always has the following Warlord Trait. Inspiring Presence Edited February 25, 2016 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4195107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 12, 2015 Share Posted October 12, 2015 Just so you know, Smash confers Ap2 Passively with the S10 hit being the Active Portion. Meaning his power maul is essentially S+2 Ap2. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4195122 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 12, 2015 Author Share Posted October 12, 2015 (edited) Just so you know, Smash confers Ap2 Passively with the S10 hit being the Active Portion. Meaning his power maul is essentially S+2 Ap2. I read that rule and somehow did not come that conclusion. I can't Monday its brain. That needs a change. Changed it to straight up AP 3 and +3 strength. Edited October 12, 2015 by Demus Ragnok Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4195124 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 16, 2015 Author Share Posted October 16, 2015 (edited) Cleaning up thread. Edited February 25, 2016 by Demus Ragnok MikhalLeNoir 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4198868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 While there is nothing inherently wrong with the unit, the way they interact with their rules make them very much a Shooting > Assault unit. In that vein, how about giving them a Fixed Power Weapon like, say, Swords or Mauls instead of Fists with the option to upgrade to Power Fist so that you can lower the cost of the Squad and PPM while giving a Squad Full Power Fists brings them back up to the points cost you have now? That way you have a bit More Flexibility in Potential Application: "Cheapish" without upgrading to Fists and the ability to swing at initiative vs "Expensive" with S8 Ap2 Unwieldy CC Just Something to Consider. Also, why would a Squad Sergeant ever want to Swap out his assault cannon to a Combi-Weapon even if its for free? In this area I'd personally go back to the drawing board and give it a bit more Thought to give the unit a bit more of a uniqueness to them (not that they aren't already). Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4199072 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demus Ragnok Posted October 17, 2015 Author Share Posted October 17, 2015 Darn you and your valid points Slips! I shall revisit these guys. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4199106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 17, 2015 Share Posted October 17, 2015 :P I try Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/309945-il-x-the-fire-keepers/#findComment-4199108 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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