notmattlythgoe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I know he is. And he has all of the same rules that apply to Deathwing (Fearless and Hatred - chaos SM). What he doesn't have is fearless and hatred tied up under the DW special rule which would allow him to be taken in the Deathwing formations. True. Apologies, I misread what you had posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tygwyn Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I agree with your WYSIWYG comment. I also try to have as much as I can WYSIWYG, but I am not going to double the size of my RW collection just to have every possible combination of special and heavy weapons for every squad. The main thing I try to avoid is having the same looking model count as more than one thing. So while I have one attack bike modeled with a Heavy Bolter, I either run my attack bikes as all Multi-meltas or all Heavy Bolters or that one as a HB and the others a MM. I never run these flamers are plasma, and those flamers are melta. And I do model all of my bike squads carrying special weapons, but at some point levels I don't buy them for the squad. (I just say they are out of ammo) I like the models to look cool, but be functional at any point level. Magnetise! I have a family to feed and don't much like rolling on the Perils of the Wife table, so lots of magnets are far cheaper (and easier to paint...) than lots of models! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkn3ssF4lls Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I agree with your WYSIWYG comment. I also try to have as much as I can WYSIWYG, but I am not going to double the size of my RW collection just to have every possible combination of special and heavy weapons for every squad. The main thing I try to avoid is having the same looking model count as more than one thing. So while I have one attack bike modeled with a Heavy Bolter, I either run my attack bikes as all Multi-meltas or all Heavy Bolters or that one as a HB and the others a MM. I never run these flamers are plasma, and those flamers are melta. And I do model all of my bike squads carrying special weapons, but at some point levels I don't buy them for the squad. (I just say they are out of ammo) I like the models to look cool, but be functional at any point level. Magnetise! I have a family to feed and don't much like rolling on the Perils of the Wife table, so lots of magnets are far cheaper (and easier to paint...) than lots of models! Perils of the Wife table, what happens when you roll a six ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ValourousHeart Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yeah, I guess my modeling skills are not that strong, as I have never been happy with the way the magnetic weapons sit on the models. I guess I am lucky, my wife is ok with my hobbie as long as I keep playing, painting, and don't have to many boxes of unassembled models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 I agree with your WYSIWYG comment. I also try to have as much as I can WYSIWYG, but I am not going to double the size of my RW collection just to have every possible combination of special and heavy weapons for every squad. The main thing I try to avoid is having the same looking model count as more than one thing. So while I have one attack bike modeled with a Heavy Bolter, I either run my attack bikes as all Multi-meltas or all Heavy Bolters or that one as a HB and the others a MM. I never run these flamers are plasma, and those flamers are melta. And I do model all of my bike squads carrying special weapons, but at some point levels I don't buy them for the squad. (I just say they are out of ammo) I like the models to look cool, but be functional at any point level. Magnetise! I have a family to feed and don't much like rolling on the Perils of the Wife table, so lots of magnets are far cheaper (and easier to paint...) than lots of models! Perils of the Wife table, what happens when you roll a six ? Dismissive indifference towards the hobby? As for magnetizing, I'll pass on infantry, too many bits. Besides I have some loadouts that work for me. I just find a way to differentiate the models. Rerail plug here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Funny you mention the Dark Vengeance expansion. That expansion went from being junk to actually being really good. It's a great deal for what you're getting and it creates a really well-rounded army. Believe it or not I may pick up 2 of them! As for Ravenwing, I've always considered myself a heavy Ravenwing player with Greenwing on the side. Here's what my 7th edition list looks like, a modified version of a previous 1850 list I used to run with our last book: RW Strike Force: Sammael Command Squad 4x RW Bike Squads Darktalon Oathsworn Detachment: Knight Errant Ravenwing Support Squadron Formation: 4x Speeders 1 Darkshroud The previous version of this list was really good to me in the last edition, and nothing has made it worse in the new book. Bikes have gotten cheaper and they've had rules added. I left out the details because there's some flexibility on who I'm up against (no need for tons of melta if you're going against Orks for instance). But this is going to be my core RW list more or less. I may end up dropping a RW Bike Squad and a speeder to form an attack formation for the grav guns, that way they are hitting on 2s with their grav guns. The only thing that makes it difficult is the Darktalon being forced to start in reserve, which means that it'll basically just be the Knight and the Support Squadron, even then there would be the whole mess of conferring scout since the Darkshroud has it but the speeders do not. Either way I'm looking very forward to trying this in the future. I think anyone who is starting a RW list needs at least 3 full RW Bike Squads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. If you're only going by the organization in the Codex then we should have 0 Librarians in power armor since they are all in the Deathwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. If you're only going by the organization in the Codex then we should have 0 Librarians in power armor since they are all in the Deathwing. Not true, Veterans and Company Masters are deathwing, and we have PA veterans and Company Masters. Just because they belong to the deathwing doesn't follow that they're all terminators, they're the veterans, we just usually think of Termies when we think deathwing, since they're the most frequently used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. This is not completely true. Ravenwing and Master of Sanctity both show Sammael having a Librarian in his personal Command Squad. They also depict ten Terminators in a Land Raider Crusader and a variety of other sins against lore and rules. They're enjoyable enough reads, but I stopped counting the number of transgressions early into the second book. We cannot use the ramblings of Gav Thorpe to justify anything in-game. If you're only going by the organization in the Codex then we should have 0 Librarians in power armor since they are all in the Deathwing. Not true, Veterans and Company Masters are deathwing, and we have PA veterans and Company Masters. Just because they belong to the deathwing doesn't follow that they're all terminators, they're the veterans, we just usually think of Termies when we think deathwing, since they're the most frequently used. According to the codex, Veterans are pulled from in their own companies so that would not be true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The best way to think about it is that our first company wears only TDA. All first company are deathwing, but not all deathwing are first company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The best way to think about it is that our first company wears only TDA. All first company are deathwing, but not all deathwing are first company. Has the removal of the Inner Circle rule confused us now? Deathwing = First Company Inner Circle = People in the know Company Masters were once Deathwing because they are pulled from the Deathwing Knights. If they are not in the First Company they are not Deathwing. I think the fact that they replaced the Inner Circle rule with the Deathwing rule has now clouded all of this. Or have I just gone crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I was referring to the way the special rule works. Giving all inner circle the deathwing special rule has obviously created confusion. I gave an oversimplification, but for those not indoctrinated into the fluff it's less confusing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 There has always been overlap between the Deathwing, the Deathwing and the Inner Circle. It caused confusion 15 years ago in 3rd ed and clearly still does so today. Possibly enough to warrant its own topic. So, about those Ravenwing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yes, about that Ravenwing. Is the new scared standard worth taking? I don't know the rules for it offhand, I've read them before, and while it's not the dakka banner, it seemed ok. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 The only benefit the sacred standard gives to the RW is counterattack as they're already relentless. The RW banner is still good though, as auto-passing H&R is still pretty great, even if it isn't a bubble anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
notmattlythgoe Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Yes, about that Ravenwing. Is the new scared standard worth taking? I don't know the rules for it offhand, I've read them before, and while it's not the dakka banner, it seemed ok. Thoughts? For Ravenwing it seems useless since they are already relentless. The Chapter Standard seems much better for Ravenwing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Chapter standard grants re-rolls on failed morale, pinning, and fear tests, and gives +1 attack within 12 inches right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicHat Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Chapter standard grants re-rolls on failed morale, pinning, and fear tests, and gives +1 attack within 12 inches right? Re-roll to failed morale, pinning and fear (lol) tests within 12", and +1A to the unit carrying the banner. For a moment you made me think that banner was ridiculously awesome, shame on you. Only the Greenwing squad can take it though, so it is not particularly impressive IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoic Raptor Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you're only going by the organization in the Codex then we should have 0 Librarians in power armor since they are all in the Deathwing. Not according to the Codex I bought last week. All the Librarians are members of the Librarius (Ezekiel, 4 Epistolaries, 8 Codiciers, 8 Lexicanums and 4 Acolytum). Not a single company mentions a Librarian as part of its organization, let alone the First. Don't mistake the name of a rule for membership in a given company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagicHat Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you're only going by the organization in the Codex then we should have 0 Librarians in power armor since they are all in the Deathwing. Not according to the Codex I bought last week. All the Librarians are members of the Librarius (Ezekiel, 4 Epistolaries, 8 Codiciers, 8 Lexicanums and 4 Acolytum). Not a single company mentions a Librarian as part of its organization, let alone the First. Don't mistake the name of a rule for membership in a given company. Page 19 have all the Librarians in the Deathwing box, page 17 shows them as part of the Deathwing, while the page for the Ravenwing and Greenwing have no librarians on page 15 and 13. Which is a bit silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ulrik_Ironfist Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Chapter standard grants re-rolls on failed morale, pinning, and fear tests, and gives +1 attack within 12 inches right? Re-roll to failed morale, pinning and fear (lol) tests within 12", and +1A to the unit carrying the banner. For a moment you made me think that banner was ridiculously awesome, shame on you. Only the Greenwing squad can take it though, so it is not particularly impressive IMO. Damn! No wolf standard style shenanigans... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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