GK Wishlist?

[Everon]

I have updated the list as best I could to peoples thoughts, comments, ideas, and lack of hating idea of. Still working out an idea on said "Liberator" unit and a lower harness warp charge formation. These two things illude me for now.

[thraxdown]

 

Paladins should be ML2.  Purge soul would probably be the best we could ask for.

 

I've always thought daemonbane should "rend" a daemon's invulnerable save.

 

A sweet formation that allows us to pass psychic powers on a 3+

 

Paladins focus on martial prowess and take several tests based on that, not necessarily their pysker abilities. Thats for purifiers.

 

 

That's why I'd give them purge soul rather than the more powerful (overly so on a unit with deep strike) cleansing flame.   Sanctuary would make them more survivable, but dreadknights already get that.  Purge soul to me seems fair as no other non-hq comes with it, you get the extra WC and an okay psychic power for an over-costed unit.

[Aethernitas]

That's why I'd give them purge soul rather than the more powerful (overly so on a unit with deep strike) cleansing flame.   Sanctuary would make them more survivable, but dreadknights already get that.  Purge soul to me seems fair as no other non-hq comes with it, you get the extra WC and an okay psychic power for an over-costed unit.

 

Mastery level 2 is nothing to sneeze at and should most definitely not be given out lightly. Paladins use psychic powers like all other GKs too but they focus, like Everon said, on the martial aspects. Just give them Sanctuary and adjust their point cost and they are perfectly fine. I don't understand why the fact that NDKs also get Sanctuary should prevent Paladins from getting it too and the fluff for Paladins is that they are a kind of honour guard for the scriptors, brother-captains and grandmasters so fixed hammerhand and sanctuary would be in line with their fluff too.

[Shagah]

I like  a lot of what has been said here.

 

My personal feeling is that some minor adjustments (DS for PA/AA across the board, with something extra for Purgators on top of that, Paladins power increase or points decrease, Dreads bought in line with external meta, and increasing DS reliability) would cover most of the ills of the current codex, however to give some oomph for a new codex I like some of the ideas presented.

 

In particular more/resurrected named characters with models, Jet bikes, psychic power buff, and some cool formations.

 

Most people have mentioned characters, mostly with better ideas than I had so won't go into those except to say we should have a Librarian character, we are supposed to be the premier Human (you know what I mean) Psykers in the Galaxy apart from those one off freaks e.g. BA dude - never remember his name.  The Jet bikes however I think have a lot of room for exploration. 

They would be (almost) unique in the Empiriums(sp?) forces, and could be made fluffy by having them DS capable as well without the Eldar ability of moving in assault phase regardless.  They could also have some kind of ability against Flyers like being able to engage them in CC or something both making the cool against Daemon FMC but also useful against all flyers without the overkill Swooping Hawks are, therby giving us that missing tool. May not be a great tool, but it would be ours. Just an idea anyway.

Not sure what a psychic buff would look like, but there are certainly enough ideas above that something reasonable could be built from.

And again with the cool formations I think the above have hit a few that I think would be cool e.g. NDK formation, Purifier formation, Paladin/Heroes of Titan formation etc

 

Other minor things:

Bring back psybolts and make them +1 Str against Daemons and Psykers.  In fact any Psy weapon could get this.

Some kind of ability to get Storm Shields for some units/characters, having only one in the Chapter does seem silly.

And finally Orbital Strike. As many have said DS is our thing. We DS from Orbiting craft that sport armaments that can "lay waste to a city".  Yet once we have deployed, nada. Orbital Strikes should be "our thing" as well.  Personally this was one of the most annoying things that was removed from the current dex when compared to the last, mostly because removing it was so unnecessary and pointless, it was not as if it was OP, and it was so fluffy.

[Aethernitas]

I'm beeing the Party Pooper again.

 

[...]

 

*•Purgation squads. As it is, Night fighting is useless as their only special ability. Lore even shows that the standard space marine helmet can adjust vision to see in night vision, infrared, heat signatures etc. etc. To make the equivalent of a devastator except better due to their psychic ability enhancing them, night vision is completely wasted.

I recommend giving Purgators Slow and Purposeful, so that at least they being the heavy weapons team, are the only power armored unit not hindered by salvo rules.  Perhaps a stance situation like the brotherhood champion as well. For example, each turn they can choose between a twin linking stance, split fire, ignores cover or if they did not move, they can sky fire on ballistic skill 2 instead of snap shots, or choose interceptor as well. It makes them multifunctional and a real contention for a formation slot or just heavy support for a combined arms detachment.

or Relentless with ignores cover

 

[...]

 

Formations :

Vigilance of the Venerables :
When 3 Dreadnoughts of any kind are taken and are within 4" of one another, any one sanctuary casted by a dreadnought conveys a 5+ invulnerable on all dreadnoughts in the formation. All saves are re-rollable. In addition to this all units within 12" of the center Dreadnought have a standard +1 to their invulnerable save as well.

Formation :

3 Dreadnoughts or Venerable Dreadnoughts

Astral Aim :

When at least two Purgation squads are within 8 inchs of one another, they combine their psychic might to further enhance their abilities. All squads received +1 to their ballistic skill and may choose up to two stances per turn. All squads in this formation must share the same stances. gain twin linked rule.

Formation :

2-5 Purgation Squads

  ______________________________

 

Hammer and Anvil :

Special Rules :

Alpha Strike-

Select a designated primary unit. All models in this formation deep strike without scatter. In addition to this, all models in this formation may assault after they deep strike and gain the “Hammer of Wrath” rule.

Teleportation Flare –

All enemy models within 24 inches of the primary unit are temporarily blinded and can not over watch.

Formation:

2-3 Terminator Squads

1-2 Interceptor Squads

0-1 Brother Captain

0-1 Brotherhood Champion

_______________________________

 

*Purity of Fire :

For each additional Librarian or Purifier within 10 inches of Castellan Crowe, Cleansing flame can be granted one extra inch of distance with +1 strength and -1 ap.

 

Formation :

Castellan Crowe

2-4 Purifiers

0-2 Librarians

 

First of I wanted to clarify that I meant to give Purgation either Relentless/SaP or Ignores Cover, both on the same unit (apart from incinerators) seem too much of a push.

 

The formations look from too strong to "field this and you have won the game".

 

Vigilance of the Venerables

Let's start with too strong - the Dreadnought formation. You all remember the outcry when Eldar got their flyer formation with 4+ cover all the time and rerolls if they jink? Now imagine that but with a invul save and all you have to do is invest 2 warpcharges to get sanctuary off and then you got a 4++ rerollable invul save. And that is against units with AV12 and not the paper AV10 of the Eldar flyers. With the current Dreads that might not be so broken but with the new adjusted ones this is far too much bang for the buck you're paying - which is none apart from taking 3 Dreads.

 

Astral Aim

So let's go back to the Purgation squads. In this scenario they already have relentless and ignore cover. Now the formation gives us twin-linked and BS5 for the tax of a second squad of this monsters? Hell yeah! It's also broken, especially if we would get better delivery methods for those guys. Even without that you would have to adjust the point quite heavily and I don't think that would bode well seeing as they would still be PAGKs and die like a vanilla marine.

 

Purity of Fire

I guess you mean Purifier unit, right? Otherwise I won't even touch this. So if it is "each Purifier unit" with the current wording all you would need are two units Purifier, one with Crowe in it and you have a 11" inch bubble of fiery death with S7 and AP2. Sounds hilariously broken? Well - it is.

 

Hammer and Anvil

Ladies and gentleman we have a winner. This one takes the cake in sheer and utter brokenness. It could also read "if you field this you autowin". Even ignoring the blind and hammer of wrath part just the DS without scatter and charge thereafter will wreck DESTROY any army. You have a potential 6 (combat squads) TAGK and 4 PAGK units with whom you can shoot and charge whatever you want in the first or second turn. I can't even begin to express how far removed from anything remotely balanced that is. And for good measure they also get blind and Hammer of Wrath - for the games where the opponent would have a glimmer of hope... nah not going to happen anyway. I would advise to visualize this formation in action and maybe revisit it.

 

I like  a lot of what has been said here.

 

My personal feeling is that some minor adjustments (DS for PA/AA across the board, with something extra for Purgators on top of that, Paladins power increase or points decrease, Dreads bought in line with external meta, and increasing DS reliability) would cover most of the ills of the current codex, however to give some oomph for a new codex I like some of the ideas presented.

 

In particular more/resurrected named characters with models, Jet bikes, psychic power buff, and some cool formations.

 

Most people have mentioned characters, mostly with better ideas than I had so won't go into those except to say we should have a Librarian character, we are supposed to be the premier Human (you know what I mean) Psykers in the Galaxy apart from those one off freaks e.g. BA dude - never remember his name.  The Jet bikes however I think have a lot of room for exploration. 

They would be (almost) unique in the Empiriums(sp?) forces, and could be made fluffy by having them DS capable as well without the Eldar ability of moving in assault phase regardless.  They could also have some kind of ability against Flyers like being able to engage them in CC or something both making the cool against Daemon FMC but also useful against all flyers without the overkill Swooping Hawks are, therby giving us that missing tool. May not be a great tool, but it would be ours. Just an idea anyway.

Not sure what a psychic buff would look like, but there are certainly enough ideas above that something reasonable could be built from.

And again with the cool formations I think the above have hit a few that I think would be cool e.g. NDK formation, Purifier formation, Paladin/Heroes of Titan formation etc

 

Other minor things:

Bring back psybolts and make them +1 Str against Daemons and Psykers.  In fact any Psy weapon could get this.

Some kind of ability to get Storm Shields for some units/characters, having only one in the Chapter does seem silly.

And finally Orbital Strike. As many have said DS is our thing. We DS from Orbiting craft that sport armaments that can "lay waste to a city".  Yet once we have deployed, nada. Orbital Strikes should be "our thing" as well.  Personally this was one of the most annoying things that was removed from the current dex when compared to the last, mostly because removing it was so unnecessary and pointless, it was not as if it was OP, and it was so fluffy.

 

Jetbikes are most definitely not going to happen. One of the last know jetbikes in the whole Imperium is driven by the Ravenwing chiefhoncho and Dark Angels don't share. So apart from there beeing no jetbikes around anymore you have the other problem of why would GKs field Jetbikes? The whole deal with GKs is that they exactly know where they wanna go (thanks Prognosticars) and teleport into the heart of the enemies army to rip it out. Mostly by teleporting in (which is very safe for GKs since they have one of the most advancedteleport technology in the Imperium) and if that's not possible (because the area is hielded, warpstorms etc.) they use Storm Ravens and Thunderhawks to drop as close as possible to the target location and advance from there. Jetbikes seem a little out of place in this scenarios and just overloading them with special snowflake rules like "can cc flyers" or "can deep strike" won't help that either. Not a fan.

 

Why have another special rule only against daemons? Psybolts are nicely represented by preferred enemy daemons which is in most cases (against anything with T7 or less) more effective than +1S.

 

THe Storm Shields can only happen if Sanctuary goes and I'm pretty darn sure that is not going to happen with the Sanctic discipline beeing so widely available that it is printed in the BRB. I would love to see GKs with shields - they mimic classic knights in many other aspects why not the shield as an iconic part of the Knights? Yes they have they heraldic shiels on their should which is a nice touch but I would still prefer actual shields with rules attached. YYou have to think about the practical aspect too - for Storm Shields they would have to release an upgrade sprue.

 

GK Battle Barges are not really equipped for bombardments or void battles - they focus mostly on speed and resilience to react faster and more reliable to all the daemon incursions and sport impressive teleport arrays and anough room for Thunderhawks and other craft for rapid deployment. There is always a big risk involved firing something as inaccurate as a lance weapon into an area where GKs a currently fighting. We already had Orbital Bombardment but it was mostly tied to the Inquisition so I could see it happen but I don't think they would put it into the GK codex.

[Shadrach03]

I think it should be mentioned that discussions about what GW would do shouldn't have much of a place in this format. This is more or less fan made content that will have little if any impact on what direction GW takes with the army. Carry the discussion/project on because we enjoy it and try this stuff out with your friends because it might be fun to see how new rules or units play in house.

 

Also fluff is not concrete as GW has proven before. Keep with the spiritof the army but be flexible if it makes things fun.

[thraxdown]

 

 

That's why I'd give them purge soul rather than the more powerful (overly so on a unit with deep strike) cleansing flame. Sanctuary would make them more survivable, but dreadknights already get that. Purge soul to me seems fair as no other non-hq comes with it, you get the extra WC and an okay psychic power for an over-costed unit.

Mastery level 2 is nothing to sneeze at and should most definitely not be given out lightly. Paladins use psychic powers like all other GKs too but they focus, like Everon said, on the martial aspects. Just give them Sanctuary and adjust their point cost and they are perfectly fine. I don't understand why the fact that NDKs also get Sanctuary should prevent Paladins from getting it too and the fluff for Paladins is that they are a kind of honour guard for the scriptors, brother-captains and grandmasters so fixed hammerhand and sanctuary would be in line with their fluff too.

I don't consider ML2 on a 165pt unit giving out mastery levels lightly. Giving them purge soul spreads the different powers around the army. Purifiers get cleansing flame, dreadknights sanctuary and paladins purge soul. Paladins get ws5 to illustate their martial prowess.

[Everon]

 

First of I wanted to clarify that I meant to give Purgation either Relentless/SaP or Ignores Cover, both on the same unit (apart from incinerators) seem too much of a push.

 

The formations look from too strong to "field this and you have won the game".

 

Vigilance of the Venerables

Let's start with too strong - the Dreadnought formation. You all remember the outcry when Eldar got their flyer formation with 4+ cover all the time and rerolls if they jink? Now imagine that but with a invul save and all you have to do is invest 2 warpcharges to get sanctuary off and then you got a 4++ rerollable invul save. And that is against units with AV12 and not the paper AV10 of the Eldar flyers. With the current Dreads that might not be so broken but with the new adjusted ones this is far too much bang for the buck you're paying - which is none apart from taking 3 Dreads.

 

Astral Aim

So let's go back to the Purgation squads. In this scenario they already have relentless and ignore cover. Now the formation gives us twin-linked and BS5 for the tax of a second squad of this monsters? Hell yeah! It's also broken, especially if we would get better delivery methods for those guys. Even without that you would have to adjust the point quite heavily and I don't think that would bode well seeing as they would still be PAGKs and die like a vanilla marine.

 

Purity of Fire

I guess you mean Purifier unit, right? Otherwise I won't even touch this. So if it is "each Purifier unit" with the current wording all you would need are two units Purifier, one with Crowe in it and you have a 11" inch bubble of fiery death with S7 and AP2. Sounds hilariously broken? Well - it is.

 

Hammer and Anvil

Ladies and gentleman we have a winner. This one takes the cake in sheer and utter brokenness. It could also read "if you field this you autowin". Even ignoring the blind and hammer of wrath part just the DS without scatter and charge thereafter will wreck DESTROY any army. You have a potential 6 (combat squads) TAGK and 4 PAGK units with whom you can shoot and charge whatever you want in the first or second turn. I can't even begin to express how far removed from anything remotely balanced that is. And for good measure they also get blind and Hammer of Wrath - for the games where the opponent would have a glimmer of hope... nah not going to happen anyway. I would advise to visualize this formation in action and maybe revisit it.

 

With Astral aim, i forgot to remove the bs 5 part. Also with the Ignores cover and relentless, you did so or, i saw another post that said and. Its not all of what you want, but what i read as a combined majority. Thats how I'm updating it. If I misread something, sure I'll gladly change it.

 

Purity of Fire, yep. 11 inchs. No deepstirkes, have to stay in formation. If you can make that work, then i think you deserve for it to get off. Especially with how easy every one says it is to kill off PA, all you need is one squad dead and it all falls apart. Not to mention, to make this bubble at the size and strength your saying, that's at very least 675 points invested. For 675 points, I better be able to do get something.

 

Venerables.

Ok so dreadnoughts are rerollable 5++, your terminators get a 4++, and pa get a 6++.  Imperial Knights admantine lance gets 4++ rerollable and their ferkin knight titans with better av! And you have to be within 12" of the main dreadnought. So the other two are already eating up atleast 5" of that space. If you really want your whole army that close, plasma cannons are going to eat you alive, even with reroll. Gauss cannons and tesla will as well.. Shoot, every army will eat you alive. Especially if one dreadnaught with 5++ dies, and the formation breaks..  Is that really very op?

 

Hammer and Anvil.

Perhaps op, unless you think skyhammer is just fine, then nah wouldn't be that op. Not to mention, everything outside that 24" is fine, and Interceptor still works. If your whole army is within 24" when a table gives you at bare minimum 48" across then, your kinda setting yourself up to be hit. That and with what you say to be true, before you upgrade anything, or add any hqs at all your already at 1,430 points. On a 1500 point game, you get a quick alpha strike and a lot of bodies but your ds still scatters so you may not be in assault range and can still be wiped by things like fast moving eldar, necrons who can use decurion to out attrition your troops, interceptor tau, dark angels, blood angels on the same turn doing the exact samething to you, but get storm ravens to eat your units alive, and can use dreadnoughts in their formation as well. Also space marines who gravved your army to death the very next turn.

 

Still a instant win game over op for the price and risk?

[jeffersonian000]

The old GKT use to have Holocaust, and the current Paladins are the old GKT. They should have blast power, and Cleansing Flames is a better match than Vortex of Doom. Although, at 55ppm, Vortex and PML2 ain't too shabby.

 

SJ

[Deamon Wolf]

I have to say I do miss holocaust

[Shadrach03]

Bear with my here but I have something of an idea to get additional rules out there for our units while trying to keep from demanding a huge points increase or wondering why standard marines don't have anything similar.

 

Psychic Disciplines: In the players movement phase a  unit or model with this rule may once per game give up it's ability to generate warp charges for 1 game turn.  In turn the unit or model and any unit they are a part of gain the rules listed in their psychic discipline entry.

 

Psychic Mastery: A model with the psychic mastery rule will allow a unit that he has joined to generate their warp charge as normal while activating their psychic discipline rules.

 

feel free to comment as i haven't figured out good rules for everyone yet.

 

Strike Squad-Interceptor

 

Terminator Squad- tbd

 

Interceptors-May use their teleporters in the movement and assault phase.

 

Purgation Squad-Relentless

 

NDK-tbd

 

Purifiers-May run and assault in the same turn or maybe just fleet

 

Paladins-all shooting attacks are made against the unit are at -1 strength

 

Dreadnoughts-ignore glancing hits from shooting attacks

 

Techmarine-he and his unit gained twin-linked

 

All hq models (techmarine goes to elites) gain the psychic mastery rule

[Aethernitas]

Nevermind. I always interprete wishlisting as something that wants to predict positive changes that have a chance to actually come true. Most of the stuff in here is just dragged in by the head and shoulders. It is truly a listing of wishes but it tells more about the ones breathing the wish than it helps making the codex better ;)

[jeffersonian000]

Actually, mine are the kind of tweaks we've been seeing with the current round of updates, so I'd say that yes, mine are predictions/projections of positive change.

 

SJ