cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 I have been doing Imperial fists as my army of choice in 40k for many years, and when I heard about the Horus Heresy I patiently awaited their release. Whilst waiting I manipulated some of my friends by forcing them to look at the HH stuff and they slowly got into it. Now we have a large group of people ready to do it and showing a good deal of interest. However despite how much I protested they decided to use 1k pts (I wanted more). I have hit a brick wall, I have almost got a list I am happy with it just needs some finishing touches. HQ (165) legion praetor - 165 + solarite gauntlet, iron halo, digi lasers Rite of war - stone gauntlet. Troops (470) 10 man breacher squad - 235 + nuncio vox 11 man breacher squad - 235 Elites (365) dredereo - 185 3x Thudd gun raiers - 180 Total - 1000pts on the dot. My group is playing loyalists against traitors, the traitors so far are using flyers and cat-termies. There is no AV 14 that I know of but 16 S8 shots with sunder should be enough to destroy anything short of a flare shielded Spartan. Any feedback will be appreciated. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 1000 points is veeeeery rough to get Legion Flavour in there... Just quick-like, I'd keep both Breacher Squads at 10 men with Vexillas. An 11 man Squad with No vexilla means that the extra marine is worthless if they break. Probably swap the Preator for a Vigilator since you pretty much have a Gunline Army. Other than that? Points Ceiling is the limiting factor in getting any Legion Flavour in there. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4103995 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 can I ask what the bonus for a vigilator would be? I have had a few people recommend him but I cant really see anything about him that makes me want to take him? downgrading the praetor a bit or replacing him with a consul would give me enough to have the vexilla and vox in the list. I wanted the nuncio vox for more accurate Thudd gun bombardments. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104037 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Vigilator is basically THE shooty consul having Sniper as part of his Profile and Scout. He also has Access to Specialist Ammunition and can perform a Sabotage attack before the game starts for some potential pre-game damage. From 1D4chan: Vigilator: Vigilators are awesome, Captain-sized spy-scouts. They grant Scout to attached units, and if you downgrade their Power armor to Scout armor, they also gain Infiltrate and Move through Cover. They have special issue ammo and the Sniper special rule (so your Rapid fire Small blast Tempest rounds always wound on at least a 4+ and are AP2 on a To Wound of 6, or take advantage of Precision shot and snipe that apothecary with a Shred+Rend Scorpius round), and get a pre-game Sabotage attack of D6 S5 AP6 hits (that always targets the weakest facing on a vehicle) on a 2+. Make sure to wear your best troll-face when you get First Blood in the deployment phase. You dont see him as much in most lists since they tend to have large Shooting Blobs that dont really need him and most HQ's being used as either Army Buffers or Beatsticks that ride around in a DeathTaxi. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104065 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Unfortunately I am more of a typical player that prefers either a beat stick or army buff character. So I am not a huge fan of a vigilator , I am essentially spending 85 pts on a slightly beefed up seeker. Here is a revised list HQ (105) Master of signal - 105 Troops (350) Tactical squad + vexilla and power fist Tactical squad + vexilla and power fist Elites (545) Dredereo -185 3x Thudd gun rapiers - 180 3x Thudd gun rapiers - 180 The same amount of boots on the ground but more artillery (which is always good!). On a side note just to double check, if my master of signal can see the target of a barrage i get to subtract the BS of the artillery don't I? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104096 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Master of Signal is a Support Officer. Cant be compulsory. A Vigilator can still be equipped as a Beatstick Character since he can take any non-terminator Legion Gear and still has a Consul Profile. With IF Rules, he's still re-rolling to hit in a Challenge. The upside is, is that he can still shoot pretty dang good. His only restrictions are Bikes and Terminator Armor which he cant take, iirc. And if you want a Beatstick HQ, you need a CC unit and an Accompanying Transport. In 30k, these usually take up ~600+ Points out of a List. For Buffers, you need the right units to be buffed. Since your armies shooting is mostly Bolter Fire, a Master of Signal will only really benefit the Quad Mortars since most everything else will already by BS5 and BS6 is barely any better. And since the Mortars are BS4, the +1BS isn't that great. If it was a Squad of Culverins who pump our Significantly more shots, then your MoS would be justified. As it is, right now, all he's good for is the Orbital Bombardment since hes more of a backline Support HQ. And even then he can only affect One Thudd Gun Squad. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Okay so the same as above but remove the power fists on the tac squad and give one a nuncio vox. Then make the signal master a vigilator w/ artificer armour a jump pack and a power fist. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104163 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 No need to give the Vigilator a Jump Pack, really. Just shove him into a Tac Squad and scout them Forward. Sending him out on his own with the JP means he'll get instagibbed. Instead, give him: Artificer Armor, Boarding Shield/Refractor Field and a Power Fist. That way he has an Invulnerable Save and Charge Deterrent with Defensive Grenades. And since a JP is ~20pts and A Boarding Shield is only 10, you still have enough points left over to keep the Power Fist on the Tac Sarge. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104173 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Sounds good, only one question. I have the crusade army list book, and I can't see it noted that there are any support consuls. Nor can I see several things mentioned in some forum posts for example the triple shot rule for las vindicators. Do I have the wrong book or is it in FAQ? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104184 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Sounds good, only one question. I have the crusade army list book, and I can't see it noted that there are any support consuls. Nor can I see several things mentioned in some forum posts for example the triple shot rule for las vindicators. Do I have the wrong book or is it in FAQ? Its in the FAQ at the Download Section on Forgeworld Website. The Affected HQs are: MoS, Libby, Primus and Praevian(separate Entry/File) for future Reference. Las Vindicators Rules are found in Tempest. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104188 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thought so, a bad rookie mistake on my part. I was thinking it would be a good idea to drop a Thudd gun to give my tacs ccw's and a couple extra guys Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104194 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Thought so, a bad rookie mistake on my part. I was thinking it would be a good idea to drop a Thudd gun to give my tacs ccw's and a couple extra guys Could Work, or cut both Rapier Squads to 2 each and use the points freed up that way to fill out the squads; maybe even get apothecaries. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104200 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 Apothecaries seem like a waste for a ten man squad tactical squad Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104202 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Apothecaries seem like a waste for a ten man squad tactical squad Never Underestimate FNP, especially when Ap3 Weapons rear their ugly heads. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104205 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 So the final list is HQ (120) Vigilator - 120 + artificer armour, solarite gauntlet and boarding shield. Troops (395) 15 man tactical squad - 235 + chainswords, Melta bomb 10 man tactical squad - 160 + nuncio Elites (485) 3x Thudd guns 2x Thudd guns Dredereo Total - 1k pts Edit: replace two marines in the big squad with the special missile launcher for the dredereo. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104230 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 Looks good to me; just remember to use your vigilators pre-game special attack! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104262 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 And as the quote from 4chan says, apply my best troll face. But seriously thanks for the help. In fact I have one more off topic question to ask, what is your opinion of form in comparison with the other primarchs? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104275 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 They serve to exemplify the stereotypical image we have of the legions. There is no real way to compare them since they affect armies in different ways and show a predisposition to a certain type of play. The easiest way to compare them is their combat ability since its the easiest to guage but it doesnt paint a fair, representative picture of what theyre capable of. If you want to add a Primarch first ask: does what he bring fit the style of play my list is after? Any other answer but yes means that you might be better off with something else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104327 Share on other sites More sharing options...
cassian dracos Posted June 26, 2015 Author Share Posted June 26, 2015 That is an interesting view, however in games where you can just fit your primarch in, the most beneficial part of the primarchs is his combat abilities. Unfortunately however in that respect I believe Dorn too be at the very bottom of the pile. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104411 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted June 26, 2015 Share Posted June 26, 2015 That is an interesting view, however in games where you can just fit your primarch in, the most beneficial part of the primarchs is his combat abilities. Unfortunately however in that respect I believe Dorn too be at the very bottom of the pile. If your using a Primarch that isn't Angron and the only thing they bring to the Table is CC beat down, then you aren't using them to their fullest and your points limit might be too low. Like I said, they're supposed to emphasize the Stereotypical way the Legion is supposed to be played. The only reason their CC beasts is that they're Primarchs and have access to the best gear available in the Imperium. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310134-just-the-norm-1k-imperial-fists-help-needed/#findComment-4104515 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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