GK Wishlist?

[Everon]

So we know in the next edition, next year, next sometime were getting an update and not sure if this is appropriate to throw up now. If not, feel free to lock and i shall go to repent for my failures. But I was curious for feed back and ideas. At the moment, I have been working on an idea to submit to GW and trying to appeal to them how some of these ideas can make them money, while giving us a decent codex. Looking at SM and DA though, not sure if they already got something good planned, or if its even worth a submission.

 

Here is what I have and ideas others have submitted or expressed feelings on thus far..

 

Updates :

Warlord Traits:

- Daemon-Slayer: The Warlord may re-roll all failed rolls to hit, to wound and Armour Penetration rolls when targeting a model with the Daemon special rule

- Hammer of Righteousness: The Warlord and his unit have the Hammer of Wrath and Zealot special rules

- Unyielding Anvil: The Warlord and his unit gain the Objective Secured special rule

- First to the Fray: The Warlord and his unit automatically arrive from Deepstrike Reserve in your first turn, and do not scatter when Deep Striking. 

- Shield of Blades: The Warlord and his unit gain +1 Attack whilst he is alive. 

- Lore Master: The Warlord knows one additional power than is normal for his Mastery level

 

Nemesis weapons:

- Sword: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Parry (+1 to invulnerable save, or grants a 6+ invulnerable save), default

- Anointed blade: Range -, Strength User, AP2, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Parry, Two-Handed, Brotherhood Champion only

- Halberd: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Quicksilver (this grants the wielder +1 Initiative), Two-Handed, +2pts

- Hammer: Range -, Strength x2, AP2, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Concussive, Unwieldy, Specialist Weapon, +10pts

- Stave: Range -, Strength +2, AP4, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Concussive, Adamantium Will, Two-Handed, +5pts

- Falchion: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Specialist Weapon, +2pts

 

*- Cuirass of Sacrifice: This replaces a models power armour, artificer armour or Terminator armour. This is a suit of Terminator armour that confers a 2+ armour save and a 5+ invulnerable save. The wearer has the Bulky, Deep Strike, It Will Not Die, Feel No Pain (4+) and Relentless special rules. In addition, they cannot make Sweeping Advances.

- The Fury of Deimos: This replaces a model's ranged weapon if they have one already. Range 24", Strength 7, AP2, Assault 3, Master-Crafted, Precision Shots

- The Soul Glaive: This replaces a model's nemesis force weapon. It has the following profile: Range -, Strength User, AP2, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Quicksilver, Soul Imprint, Two-handed. Soul Imprint: A model wielding the Soul Glaive re-rolls failed Psychic tests when attempting to manifest the 'Force' psychic power. Whilst the 'Force' psychic power is successfully manifested and targets the model wielding the Soul Glaive, in addition to gaining the 'Instant Death' special rule, they may re-roll all failed rolls to hit, to wound and Armour Penetration rolls whilst the Blessing is in effect.

 

*•Psilencer is made Heavy 10 6, Force, Poisoned 4+

*•Gatling Psilencer is made Heavy 20 12, Force Poisoned 4+

•For 5 points each model can purchase Pysbolt ammo. Pysbolt ammo grants +1 strength to attacks against models with the Daemon and Pysker rules. Agaisnt all other models, the weapons use their regular strength. The following weapons can receive the bonus of pysbolt ammo :

 

Psilencer, Gatling Psilencer, Auto cannons, Storm bolters, Hurricane bolters, Assault Cannons.

 

*• Nemesis Strike Force detachment. Keep it as it is now, but allow a little more reliability upon deep striking for an army whose whole basis is to be a deep striking army. Allow just scatter of one dice instead of the normal two or assault out of deep strike.

- Rites of Teleportation: Grey Knight units may make Deepstrike Reserve rolls starting on Turn 1. In addition, they may Run and Shoot, in any order, the same turn they arrive from Deepstrike Reserve. Furthermore, any Grey Knight unit that attempts to Deepstrike within 6" of another friendly Grey Knight unit does not roll for scatter.

 

*•Strike Squads. As it is now, they are the only power armored troop that can deep strike, yet nothing seperates them from Purgation Squads or Purifiers as to why those two units can not deep strike. 

I would recommend perhaps removing deepstrike and giving them Infiltrate or Scout to make them more in sync with with what Grey Knights need as well as a price reduction to a flat even 100 points. This creates more separation between them and Terminators which means can field more models if need be and have an option to get a teleport homer up field quick and where we need it.

Make 18 ppm

 

*•Purgation squads. As it is, Night fighting is useless as their only special ability. Lore even shows that the standard space marine helmet can adjust vision to see in night vision, infrared, heat signatures etc. etc. To make the equivalent of a devastator except better due to their psychic ability enhancing them, night vision is completely wasted.

I recommend giving Purgators Slow and Purposeful, so that at least they being the heavy weapons team, are the only power armored unit not hindered by salvo rules.  Perhaps a stance situation like the brotherhood champion as well. For example, each turn they can choose between a twin linking stance, split fire, ignores cover or if they did not move, they can sky fire on ballistic skill 2 instead of snap shots, or choose interceptor as well. It makes them multifunctional and a real contention for a formation slot or just heavy support for a combined arms detachment.

or Relentless with ignores cover

 

•Techmarine. As it is, he is just massively over expensive. Perhaps bring him up to the standard of a regular techmarine with the BS 5, W 2 , A 2 and lower his cost to 75 points. May take a personal teleporter.

 

*•Paladins. As is, 55 points a model is way over kill. Considering Devastator Centurians are the same price and can murder them all day long. Their price is just too much for an already expensive army. In the lore, being the best and toughest there is in the 666^th chapter, they should have better equipment and be tougher then the rest. What would balance them out is to grant them Sanctuary and / or an iron halo equivalent with a price drop to 45 50 points per model.and granted feel no pain.  I would also suggest T5 or Eternal Warrior.

 

•Dreadnought / Venerable dreadnought. Same story as the Techmarine. I would bring them up to par with the ability to squad up with others, and the 4 attacks base. It would also be awesome to include a 25 point upgrade on both to become a Librarian Dreadnought and increase their Mastery level to 2, in which they lose Sanctuary but can choose from other tables as normal librarians. In addition too, a lower point cost to 110 points. 

 

- Librarian: Add 'storm bolter' to default wargear

 

- Brotherhood Champion: Add 'personal teleporter' to wargear options. The Brotherhood Champion may select one Relic. One stance may be used at the start of any Assault phase, not just in a challenge. Replace nemesis force sword with anointed blade. 'Sword Strike' is replaced with 'Rapier Strike', which grants the Brotherhood Champion D3 additional attacks resolved at Initiative 10. 'Blade Shield' remains the same. 'Sword Storm' grants the Brotherhood Champion +1 Attack for every enemy model in base-to-base contact with him. 'Heroic Sacrifice' is changed to 'if this model is slain in close-combat, he can immediately make a single close-combat attack against a model in base-to-base contact with him. If the attack hits, it is resolved at Strength D and AP1. After resolving this attack, remove the Brotherhood Champion from the board'. Reduced to 120pts base cost.

*•Brotherhood Champion. make him 115 points with option to take teleporter

 

*• Castellan Crow - 150 points

 

•- Brother-Captain Stern: Replace 'Zone of Banishment' with 'Unbinding Master'. Instead of -1 to the target unit's invulnerable save, Stern reduces their invulnerable save to a 6+ new points cost = 165

 

 

Some possibilities of new Entries.

Heavy Support

•Predator Tanks. They use the same chassis as the Rhino and Razor back, they can be fast and hit hard when needed and easily produced on the Deimos Forgemoon.

 

Fast Attack

•Storm Talons. They fit the realm of possibility, their quick hard hitting and sync with us quite well.

 

 

 

Formations tend to be the future lately, and that’s what helps make books sell, and models people normally don’t bother with, now sell thanks to the power that formations give them. So I have included a few formations to play around with for testing to see if they would fit any standards.

 

Formations :

Vigilance of the Venerables :
When 3 Dreadnoughts of any kind are taken and are within 4" of one another, any one sanctuary casted by a dreadnought conveys a 5+ invulnerable on all dreadnoughts in the formation. All saves are re-rollable. In addition to this all units within 12" of the center Dreadnought have a standard +1 to their invulnerable save as well.

Formation :

3 Dreadnoughts or Venerable Dreadnoughts

__________________________________

DreadKnight Conclave :

If Librarian Gared is taken with at least two other DreadKnights, Gared becomes an Independent Character to attach to other DreadKnights only. Any other dreadknights within two inches of Gared or his unit are joined into the unit and function as if it were any other unit for intents and purposes. Should Librarian Gared separate from the other knights all other Dreadknights return to normal status of being independent from one another. Though, should Gared fall as a casualty, the same ruling applies but the remaining Dreadknights gain the Rampage rule for the rest of the battle.

Formation :

Librarian Gared

2-4 Nemesis Dreadknights

__________________________

Orias’s Vanguard :

Should Grand Master Orias and his squad of two Venerable Dreadnoughts be taken, all Dreadnoughts gain the It Will Not Die! special rule as well as Hatred. All three Dreadnoughts also ignore the effects of the damage table except for any Explodes! Results. All three dreadnoughts are considered one unit for all intents and purposes of casting abilities.

Formation :

Grandmaster Orias

2 Venerable Dreadnoughts

____________________________

Astral Aim :

When at least two Purgation squads are within 8 inchs of one another, they combine their psychic might to further enhance their abilities. All squads received +1 to their ballistic skill and may choose up to two stances per turn. All squads in this formation must share the same stances. gain twin linked rule.

Formation :

2-5 Purgation Squads

  ______________________________

 

Hammer and Anvil :

Special Rules :

Alpha Strike-

Select a designated primary unit. All models in this formation deep strike without scatter. In addition to this, all models in this formation may assault after they deep strike and gain the “Hammer of Wrath” rule.

Teleportation Flare –

All enemy models within 24 inches of the primary unit are temporarily blinded and can not over watch.

Formation:

2-3 Terminator Squads

1-2 Interceptor Squads

0-1 Brother Captain

0-1 Brotherhood Champion

_______________________________

 

*Purity of Fire :

For each additional Librarian or Purifier within 10 inches of Castellan Crowe, Cleansing flame can be granted one extra inch of distance with +1 strength and -1 ap.

 

Formation :

Castellan Crowe

2-4 Purifiers

0-2 Librarians

 

 

* Updated

Thoughts, ideas, feed back, flames?

[jeffersonian000]

I would like to see Psilencers mover back to Str X (4+), and maybe Salvo 4/6 instead of Str 4, Heavy 6, with the Heavy version also going Str X, yet staying Heavy 12. It opens up what it can wound while gaining utility.

 

All models should come with Psybolts automatically at no additional cost, usable on the same bolter weapons as before, bolt weapon gains Rending. Brings it in line with Psycannons, a small boost to our small arms fire.

 

Bring back the Nemesis Doom Fist, the standard melee weapon on DKs and Dreadnoughts.

 

A new unit needs to be added, a Centurion styled Fast attack option that is a Flying MC with a Nemesis Force Lance, chest mounted Psilencer, and an arm mount Psycannon. Replaced GK Interceptors.

 

Strikers should get free Dedictated Transport, be it a Rhino or Razorback, or the unit gains Personal Teleporters. This moves Strikes and Interceptors back to being PAGK, and makes the Troop slot more interesting.

 

GKT are fine.

 

Paladins should have Cleansing Flame and be PML2.

 

Purifiers are fine.

 

Dreadnoughts need to be PML2 Librarian Dreadnoughts with 4 attacks, counts as venerable, no price change.. Makes them and interesting choice.

 

BC and BroChamp need to be 25pts cheaper. BroChamp needs to be able to take a PT. BC needs to be worth taking. GM is fine.

 

Librarians are fine.

 

Purgation should have Slow and Purposeful, and Astral Aim should ignore cover.

 

Banishment should effect any model, not just daemons.

 

Purge Soul should deal 1 wound on a fail, d3 on a tie, and remove the model on a success.

 

GKs should have the Masters of Teleportation army special rule, which grants all GK units the Deep Strike special rule, and the ability to arrive without scatter if arriving within 6" of another GK unit. That could be a formation bonus, but it should be an army wide one.

 

SJ

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Army special rules:

- Combat Squads: As is. Note that each combat squad is considered a seperate unit for all game purposes, such as generating Warp Charge etc

- The Aegis: Re-roll failed attempts to Deny the Witch. This may be used against psychic powers that do not target a Grey Knight unit

- Purity of Spirit: Grey Knight Psykers do not Peril on doubles when attempting Sanctic Daemonology powers. They may never use Malefic Daemonology however. In addition, models within the Daemon special rule are reduced to WS1/BS1 whilst within 12" of a Grey Knight unit

- Rites of Teleportation: Grey Knight units may make Deepstrike Reserve rolls starting on Turn 1. In addition, they may Run and Shoot, in any order, the same turn they arrive from Deepstrike Reserve. Furthermore, any Grey Knight unit that attempts to Deepstrike within 6" of another friendly Grey Knight unit does not roll for scatter. 

- Daemonbane: If the 'Force' psychic power is successfully manifested and targets a unit with one or more weapons with this special rule, then in addition to gaining the 'Instant Death' special rule, all weapons with this special rule may re-roll failed to Wound and Armour Penetration rolls against models with the Daemon special rule, whilst this Blessing is in effect. 

 

Sanctic Daemonology Discipline:

- Primaris: Unbinding, Warp Charge 1. This is a Malediction that targets a single unit within 24". Whilst this power is in effect, all models in the target unit suffer a -1 penalty to their invulnerable save. This power is cumulative with all other modifiers to the target unit's invulnerable saves (including other 'Unbinding' targeting the same unit), but cannot reduce an invulnerable save below a 6+. 

- 1. Gate of Infinity, Warp Charge 1. This is a Blessing that targets the Psyker. Unless Swooping or Zooming, the target and his unit are immediately removed from the board and placed in Deep Strike Reserve. They automatically arrive from Reserve at the end of the Psychic Phase (as an exception to the normal rules for Reserves). Resolve their deployment as per normal for a unit conducting a Deep Strike. 

- 2. Hammerhand, Warp Charge 1. This is a Blessing that targets the Psyker. Whilst this power is in effect, the Psyker and his unit have +2 Strength. 

- 3. Sanctuary, Warp Charge 1. This is a Blessing that targets the Psyker, Whilst this power is in effect, the Psyker and all models in his unit receive a +1 bonus to their invulnerable save. In addition, all models with the Daemon special rule treat all terrain, including open ground, within 12" of the Psyker as both difficult and dangerous terrain. 

- 4. Sanctify, Warp Charge 1. This is a focused Witchfire with a range of 24". The target model must pass two Toughness tests. If one Toughness test is failed, the target model suffers a wound. If both Toughness tests are failed, the model suffers D3 wounds. If the target is a vehicle or building, it suffers two Haywire hits instead. Armour saves, cover saves, and Look Out Sir! rolls may not be taken against wounds or glancing/penetrating hits caused by 'Sanctify'. 

- 5. Cleansing Flame, Warp Charge 2. This is a Nova power with the following profile: Range 9", Strength 5, AP4, Assault 2D6, Ignores Cover, Soul Blaze

- 6. Vortex of Doom, Warp Charge 3. This is a Witchfire power with the following profile: Range 18", Strength D, AP1, Assault 1, Blast, Vortex

 

Relics of Titan (you may select one per character, no duplicates):

- Bone Shard of Solor: The bearer of the Bone Shard of Solor may re-roll failed invulnerable saves. Whilst within 12" of a model with the Daemon special rule, they gain +1 to their invulnerable save. Whilst within 12" of a model with the Mark of Khorne/Daemon of Khorne special rules, they gave +2 to their invulnerable save instead. 

- Cuirass of Sacrifice: This replaces a models power armour, artificer armour or Terminator armour. This is a suit of Terminator armour that confers a 2+ armour save and a 5+ invulnerable save. The wearer has the Bulky, Deep Strike, It Will Not Die, Feel No Pain (4+) and Relentless special rules. In addition, they cannot make Sweeping Advances. 

- Domina Liber Daemonica: The bearer knows one more psychic power than is normal for his Mastery level. This must be generated from the Sanctic discipline. In addition, the bearer and all friendly models within 6" of the bearer re-roll 1's when attempting to manifest psychic powers from the Sanctic discipline. 

- The Fury of Deimos: This replaces a model's ranged weapon if they have one already. Range 24", Strength 7, AP2, Assault 3, Master-Crafted, Precision Shots

- The Nemesis Banner: All Grey Knights units within 12" have the Fearless special rule. In additional, all models in the same unit as the bearer gain +1 Attack. Furthermore, all models with the Daemon special rule within 12" of the bearer treat all terrain, including open ground, as both difficult and dangerous terrain. 

- The Soul Glaive: This replaces a model's nemesis force weapon. It has the following profile: Range -, Strength User, AP2, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Quicksilver, Soul Imprint, Two-handed. Soul Imprint: A model wielding the Soul Glaive re-rolls failed Psychic tests when attempting to manifest the 'Force' psychic power. Whilst the 'Force' psychic power is successfully manifested and targets the model wielding the Soul Glaive, in addition to gaining the 'Instant Death' special rule, they may re-roll all failed rolls to hit, to wound and Armour Penetration rolls whilst the Blessing is in effect. 

 

Warlord Traits:

- Daemon-Slayer: The Warlord may re-roll all failed rolls to hit, to wound and Armour Penetration rolls when targeting a model with the Daemon special rule

- Hammer of Righteousness: The Warlord and his unit have the Hammer of Wrath and Zealot special rules

- Unyielding Anvil: The Warlord and his unit gain the Objective Secured special rule

- First to the Fray: The Warlord and his unit automatically arrive from Deepstrike Reserve in your first turn, and do not scatter when Deep Striking. 

- Shield of Blades: The Warlord and his unit gain +1 Attack whilst he is alive. 

- Lore Master: The Warlord knows one additional power than is normal for his Mastery level

 

Nemesis weapons:

- Sword: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Parry (+1 to invulnerable save, or grants a 6+ invulnerable save), default

- Anointed blade: Range -, Strength User, AP2, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Parry, Two-Handed, Brotherhood Champion only

- Halberd: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Quicksilver (this grants the wielder +1 Initiative), Two-Handed, +2pts

- Hammer: Range -, Strength x2, AP2, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Concussive, Unwieldy, Specialist Weapon, +10pts

- Stave: Range -, Strength +2, AP4, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Concussive, Adamantium Will, Two-Handed, +5pts

- Falchion: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Specialist Weapon, +2pts

 

Psycannon Weapons:

- Psycannon: Range 24", Strength 7, AP4, Assault 2/Heavy 4, Rending, Ionic (successful invulnerable saves must be re-rolled against wounds or glancing/penetrating hits caused by this weapon), 15pts for PA, 20pts for TDA

- Heavy psycannon: Range 24", Strength 7, AP4, Assault 3/Heavy 6, Rending, Ionic, 30pts

 

Psilencer weapons:

- Psilencer: Range 24", Strength 4, AP-, Assault 6, Force, Poisoned (4+), 10pts for PA, 15pts for TDA

- Gatling psilencer: Range 24", Strength 4, AP-, Heavy 12, Force, Poisoned (4+), 25pts

 

Incinerator weapons:

- Incinerator: Range Template, Strength 6, AP4, Assault 1, Soul Blaze, 5pts

- Heavy incinerator: Range Template, Strength 6, AP4, Heavy 1, Soul Blaze, Torrent, 20pts

 

Special Issue Wargear:

- Brotherhood Banner: All Grey Knight models within 12" of the banner re-roll failed Leadership tests. In addition, the bearer and all models in his unit recieve +1 Attack (10pts, one Terminator or Paladin squad per detachment)

- Digital weapons: The bearer may re-roll a failed roll to wound once per Assault phase, 5pts

- Personal teleporter: Models with a personal teleporter add the Jump type to their unit type. In addition, once per game a unit comprised entirely of models with personal teleporters may make a teleport Shunt move. This may be used at either in the controlling player's Movement phase, or in either player's Assault phase. A unit making a teleport Shunt move is placed anywhere within 30" of their original position. They may not end up on another unit or impassable terrain, but the Shunt move ignores intervening units, terrain etc. A unit cannot charge in the same turn that it makes a teleport Shunt. 20pts

- Psi-grenades: May be used in the Shooting phase with the following profile, Range 8", Strength 2, AP-, Assault 1, Blast, Psi-shock (any unit that contains models with the Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerors or Psychic Pilot special rules that are hit by a weapon with this special rule immediately suffer Perils of the Warp, resolved against one random Psyker model in the unit). In the Assault phase, models with the Daemon, Psyker, Brotherhood of Psykers/Sorcerors or Psychic Pilot special rules charging a unit with psi-grenades do not gain any bonus attacks for charging and have their Initiative reduced to 1. Default on all squads and characters. 

 

HQ:

- Librarian: Add 'storm bolter' to default wargear

- Brotherhood Champion: Add 'personal teleporter' to wargear options. The Brotherhood Champion may select one Relic. One stance may be used at the start of any Assault phase, not just in a challenge. Replace nemesis force sword with anointed blade. 'Sword Strike' is replaced with 'Rapier Strike', which grants the Brotherhood Champion D3 additional attacks resolved at Initiative 10. 'Blade Shield' remains the same. 'Sword Storm' grants the Brotherhood Champion +1 Attack for every enemy model in base-to-base contact with him. 'Heroic Sacrifice' is changed to 'if this model is slain in close-combat, he can immediately make a single close-combat attack against a model in base-to-base contact with him. If the attack hits, it is resolved at Strength D and AP1. After resolving this attack, remove the Brotherhood Champion from the board'. Reduced to 120pts base cost. 

- Brother-Captain Stern: Replace 'Zone of Banishment' with 'Unbinding Master'. Instead of -1 to the target unit's invulnerable save, Stern reduces their invulnerable save to a 6+

- Castellan Crowe: See changes to Brotherhood Champion. May use all three stances in a challenge. Reduced to 150pts base cost. 

- Tech-Marine: BS5, W2, nemesis force sword replaces power axe. May take rad, blind and psychostroke grenades. May take a personal teleporter. Reduced to 75pts base cost. 

 

Elites:

- 3-man Paladin squad reduced to 120pts, may add up to 7 additional Paladins at 40ppm. For every three Paladins in the squad, one may exchange their storm bolter for a special weapon. All Paladin models count their weapons as master-crafted.

- Dreadnought has Attacks 4, AV13 front, multi-melta and nemesis hammer+storm bolter by default. May replace multi-melta or nemesis hammer+storm bolter with heavy psycannon, gatling psilencer, heavy incinerator, multi-melta, plasma cannon or nemesis hammer+storm bolter. May replace any storm bolters with meltagun or incinerator. Reduced to 100pts base cost. 

- Purifiers gain the Deepstrike special rule

 

Troops:

- 5-man Terminator squad reduced to 150pts, may add up to 5 additional Terminators for 30ppm. 

- 5-man Strike squad reduced to 100pts, may add up to 5 additional Strikes for 20ppm. Strikes gain the Interceptor special rule. 

 

Fast Attack:

- 5-man Interceptor squad reduced to 125pts, may add up to 5 additional Interceptors for 25ppm. Interceptors gain the Hit and Run special rule

- Storm Raven has twin-psycannon dorsal turret and twin-multimelta nose mount by default. May replace twin-psycannon with twin-plasma cannon or twin-lascannon. May replace twin-multimelta with typhoon missile launcher. May take a single twin-linked heavy incinerator as a sponson system. 

- Rhinos and Razorbacks gain the Psychic Pilot (Mastery 1) special rule. Knows 'Unbinding' and 'Sanctuary' by default. Razorback has twin-psycannon by default, may exchange for twin-multimelta, twin lascannon, lascannon+twin plasma gun or twin-incinerator. 

 

Heavy Support:

- 5-man Purgator squad reduced to 100pts, may add up to 5 additional Purgators at 20ppm. Purgators gain the Deepstrike and Relentless special rules. 

- Dreadknights largely unchanged. Nemesis greatsword loses master-crafted rule, gains the Quicksilver special rule (grants +1 Initiative).

 

Probably need to tone down some of it, but that's basically what I wanna see. I really don't care about the Formations we'll get. I'd prefer they fix up the building blocks, before moving onto the new shiny. 

[Gentlemanloser]

 

 

 Sword: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Parry (+1 to invulnerable save, or grants a 6+ invulnerable save), default

 

- Falchion: Range -, Strength User, AP3, Melee, Force, Daemonbane, Specialist Weapon, +2pts

 

Why would you ever use a Falchion over a Sword?  Are you missing the +1A? ;)

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Nah, because just like in the current codex, you can choose to equip two falchions instead of your sword ;) so because you have two close-combat weapons, you get +1A. 

[Gentlemanloser]

Are they two points each?  The stats are 'Falchion' 2pts. ;)

[Aethernitas]

It's a nice hotchpotch of ideas and many are reasonable but some of those proposed changes are broken beyond reason and imo very obviously so. I would go so far as to say that they would make our Spiritual Liege blush...

 

I was writing up some of the gems but I decided against it. If you still want examples just ask.

[Deamon Wolf]

I think that for the most part our Strikes Termis, Paladins, Purifyers and Interceptors are fine no change required ,

 

Purgation squads need either Deep Strike rules or relentless rule  ( also some new special weapons for purgation squads only would be a good thing )

 

I think we need more fast attack slots maybe have a jet bike squad to support the Interceptors

 

Dreadnaughts need to be given the same statline as SM Dex ones

Libby Dreads would be a good addition to the Elite section ( that's how you get the Doom Fist back  )

 

HQ selection we defiantly need some more named HQ's compared to the BA / SW Dex we are low on named boys , bring back Thrawn and Mordrak or create some new ones like a dedicated Libby named dude who is so powerful that he is a master lvl 4 or 5

 

apart from that our HQs are reasonable although I think we all still want an interceptor HQ

 

I think we should have access to a deployable Locator beacon or Teleport homer something like a drop pod but no transport capacity just lots of guns and the ability to turn up turn 1 automatically shoot everything around it then the Terminators , or Strikes or Paladins turn up next to it

 

tanks meh don't use them don't need them not really fluffy for us

 

Deadknights are brilliant but it would be nice if we could take up to 3 per force org slot 

 

then of course we need some special formations such as the Flame of Titan  ( 44 Pruifyers ( the total amount in the chapter at present ) whilst all units are within 6 " of Crow Cleansing flame is a 6 D6 shot at S5 ap 4 )

 

 

Then do a Body Guard Formation of Paladins only ( whilst in base contact with 2 other paladins or HQ / LoW Model the model gains T5 and fearless )

 

I like the current Brotherhood formation more along those lines would be good

 

I think that the Bone Shard of Solor and the Nemesis Banner needs to be binned and 2 alternate Relics be created

[Reclusiarch Darius]

Are they two points each? The stats are 'Falchion' 2pts.

Yeah, that was deliberate. You buy them as a pair, so 4pts total for the upgrade. Just like it is now.

It's a nice hotchpotch of ideas and many are reasonable but some of those proposed changes are broken beyond reason and imo very obviously so. I would go so far as to say that they would make our Spiritual Liege blush...

I was writing up some of the gems but I decided against it. If you still want examples just ask.

Yeah I know. I mean, I'd probably drop the changes to our special rules, and like psi-grenades (I almost never use psk-out anyway). I'm just so bored watching 'Blessings' and 'Conjuration' powers being essentially undeniable. 'Aegis' only helps against Witchfires and Maledictions, which most armies aren't using anyway.

Did you have any issues with the weapon changes? I feel like psilencer still needs a buff, it doesn't work as intended currently. I suppose Ionic is a bit much, but that's originally what psycannon did (ignore invul saves). Moving our unique weapons onto our vehicles seemed like a logical step though. FW is the only place it's currently done, and it's massively overpriced in both cases (Doomglaive is like 200pts and worse in every way than a DK, the psycannon Razorback is absurdly overpriced).

I think that for the most part our Strikes Termis, Paladins, Purifyers and Interceptors are fine no change required ,

Paladins need a point reduction. Even if that was all they got, I'd be taking them again. 40pts, if they're still more than that, Termies still beat them.

Purgation squads need either Deep Strike rules or relentless rule ( also some new special weapons for purgation squads only would be a good thing )

They need both. Without Deepstrike, they're like Purifiers, we have to Ally drop pods for them (which is absurd). Without Relentless, they're useless with anything except incinerators. It would neatly dodge the fetish GW has with Salvo of late. New special weapons won't happen. Our trinity of flamer, assault cannon and weird mind-bullet cannon is how we operate.

I think we need more fast attack slots maybe have a jet bike squad to support the Interceptors

I don't see us getting jetbikes. GW's general design philosophy with us is 'it has to be able to teleport'. Interceptors are our Bikers basically.

Dreadnaughts need to be given the same statline as SM Dex ones

Libby Dreads would be a good addition to the Elite section ( that's how you get the Doom Fist back )

It's redundant because our Dreads are psykers anyway. I'd give them a nemesis hammer instead of their useless DCCW. They ignore Unwieldy because they're walkers, and it gets them to S10 AP2 and with 'Force'+'Daemonbane'. We don't need Libby Dreads.

HQ selection we defiantly need some more named HQ's compared to the BA / SW Dex we are low on named boys , bring back Thrawn and Mordrak or create some new ones like a dedicated Libby named dude who is so powerful that he is a master lvl 4 or 5

Mordrak got turned into a Warlord trait, so he's not coming back. Thrawn might, I still don't know why he was axed in the first place. I don't know if we'll get a named Librarian. The most powerful psyker in the game is Mastery 4, and no Grey Knight is as powerful as Ahriman. So, at best, our named one will be Mastery 4.

apart from that our HQs are reasonable although I think we all still want an interceptor HQ

I think we should have access to a deployable Locator beacon or Teleport homer something like a drop pod but no transport capacity just lots of guns and the ability to turn up turn 1 automatically shoot everything around it then the Terminators , or Strikes or Paladins turn up next to it

The easy fix is to give Brotherhood Champions and Tech-Marines personal teleporters. That way, they can attach to Interceptors and have a purpose. Currently, neither of them have a 'home' squad to attach to. Tech-Marines don't even have servitors :( .

GW has made a design decision to not give us drop pods. Our thing is teleportation. If you Deepstrike support, take Allied Marine Scouts or Scout Bikers. They're actually better than a drop pod with locator beacon/teleport homer, because they start on table (thus circumventing the stupid restrictions around both devices), they Infiltrate and Scout.

tanks meh don't use them don't need them not really fluffy for us

Agreed. We have transports that also shoot. Our focus is our infantry, like it always has been.

Deadknights are brilliant but it would be nice if we could take up to 3 per force org slot

Nah, they're too powerful an MC for GW to give us squads of them. Besides, they're meant to operate alone anyway. I could see a Formation though.

then of course we need some special formations such as the Flame of Titan ( 44 Pruifyers ( the total amount in the chapter at present ) whilst all units are within 6 " of Crow Cleansing flame is a 6 D6 shot at S5 ap 4 )

Nah GW rarely modifies existing psychic powers with Formations. More likely, they'll let you manifest 'Cleansing Flame' on a 2+ or something. Or maybe that Hellstorm template version from the Apoc formation no one uses.

Then do a Body Guard Formation of Paladins only ( whilst in base contact with 2 other paladins or HQ / LoW Model the model gains T5 and fearless )

Paladins are already bodyguards. I wouldn't be giving them T5. They really just need a price reduction. 40ppm would be accurate, I'd even accept 45. But 55 is just way over the top. If GW can with a straight face reduce Centurions in price, they can reduce Paladins.

I like the current Brotherhood formation more along those lines would be good

Throne no it's terrible. I hate mandatory selections in Formations. The fact that you're rigidly committed to somewhere in the region of 1000pts of models (before any upgrades) is just stupid. They need to give us a Formation that is far more flexible. A few mandatory choices is fine, but not the whole thing.

I think that the Bone Shard of Solor and the Nemesis Banner needs to be binned and 2 alternate Relics be created

Nemesis Banner is the Chapter Banner, so it's staying (and GW love banners, I think there is one in every codex just about). Bone Shard could be cut, could stay. It's a fairly amusing item to take against Daemons.

[Emicus]

This thread makes me a little sad. So many of the suggestions are boring and unimaginative. I’m not going to claim I can do any better but look at what GW has managed to do with the last few books. They really pulled a number out of the hat with the last Marines book and the rumoured Dark Angels sounds excellent as well.

“drop points costs, give everything better S, AP, or both, equalise stats from the SM book and give us the rest of the equipment from the SM book too please” sums up a lot of the wish-list here

What about the fluff? Why have siege equipment when you’re supposed to be the scalpel.

What about unique wargear? We’ve got a bunch already, why not more instead of getting the Marines surplus production.

Why points drops? We’re supposed to be few and elite. Make us MORE elite to compensate for power level instead of more numerous.

If I had to pick four things at the top of my head I thought the GK was about it would be
- Few but elite
- ‘shank demons reeel guud’
- Psychic
- Teleportation/quick in n’ out

So T4 and 2+ armour isn’t good enough with the proliferation of Grav, Plasma and such similar. Give us FNP across the board because we’re so tough then. Or more toughness. Or invent a new type of armour. Or make it re-rollable because of “psychic shield”. Don’t drop the points so you get to have more terminators that are equally dead when being shot with said weapons.

Shank demons reel guud. I reckon we have a pretty good lid on that already. Except flying things. Tacking wings or jetpacks on to Marines doesn’t work for me personally but it’s an idea already presented. Could be a psychic power that isn’t necessarily geared to kill fliers, but is really good at killing or hurting daemons, and can be targeted at flying creatures to make ‘em crash.

Daemonic Brain Haemorrhage. Takes a wound, makes ‘em initiative 1 for a turn and has a big chance to “force them to the ground”. Either doesn’t have to target, or has Skyfire when targeting a FMC. Could work on Nids too… they’re certainly a Daemon in my side when I can barely touch them.

Psychic. Paladins letting you down for points cost? Give them ML2. Cleansing flame. Or Sanctuary. Or Gate. Or magical and wonderful new powers I can’t even dream up because I’m not that creative.

We’re supposed to wreck Daemons right, and that’s why everyone has Banishment? Well there’s two ways to banish a daemon… Any psychic power that helps us mulch daemons is as fluffy as another so why does it have to be banishment and not mind bullets, or mind fire, or mind shield keeping you alive to shank them. And those things happen to work on everyone else too, not just warp-spawn

Teleportation. We’ve seen GW is fine with the idea of “Perfect Reserves”. It’s fluffy for marines and it’s sure as gak fluffy for us. Pick when you arrive from reserves, no or less scatter, beacons on units work same turn on other units, charge after deep strike, split fire after deepstrike, re-rollable saves after deepstrike, twin-link after deepstrike. MULTIPLE DEEPSTRIKE?! You can port back to the ship and come back on from on-going reserves next turn.

Oh and Purgators are weird. We need heavy weapons, but we need them on the move. Something needs to happen there as 12” range is really, really short even if you want up in someone’s grill. And 3 shots isn’t much to talk about for a Heavy Weapon, it’s fine sitting in a corner pot shotting all game but when you’re in someone’s face, and you need to blast them back to the warp and get a sodding move on, 3 shots just won’t cut it. Unless I’ve been thinking about them wrong all this time and should use Incinerators.

​

[Shadrach03]

How about this for psilencers.

 

Salvo 3/6 24" S4 AP- Force, psychic barrage

 

Psychic barrage-for every mastery level above 1 improve strength by 1, SO by 1 and range by 6". Add to librarian wargear selections.

[Reclusiarch Darius]

This thread makes me a little sad. So many of the suggestions are boring and unimaginative. I’m not going to claim I can do any better but look at what GW has managed to do with the last few books. They really pulled a number out of the hat with the last Marines book and the rumoured Dark Angels sounds excellent as well.

What, you mean drop points costs, add free buffs, expand wargear options? Nobody would be looking twice at Devastators unless they had grav. People still wouldn't care about Stalkers unless they had Ignore Cover in a squadron. Assault Marines are still junk, but Skyhammer gives them a purpose missing in a 'normal' list. If anything, the things being proposed in the thread are mild in comparison to the actual codex updates we've seen.

“drop points costs, give everything better S, AP, or both, equalise stats from the SM book and give us the rest of the equipment from the SM book too please” sums up a lot of the wish-list here

I'm not asking for better Strength or AP. I'm asking GW standardise our vehicles the same with SM. It's retarded that our Dreads are now the worst in the game. I'm not asking for grav, or Centurions, or Thunderfire cannon, or tanks etc. I'm asking for what we have to not suck, and not be objectively worse than just Allying vanilla Marine versions.

What about the fluff? Why have siege equipment when you’re supposed to be the scalpel.

Who is asking for siege equipment?

What about unique wargear? We’ve got a bunch already, why not more instead of getting the Marines surplus production.

GW won't give us any more gun types, and we're not getting Marine special/heavy weapons on our infantry because they're not effective against Daemons. Our vehicles are the only place you'll find Marine standard weapons. If our vehicles weren't overpriced and underpowered, we'd field them to supplement our incinerator/psycannon/psilencer core.

Why points drops? We’re supposed to be few and elite. Make us MORE elite to compensate for power level instead of more numerous.

Because Paladins are overcosted garbage. Because our HQ section reads 'take Librarian, the rest are trash'. Because Deathwing can tell you, front-loading a bunch of special rules that make no difference to a unit's survivability, then subsequently fielding less of everything due to that inflated point cost, means you're dead in the water. If Brotherhood Champions, Tech-Marines and Crowe are going to be useable, then they need to be cheaper and actually good at what they do.

It's not like we'll be able to bring that many more dudes anyway. Even with the point reductions I mentioned, you're still only fielding like 20-30 guys.

- Few but elite

- ‘shank demons reeel guud’

- Psychic

- Teleportation/quick in n’ out

The problem is, our specialization is killing us. All of our anti-Daemon tech doesn't mean jack against any other faction, so it's completely useless in those matchups. We don't have issues stomping Daemons, at all. They fear us. But everyone else runs us over whilst ignoring all that fancy stuff designed to slay warp creatures.

So T4 and 2+ armour isn’t good enough with the proliferation of Grav, Plasma and such similar. Give us FNP across the board because we’re so tough then. Or more toughness. Or invent a new type of armour. Or make it re-rollable because of “psychic shield”. Don’t drop the points so you get to have more terminators that are equally dead when being shot with said weapons.

We're not getting Feel No Pain, and it makes no difference against S8 hits anyway (hi Riptides). The Parry rule I mentioned ressurects our 5th edition sword bonus, but applies it at range as well (representing the warrior parrying bullets with his sword). So, that upgrades basic Terminators to a 4+ invul, going to a 3+ with 'Sanctuary' up. The same boosts Paladins, so they don't just melt to S8 AP2 hits automatically.

Read what you wrote. 'More Terminators that are equally dead' is somehow worse than 'fewer Terminators who are also equally dead'. That doesn't make sense dude. If I am able to squeeze 20 Terminators into a list instead of 10, that's 10 more Terminators the enemy has to kill. Even if it's only a difference of 5 more, it's still an extra squad.

Shank demons reel guud. I reckon we have a pretty good lid on that already. Except flying things. Tacking wings or jetpacks on to Marines doesn’t work for me personally but it’s an idea already presented. Could be a psychic power that isn’t necessarily geared to kill fliers, but is really good at killing or hurting daemons, and can be targeted at flying creatures to make ‘em crash.

'Cleansing Flame' already does that. Our issue is that when trying to hurt any Flyer that isn't made of paper mache (ie Vendettas, Heldrakes, Ravens etc), 'Cleansing Flame' is worthless. You also have to be within 9" of said Flyer to hurt it anyway, which is difficult because Purifiers are not very durable or mobile.

Daemonic Brain Haemorrhage. Takes a wound, makes ‘em initiative 1 for a turn and has a big chance to “force them to the ground”. Either doesn’t have to target, or has Skyfire when targeting a FMC. Could work on Nids too… they’re certainly a Daemon in my side when I can barely touch them.

'Psychic Scream' and 'Purge Soul' already do that, to some extent. Also, Daemons don't have brains. I feel like you're trying to re-invent the wheel. We already have tools to deal with FMC's. What we suck against is enemy Flyers. We currently need Allies to do that job.

Psychic. Paladins letting you down for points cost? Give them ML2. Cleansing flame. Or Sanctuary. Or Gate. Or magical and wonderful new powers I can’t even dream up because I’m not that creative.

ML2 makes no sense, they're the martial elite of the Chapter, they're not especially powerful psykers (not their specialism). 'Cleansing Flame' is already what Purifiers do. 'Sanctuary' would be great. 'Gate' is again more about psychic mastery, has nothing to do with being a great warrior. They're not getting new powers. GW's new trend is to get rid of all 'unique' powers, and make Disciplines that they pick and mix from. That's why all our old powers got deleted or rolled into 'Sanctic'.

We’re supposed to wreck Daemons right, and that’s why everyone has Banishment? Well there’s two ways to banish a daemon… Any psychic power that helps us mulch daemons is as fluffy as another so why does it have to be banishment and not mind bullets, or mind fire, or mind shield keeping you alive to shank them. And those things happen to work on everyone else too, not just warp-spawn

Because 'Banishment' represent the psyker ripping the Daemon's hold on reality away from it. Daemons can't exist in realspace for long without something to fuel their power, realspace actually eats away at them like acid (they're simply not meant to exist in reality, and so realspace tries to push them out). It wouldn't have any effect on a non-warp creature, because a mortal creature is part of realspace.

As I suggested, I think changing 'Banishment' to 'Unbinding' and making it work on any unit reducing their invul save would make it a lot less useless. It's still got no application against units without invul saves, but it's at least useable in more than one matchup.

Teleportation. We’ve seen GW is fine with the idea of “Perfect Reserves”. It’s fluffy for marines and it’s sure as gak fluffy for us. Pick when you arrive from reserves, no or less scatter, beacons on units work same turn on other units, charge after deep strike, split fire after deepstrike, re-rollable saves after deepstrike, twin-link after deepstrike. MULTIPLE DEEPSTRIKE?! You can port back to the ship and come back on from on-going reserves next turn.

We already roll on Turn 1 for teleporting in. Locator beacons and teleport homers are the same across every book dude, they won't make them special for us. We won't get charge after Deepstrike, because unlike Assault Marines we are actually good in melee combat. Split Fire is a waste, we have barely enough firepower per squad to be sufficient for one target, nevermind two. Re-rollable saves is dumb and makes no sense. Vengeful Strike would be as meaningless as it is with Deathwing (and we have access to 'Prescience' anyway, which is a far superior buff).

Why would we voluntarily leave the battlefield? 'Gate' returns you to play straight away. What use could we have for going back into Reserve?

Oh and Purgators are weird. We need heavy weapons, but we need them on the move. Something needs to happen there as 12” range is really, really short even if you want up in someone’s grill. And 3 shots isn’t much to talk about for a Heavy Weapon, it’s fine sitting in a corner pot shotting all game but when you’re in someone’s face, and you need to blast them back to the warp and get a sodding move on, 3 shots just won’t cut it. Unless I’ve been thinking about them wrong all this time and should use Incinerators.

If Purgators had Deepstrike and Relentless, they'd be fine. The Salvo rules are flat out retarded, but they can be negated by putting Relentless onto the squad (so like DK's or Terminators, it doesn't matter). Also, psycannon is 4 shot in stationary mode, not 3. It drops to 2 shots on the move. Relentless also fixes the issue of psilencer being Heavy for some insane reason.

[Emicus]

I did not mean my thread to be an “attack” on anyone’s ideas in particular RD, I tried to air my frustration as to the “oh we just want an update” I feel when reading the wish-lists, and size that feeling up to updates such as formations and rules added to Eldar, or Necrons, or space marines, or rumoured Dark Angels. All those books tried something… different and fluffy it seemed and really upped the ante.

I’m not going to try and defend all of my suggestions above as I was just throwing things at the screen to think “okay, so, what might just work, if you were really reaching out there” for things that would have an effect on the power level without just dropping posts cost.

To take one example: If paladins are too expensive for what they do right now, just make them do more instead of cheaper. It works out the same way power level wise except the small & elite concept isn’t washed out. To be an idiot: “Straight 10’s across the board for stats cap’n, that’ll work”, OR psychic powers, OR movement. OR all three. Front loading a bunch of models that can’t do jack is a bad idea, I get that, front loading a bunch of models that can handle it – that works! It’s worked before, it’s sort of working now except the book is stuck an edition back in time.

GW invented Grav for some marines, why not invent something new for us? I mean really, why not? We’ve already got… lots of special war gear.

Why can’t we get FNP? If we’re so incredibly tough and eleet (in comparison to regular marines, who’re already badass). Why can’t we have more wounds? Or toughness? Or attacks?

There’s got to be a way to make our terminators better without saying “Oh, yeah, you can have 50% more of them”. I’m not saying I can’t see that dropping points is a valid strategy to the problem, but it’s boring and washes out what I feel is part of the core of the army, being that elite special snowflake.

Why have different psychic powers that kills daemons in equally effective ways but with different spells? Because they work against non-daemon targets as well. Cleansing Flame is GREAT. But it’s hard to take down fliers with it because of range, you only get to do it once.

Sure my suggested brain haemorrhage was a horrible idea but I thought that came across as a joke name that nobody sane would ever use (Hi GW!). Do you feel we’ve got plenty of tools to take down FMC then? Because praying for cleansing flame, praying for either delayed reserves or gate of infinity, praying to not scatter doesn’t really work for me. Or allying pods to ferry Purifiers. Or loads of STormravens because it's just... convoluted. Why not more ways than CF? And as you said it doesn't hurt regular fliers

Sure there’s BS1 shooting but dangnabbit I’m not a fan. Stormraven? Fine. I can’t make mine work but it’s probably incompetence. Purge soul is probably exactly what I described except purge soul is terrible.
- get it randomly
- roll to hit
- test to wound
- 1/3 chance to ground
- Can’t hurt other flyers

Why can’t the pilot of whatever flying brick be affected by this spell?

As for why units might have different abilities to kill daemons with, psykers manifest in different ways, right? That everyone and their dog can do the same thing, banishment, when that’s supposed to be superdupermegahard on top just seems weird to me. I can’t tell you that the black library books are good canon but I thought it was wicked when the terminators there used cleansing flame under another name. Making banishment work against multiple armies is one thing with your unbinding idea, but other tricks work against other armies too, if our troops could use them.

“Formation, take 3 x5 terminators, they can now pool casting ability together ala conclave style and cast cleansing flame from 1 unit”. That sounds sort of kind of like what happened in the books.


We can come in turn 1. Do you feel good about reserving everything? Scatter? Failing reserves and coming piecemeal? Can SM elect to come turn one or two as they please when using magic formations? Does the DA rumours talk of similar reserve things?

Yes they do. Why can’t we get more reliable if it’s our “thing”, because I feel other power armour armies are going to do it helluvalot better than us.

Leave the battlefield because why not? You get some tactical flexibility in moving around, deep striking a lot. They get beamed up after a completed objective say, or being stranded in nowhere because a bad teleport and they’re useless. Then come back down. Gate of Infinity works much better for sure, but wouldn’t it be sickly OP to have that on every unit, and with zero drawback? Having to sit out a turn is at least a drawback.

perhaps I’m naïve and just looking for that “woaaaah” feeling instead of “just an adjustment”. With something new and shiny, a new special rule, a new type of crazy formation, a new gun, new psychic powers.. not 20% more models and a slight adjustment to some units. I mean Purgators are the perfect example here. What’s their battlefield role? Why does it or doesn’t it work?

What’s the easiest fix? Relentless. But why does relentless make sense? It’s a heavy weapon, you spray bullets, you need to aim, you’re running around, that doesn’t work… And if it’s because of the armour, why can’t everyone else do it? What would an AWESOME fix be? I have no idea.

We struggle with flyers because we don’t have Skyfire. Easiest fix, give Skyfire to at best str7 guns with comparatively short range, and/or increase the range and strength. What’s an awesome fix? Mind bullets (at least I think mind bullets are cool, pop the pilots head and down goes the bird). Daemons don’t have flying vehicles so why have flying vehicle guns.. Daemons have sort of resemblance to a corporeal form that can be popped, so can a normal man or xeno.

 

 

That’s just MY wish-list mind, because I think it sounds cool, and since GW can do whatever they want it’s just possible. I’m really surprised other people don’t see it the way I do because I think the adjustment route isn’t as interesting but it’s equally effective at changing the power level. It was also silly of me to say I was “sad at other people’s ideas” because that could be seen as offensive and I apologise. I just… “woaaah”.. please?

------------------------------------------------------------
 
TLDR: Emicus is naïve and hopes for moments of “woah” with childlike glee. He’s unable to see why cool things can’t happen because GW can do whatever they want. He hopes they stick with few & elite GK and makes them tuffer’ and not more numerous. He also likes mind bullets… possibly too much.

​

[Gentlemanloser]

'Aegis' only helps against Witchfires and Maledictions

Grey Area. Lets not go there again.

Thrawn might, I still don't know why he was axed in the first place.

Yes we do.

Didn't have a model, and GW didn't want Chapterhouse (or someone else) getting in their first.

Mordrak got turned into a Warlord trait, so he's not coming back.

See above.

He could *easily* come back, with his Trait as the one he actually has, with no rolling.

Emicus is naïve and hopes for moments of “woah” with childlike glee. He’s unable to see why cool things can’t happen because GW can do whatever they want. He hopes they stick with few & elite GK and makes them tuffer’ and not more numerous. He also likes mind bullets… possibly too much.

/thumbs up

[jeffersonian000]

The only units I asked for a price reduction in were he HQs that are underperformers. Didn't even ask for a performance increase, just a minor drop in price to made them more interesting. Btw, "interesting" = "a viable choice".

 

The only "power-ups" I asked for were for our duds, the Dreadnought and the Purgators. We really should have Librarian Dreads. The fact that Bangles got them while the psyker chapter didn't is just annoying. They don't have to be badass, they just need to exist. A Venerable Dreadnought with PML2 and the ability to roll on powers at the high cost we already pay is thematic and an interesting choice. And putting Slow and Purposeful on our Purgators as well as ignore cover would represent both the suspensors they use to have, and what Astral Sight should be in he current meta. And with army wide DS, Purgators would seriously stop sucking.

 

On the question of special characters, each of the named GMs would be cool, listed as a GM with specific upgrades, powers, and Warlord trait. Gives us a little nod to the specific Brotherhood we might want to build. Since GMs can be made from a GKT box set, and GW can cash in on a very cheap "GM/BC + Relics" plastic kit based in the GKT sprews, it's a wonder why they haven't done it yet. Maybe in a few months, when 8th comes out.

 

The only new kit I'm promoting is a FMC Fast choice based on the Centurion kit. It'd be an up-armored Interceptor, propelled by Telekine, able to go toe to claw with the Flyers our Stormraven is too big and awkward to fight. My opinion. Will be mocking one up just for S and G's. I like the idea of giving the DK treatment to our best PA unit.

 

As for the rest of our vehicles? Leave them vanilla. Tanks aren't our style, we just have them to backfil the gapping holes in our roster.

 

SJ

[Aethernitas]

Damn this thread is blowing up quick...

 

It's a nice hotchpotch of ideas and many are reasonable but some of those proposed changes are broken beyond reason and imo very obviously so. I would go so far as to say that they would make our Spiritual Liege blush...

 

I was writing up some of the gems but I decided against it. If you still want examples just ask.

 

Yeah I know. I mean, I'd probably drop the changes to our special rules, and like psi-grenades (I almost never use psk-out anyway). I'm just so bored watching 'Blessings' and 'Conjuration' powers being essentially undeniable. 'Aegis' only helps against Witchfires and Maledictions, which most armies aren't using anyway. 

 

Did you have any issues with the weapon changes? I feel like psilencer still needs a buff, it doesn't work as intended currently. I suppose Ionic is a bit much, but that's originally  what psycannon did (ignore invul saves). Moving our unique weapons onto our vehicles seemed like a logical step though. FW is the only place it's currently done, and it's massively overpriced in both cases (Doomglaive is like 200pts and worse in every way than a DK, the psycannon Razorback is absurdly overpriced).

 

Hehe yeah the Über-'Deny the Witch' was the one I had the biggest grudge with. I think it's a consious design-decision of GW though to make things like blessings and conjurations more reliable and against most armies witchfires are not really of worse then any other power seeing as long as you don't target enemy psykers.

 

The weapon changes are much more reasonable though I'd still argue that poison 4+ AND assault on psilencers is too much. The Incinerator and the Psycannon are perfectly fine. I would rather give the purgators something to be able to move and fire (like a psychic power for relentless or SaP) and make Psilencers and Psycannons cheaper for Strikes and Purifiers. That alone would make Purgators more viable and distinct in their role from Strikes and Purifiers.

 

I totally agree that our vehicles should also use our special weapons in some form but that didn't happen because a extra sprue would be needed.

 

More later, not enough time now :\

[Gentlemanloser]

TL Psycannon Razorbacks at a minimum.

[Deamon Wolf]

the thing is why do we only have 3 special ranged weapons

our purgation squads should get access to 6 or 7 special weapons not just standard Grey Knight guns but have cheep heavy bolters and missile launchers or 10 pts Multi Melta's .make our purgation squad more viable by giving them a more complex armoury

3 types of ( admittedly awesome ) special range weapons is well lacking our purgation squads could be so much more and would be fielded more if the had more weapon options, ( also can we have the reroll cherub as well )

 

next question do we think a squad of dedicated mastery lvl 1 Libbys would be a good option for us ( see the libby formation in the next SM dex

or would that be a bit to op even for the Emperors finest?

 

Final Question

do we think a named HQ Deadknight is a god thing or bad thing

I like the Idea but im not sure if it would be Op or not

[Everon]

If the stats are the same but a few different tweaks with a price hike shouldn't be near op

 

I'll go through and edit first post with some ideas that are brought up and see how we can all agree on that. This far, safe to conclude were all unanimous that purgatory need a fix

[Aethernitas]

I'm ok if we center our posts around the first post as long as you keep it clean and remove the characters seeing as they break up the post too much. That way the thread shouldn't eat quite as much space as it does now if we only propose changes to the original post of Everon.

 

In general we should keep in mind what GW seems to avoid with GKs: They won't dilute the codex with anything not clad in silvery Aegis armour. They won't give us the same armory range as vanilla Marines. We are almost exclusively fighting daemons and chaos and leave the other threats to all the other SM chapters. Thus the unique weapons with no plasmaguns, melta etc. We either teleport in or drop transports and troops with Thunderhawks and Ravens. No drop pods and no tanks apart from transports. We don't siege or fight protracted battles.

Ok lets talk about your proposed changes Everon:

 

> army wide special rules

Keep most of them just like they are but change 'Rites of Teleportation' to choosing the turn to come in for every unit in DS reserve instead of rolling. In addition I would propose to either keep the run and shoot or make them able to charge with the drawback of halfing the charge distance or subtracting a fixed amount of inches. I shy away from reducing the scatter as that can either be accomplished with a broader locator beacon use (see strikes further down) and gives a nice synergy with the Inquisition and Servo Skulls. Also the possible combination of scatter-reduction plus charge from DS reserves would be too powerful on a single unit.

 

> Paladins
Those changes are quite redonkulous. Making them 10 points cheaper, giving them 4++ and up them to T5 or EW is just bat:cuss crazy. Sorry but a unit like that justifies a point tag thats closer to 70 points than freaking 45. I would argue giving them Sanctuary as fixed power and making them 50 points instead of 55 would already fix them quite nicely. As an alternative you could allow them to take storm shields (in a general GK upgrade sprue) but that would mean no Sanctuary for GKs anymore.

 

> Psilencers

They are already very viable in some matchups as many GK players here can confirm which means they would only need a minor tweak. Upping the shots by 66% is not minor. The same goes for making it assault and poison (special RD mention). Something in between would be the sweetspot.

 

> Psybolt ammunition

I think people should finally let this go. Especially if it is realized as another niche rule against daemons and psykers. I'm perfectly fine with normal Storm Bolter. Those are already pretty darn awesome.

 

> Dreadnoughts

Yes to librarian Dreadnoughts with psychic powers that make sense. If any chapter should get librarian Dreadnoughts it should be us.

 

> Brotherhood Champion

Has to become cheaper and get the option to get personal teleporter like any IC's in power armor.

 

> Purgator Squad

A second fixed psychic power granting 'Slow and Purposeful' or 'Relentless' would be all that is needed to fix them. Alternatively a psychic power that gives ignore cover but seeing as they can take Incinerators I'd gravitate towards the first option.

 

> Strike Squads

Keep them as they are but with slightly reduced point cost. 18 should suffice. Give them the option for locator beacons. That in combination with the new army wide special rule to decide when the reserves come in instead of rolling for it should make them perfectly fluffy and viable without any huge special rule shenanigans.

 

 

Concerning new units I would propose a upgrade sprue for all GKs to add some new options (whatever they may be) to individualie the different units. Something like a Prognosticar unit (the telepathic specialists that predict daemon incursions) would be cool even though they would have to ajust the fluff a little. Librarian Dread is a freaking given I would think. If we don't get a Shield option for all our units a dedicated shield unit would be cool - GK liberators - terminators with shields and some kind of Nemesis Weapon but specialized on defense. In the fluff they could be used to keep the daemon hordes in check or shield their brothers while those engage the main threat. Yes, I love the classic knight image with sword and shield for GKs :D

[Deamon Wolf]

so for the Liberators ( which I think is a really cool idea ) what would you recon rules wise something similar to the current rules of the Deathwing knights ( minus the +1T )

[Aethernitas]

so for the Liberators ( which I think is a really cool idea ) what would you recon rules wise something similar to the current rules of the Deathwing knights ( minus the +1T )

Well I guess you have to stick to the anti-daemon/chaos theme so they should use some kind of nemesis force weapons and right now there are no "special nemesis force weapons" and every unit uses one of the general variants.

The most fitting would be the wardings staves (sculpted to look more mace-like than the standard ones) which would already make them more resilient against psychic powers and arguably downgrade their melee capabilities against many targets (S6 but only AP4 which has the nice effect of making them effective against different units too) compared to other GK units.

From here on we have two possibilities - if Santuary is still a thing (I actually really like it) you could do something like give them smaller shields with 4++ or some kind of aegis amplifier that could look like a censer which ups their own terminator armour invul save to 4++ and grants a +1/+2 to any invul save (to a maximum of 2++ ofc) of a unit thats get shot through them instead of the standard 5+ cover save for a normal intervening unit. If Santuary is gone they could just get storm shields.

Something like the T5 if in base contact could also work. Obviously those are only options and I don't mean Liberators should do all of this - just throwing around some ideas here

[Aethernitas]

Mods please delete.
 

[thraxdown]

Paladins should be ML2.  Purge soul would probably be the best we could ask for.

 

I've always thought daemonbane should "rend" a daemon's invulnerable save.

 

A sweet formation that allows us to pass psychic powers on a 3+

[Everon]

Paladins should be ML2.  Purge soul would probably be the best we could ask for.

 

I've always thought daemonbane should "rend" a daemon's invulnerable save.

 

A sweet formation that allows us to pass psychic powers on a 3+

 

Paladins focus on martial prowess and take several tests based on that, not necessarily their pysker abilities. Thats for purifiers.