Olataro Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Hi guys, just wondering how the army"s new point cost has worked out for you. Personally, I play ravenwing but I notived that nor much has changed, and the detachments makes it a lot worse. At 1500 points, I'm fitting in Sammael Lvl2 librarian with conversion field Full Ravenwing command 2 full ravenwing attack squad, armed with melta, and melta attack bike, plus landspeeder typhoon with multi melta. Dark shroud Dark talon I know we can't really use the librarian on a bike now, but still, my friends don't mind as this is an obvious mistake on GW"s part. So. In my opinion this isn't much compared to what other armies can field, and we definitely gonna have a hard time against hell drakes with flamers and other cover save ignoring weapons. What do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 We always had a hard time against drakes with flamers, well right until they went almost extinct. I still haven't calculated points, because I actually waiting for the Codex to do it, but by my mental calculations I think I can fit in more stuff because cheaper termies, cheaper bikes, cheaper RWBK, cheaper Nephilim, dark talon.. and hey, if I go Battle company, free rhinos and pods. So all in all if we go for point costs alone since nothing went up but down instead then it affects in a positive way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 My new list has: Ezekiel A level 2 librarian (up from level 1) 2 darkshrouds It's really a no brainer not to take the darkshroud now, he's too useful and just changes whole parts of enemy army dynamics, denying even one overwatch attempt can mean a lot of guys make it into cc that otherwise wouldn't, whole units that might have at one time been used to soak up the overwatch are now adding to the damage that squad can cause locked in cc butting horns with the enemy. Using tau as the most prominent example if I charged my terminators at some fire warriors I'd get over watched by crisis suits, and stealth teams, and pathfinders, and etc etc and it would be rare for a squad of 6 terminators to make it to cc with less than half casualties, now I'm very likely to get all 6 in there, and if the darkshroud stays around I can do it again and again. I can steamroll across your gun lines like a tank and terminators can do what they do best unmolested by units that know only how to shoot. If you can't handle the shrouds, I think the best idea for your army will be to take mixed units now, blending close combat with range and that could effect lots of units like wolf guard, and stern guard, and so on and so forth. This could mean a lot of units that never saw the table because they'd be just shot off the board in rapid succession come back to the table like mutilators and slaneesh daemonettes, and cc terminators. It won't be easy to stop the darkshrouds from halting your overwatch and from reducing your shooting down before the charge happens during a shooting phase and i can see how the bof would of been broken in this mix, the dwcs would be a powerful Death Star when used in tandem with the darkshroud because the shroud has deepstrike, and few armies have a counter to a foe that is going to charge you at full combat strength and has to tools to kill you. I think that if games workshop continues this trend of using special rules and specialist units to prop up cc units on an army by army basis we could see us achieve the balance of shooting and close combat we desire. The orks got the ball rolling, the space wolves and blood Angels carried it down the field, and all we are waiting for is one army with a really good unit that can bet he catalyst for serious cc threats to break the barrier and return the balance. The skyhammer and darkshroud changes were close but not close enough. I think chaos marines will be where it happens, or the next dark eldar or ork codex. Maybe even daemons. Just gotta give them a really good catalyst unit with an obvious counter that forces shooting armies to change their structure from being all about shooting to having a solution for handling cc and cutting down on their number of guns on the field and the pendulum will begin to swing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhands Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 All I know is I will be saving points tonight when I take apart my second apothecary! One per army? golly gee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 We always had a hard time against drakes with flamers, well right until they went almost extinct. I still haven't calculated points, because I actually waiting for the Codex to do it, but by my mental calculations I think I can fit in more stuff because cheaper termies, cheaper bikes, cheaper RWBK, cheaper Nephilim, dark talon.. and hey, if I go Battle company, free rhinos and pods. So all in all if we go for point costs alone since nothing went up but down instead then it affects in a positive way. One problem I has was trying to fit in deathwing support. But I find it hard as the inclusion of the dark talon forces the Ravenwing formation to go into reserve. Also, there isn't a real way for us to take black knights in any other formation in the book except from the Ravenwing formation. Also in our current state, we are more vulnerable to helldrakes than ever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palin2222 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The new darkshroud is better, without a doubt, but i still feel it is too fragile and too easily killed to warrant a slot in my lists. That and I don't want to pay $70 for one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The new darkshroud is better, without a doubt, but i still feel it is too fragile and too easily killed to warrant a slot in my lists. That and I don't want to pay $70 for one.Shrugging off 89% of all shots that don't ignore cover is 'too fragile'? I'm one of the more vocal pessimists, but that's impressive. That also assumes the conservative interpretation of the Shrouded + Stealth RWSS debate. Otherwise you're drinking your opponent's tears on 97% of shots that don't ignore cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The new darkshroud is better, without a doubt, but i still feel it is too fragile and too easily killed to warrant a slot in my lists. That and I don't want to pay $70 for one.Shrugging off 89% of all shots that don't ignore cover is 'too fragile'? I'm one of the more vocal pessimists, but that's impressive. That also assumes the conservative interpretation of the Shrouded + Stealth RWSS debate. Otherwise you're drinking your opponent's tears on 97% of shots that don't ignore cover. Doesn't the Shroud already have a rerollable 2+ even without stealth? Stealth only helps the Shroud if it isn't jinking, which would then mean it's not rerollable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palin2222 Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 The new darkshroud is better, without a doubt, but i still feel it is too fragile and too easily killed to warrant a slot in my lists. That and I don't want to pay $70 for one.Shrugging off 89% of all shots that don't ignore cover is 'too fragile'? I'm one of the more vocal pessimists, but that's impressive. That also assumes the conservative interpretation of the Shrouded + Stealth RWSS debate. Otherwise you're drinking your opponent's tears on 97% of shots that don't ignore cover. There is a LOT of ignore cover in my meta. It is very rare to face an opponent that doesn't have a healthy supply of it. That is where my comment is coming from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saphrael Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Makes sense. Esecially since I got Stealth and Shrouded mixed up, the Dark Shroud has a natural 2+ jink save, so with the RR it ignores 97% of incomin shots. That sucks, no awesome RW for you Most of the 'ignores cover' weapons in my area are low strength, so I'm cool. No Tau or Eldar for me though, so that helps. Edit: Typos makes the world a worse place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I think that if you are going to really take advantage of the Ravenwing rule, you have to go all in. 1 full RWBSs combat squads into 3 units. If you take enough MSU you can overwhelm your oponents Ignores Cover targeting ability. If you are going Ravenwing MSU then take the Darkshroud. If you are going for a more even build I think the Vengeance is better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 I find it hard to fit deathwing in. Aby suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 How did you fit DW before? What has changed so much now that even points costs are down for some units? What has changed so much in that you can't still use a CAD and put in DW? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Deathwing got cheaper. You aren't required to take Belial and another IC in TDA can be done for less points. With the formation, you can take a Ven Dread and a Pod as a required choice. That is way cheaper than any TDA equipped unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 Phew just played a match against ultramarines. I ran the Ravenwing list but, wow. It was tough. I was nearly boardwiped from skyhammer on turn 1. Sammael managed to come in, but Th/Ss terminators crushed the rw command squad. It was a close match, and he won in the end. I feel that his army had a better advantage than me, especially with the doctrines. Those are nasty...... Overall nt bad. Our ravenwing rules are good but hmmm, makes you ponder whether or not we could have been better, especially with less bikes on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Did you run the RWSS. I've been curious as to how well the Interceptor will work against Skyhammer. Skyhammer needs to go away. Those rules are stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 One thing I felt was that our cost was a bit higher than our SM counterparts. RWSS? No I didn't. May I know what it he restriction placed upon this formation? Any minimum number of landscaper I have to take? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 One thing I felt was that our cost was a bit higher than our SM counterparts. RWSS? No I didn't. May I know what it he restriction placed upon this formation? Any minimum number of landscaper I have to take? 3 Landspeeders of any configuration and a Vengeance or Darkshroud. I'm not sure how well this will work in practice though. Only the Vengeance has a turret, so it might be a challenge to get all of those guns on target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted June 27, 2015 Author Share Posted June 27, 2015 Looks like a heavy point cost. And you will be jinking a lot....so......not sure.how good is this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RayJ Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I started playing at 3000 points, so I can fit in all sorts of toys. I'm working on pairing some of my ideas down into the 2000 point range. I think a support squadron in a lion's blade detachment is going to be extremely potent. Outside the support squadron, I'd probably buy most of my RW in the Strike Force as you get to tailor the units to your liking a lot more, especially if your friends let you use any bike IC for the Detachment.I feel for smaller games the unit flexibility of the Strike Forces is great, but if you're gonna be getting 2 DWT squads anyway, then buying them as auxiliary for the Lion's Blade is incredible.I was running a force under the 6th Edition book at 1850 with no unit duplications using Azrael & Ezekiel in a CAD (usually mixed in to the RWCS). It will be harder to afford them with the new detachments, so sometimes a CAD will still be warranted, but the 3 Detachments we got can get you similar "battle force" armies with the same or better synergy to what I had previously for similar points and probably more bodies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhands Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Ran the support squad against my daughters nids today. Killed two carnefex as they tried to charge. When it works it's brutal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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