Why my DW is sitting on the shelf. (Not a Rant)

[Corrupted]

I'm not trying to start a DW sucks rant. I've read a lot of comments that people 'can't fit in DW anymore' and a lot of responses of 'what are you talking about they're CHEAPER NOW'. So here's my reasoning why I can't fit or justify DW anymore.

 

CAD, elite slot competition, we no longer have 6 troops slots to play with for DW now it's 3 elite slots. Every list I write, by the end is getting loaded up with 6 man RW command squads in order to free up FA slots for shrouds. This leaves little to no room for terminators.

 

DW detachment, currently unplayable without an 'on the table' portion of your army. That on the table portion is probably going to be small as DW isn't cheap and has to survive a turn one salvo by itself. Against some armies, no big deal, vs others...

 

DW formation, not a bad option but getting rid of turn one DS hurts (especially when other marine formations now have it) and it's a rather bulky formation requiring a 500 point entrance fee, I think HQ requirement is a bit much on a formation.

 

It's not so much 'I can't fit the points in', its more of  'I can't find a place for DW in my army'. They no longer seem to be a unique solution to any given problem. Before they were an awesome alternative to tac marines and scouts and  DW Knights were an 'I need that gone button'.

 

So for anyone that included a few units of shooty DWT as elites in the last codex, and didn't rely on DWA to put them on the table turn one, the new DW is all positives for you.  For me the loss of turn one DWA combined with the loss of DWT troops coupled with the (in my opinion) lack luster DW Detachment / Formation is going to leave my termies on the shelf for a while. 

[aura_enchanted]

My terminators are staying right where they are, if anything I'll be using more terminators soon enough. It's clear games workshop wants us to use the blade or the CAD. They dislike monowings

[JJD]

My terminators are staying right where they are, if anything I'll be using more terminators soon enough. It's clear games workshop wants us to use the blade or the CAD. They dislike monowings

I don't think it's just mono wing I don't think they want you to run mono codex. The further we get into 7th the clearer it is that GW see the imperium as one army

[WellSpokenMan]

I wish there had been a DW equivalent to the RWSS or RWAS.  I wouldn't mind adding in DWKs or a Ven Dread, but 2 elites and an HQ is just too many points.

[Elios Harg]

I agree, they definitely screwed the pooch on putting a usable DW formation in the Lion's Blade. Meanwhile, the RW got 3 formations all of which are small enough to fit in easily.

 

Honestly, since 7th edition, Deathwing have been inferior when compared to their RW counterparts due to lack of mobility. Now that they tend to compete more directly for slots, it is an even more apparent imbalance.

 

However, that said. I think dual-wing lists with combinations of the RWSF, RWAS, or RWSS mixed with the DWSF are far superior than they have ever been due to the new interplay between these formations. I plan to run some combos that rely on a staged assault with guaranteed reserves on certain turns to see how they work out. The come in any turn you want on the fly aspect of the DWSF seems to have a lot of potential.

[HsojVvad]

How do I say this without being an ass. "Grow a set". Please bear with me. I am sick and tired of a lot of these posts on the internet right now. Since you didn't really explain yourself, I am not sure how you play. Since all I see is a lot of whining, I take this, as "I can't win with my plastic toy soldiers."

 

Play Unbound. All Deathwing.

 

No minis on the table, means I auto loose? What the hell is wrong with asking people to ignore that rule or at least house rule it for that rules doesn't exist for turn one and maybe turn 2? Maybe house rule some terminators can walk on the board or be placed on the board on turn one and ignore the rule they must be placed in reserves. 

 

So much can be done by you but since you didn't explain yourself you are coming out as whining just like a lot of other people on the internet. 

 

So why can't you play unbound?

 

Why can't you play with house rules as I suggested?

 

"Oh they don't allow this in tourneys." you may say. Well you didn't say that. So exactly what is your problem then? After all you are a grown up, I believe. I guess you could be a teenager. All I can say is grow up, and play with your man toys. You have lots of options for how to play them. All you whined about is some ways you can't play them. Right now I can't agree with you. You CHOOSE to be upset. You CHOOSE to not play. Why? Why will you not adapt?

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of you say. Then again there is a lot of what you didn't say either that makes you whiney and childish. 

 

Sorry if I am coming out an an arse. Just sick and tired of Dark Angel players giving us a bad name as whiney babies because they didn't get their way. You have options. Why not even try using them? It can be fun. Don't even try, just mathammer your way to be miserable and not enjoy something that you like.

 

All I can say is, try it first. At least have 5-10 games before saying what you do. After all you are not talking with proof but just guess work/mathammer. 

 

Try it. You just may like it. 

[Elios Harg]

I think, people have a legit complaint about the all DW options. They are superior to previous versions of Deathwing when used in conjunction with the rest of the codex. However, they are hard on list building and limited in even including all of Deathwing's options. If the HQ had been optional and it only required 1 terminator squad, the DWRF would have been much easier to use.

 

Frankly, for many people unbound and house rules are not options as they either play in tournaments, leagues or other organized play that does not allow such things or they mostly play pick up games with strangers/acquaintances at the game store and do not want to ask permission to break the rules or if the other person is ok with playing against an unbound list.

 

I will point out that the Unrelenting Hunt is actually a decent foundation for a balanced list that includes Deathwing (assuming the Ravenwing Attack Squadron requirement doesn't break it). It only really grants relentless to the tactical squad, librarian and master as a bonus, but relentless grav tacs (does anyone even play chaos marines anymore?) are actually pretty awesome now, so that's not a bad thing. It even includes black knights and a dark talon. So pretty solid formation all around.

[Frater Cornelius]

DW was never a pure list for me. They lack manpower and ranged power. They are the excellent Anvil to your bikes and that is how I want to play them. Tough hard hitting dudes that take the abuse in a Land Raider and on foot after the first charge.

[deadangel101]

Honestly pure Deathwing has never worked really well, and I play pure Deathwing. Terminators lost a lot of their punch when they lost armor save on 2d6. Ever since they have struggled as anything more than a small elite unit. I'm probably going to go mixed wing now, just because I've gotten tired of loosing games and struggling. And that has been in the casual setting too. I wouldn't dream of taking a Deathwing army to a tournament. I would be laughed right out the door.

[Stormxlr]

How do I say this without being an ass. "Grow a set". Please bear with me. I am sick and tired of a lot of these posts on the internet right now. Since you didn't really explain yourself, I am not sure how you play. Since all I see is a lot of whining, I take this, as "I can't win with my plastic toy soldiers."

 

Play Unbound. All Deathwing.

 

No minis on the table, means I auto loose? What the hell is wrong with asking people to ignore that rule or at least house rule it for that rules doesn't exist for turn one and maybe turn 2? Maybe house rule some terminators can walk on the board or be placed on the board on turn one and ignore the rule they must be placed in reserves. 

 

So much can be done by you but since you didn't explain yourself you are coming out as whining just like a lot of other people on the internet. 

 

So why can't you play unbound?

 

Why can't you play with house rules as I suggested?

 

"Oh they don't allow this in tourneys." you may say. Well you didn't say that. So exactly what is your problem then? After all you are a grown up, I believe. I guess you could be a teenager. All I can say is grow up, and play with your man toys. You have lots of options for how to play them. All you whined about is some ways you can't play them. Right now I can't agree with you. You CHOOSE to be upset. You CHOOSE to not play. Why? Why will you not adapt?

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of you say. Then again there is a lot of what you didn't say either that makes you whiney and childish. 

 

Sorry if I am coming out an an arse. Just sick and tired of Dark Angel players giving us a bad name as whiney babies because they didn't get their way. You have options. Why not even try using them? It can be fun. Don't even try, just mathammer your way to be miserable and not enjoy something that you like.

 

All I can say is, try it first. At least have 5-10 games before saying what you do. After all you are not talking with proof but just guess work/mathammer. 

 

Try it. You just may like it. 

But you sir do sound like an ass.

 

I started 40k in 6th edition with Deathwing and I have nothing but Deathwing units in my collection. Nearly 3000 points of them to be precise,

Terminators Dreads and LRs ( a lot of FW variants) almost all painted to a good standard. The point is in 6th edition pure Deathwing was a legal army just by taking a 190 point tax of Belial which is fine since I love the model and he did very well for me overall in games.

 

Now with the new codex by RAW im left with no army to play literally its an auto loose army or nearly. I can go to the club tell the person im going to play him with my DW, wait for him to deploy then shake his hand and say thanks for a good game. All they needed to do is let Belial keep DWT as troops simple as that. SM bike captains can take bikers as troops with ObjSec, why cant we? Especially why cant Ravenwing do it too.

 

There is a reason why DA players complain, because we are treated like some third rate worthless step child of C:SM ( which can ds no problem turn 1) by GW. Look for yourself the codex is ridden with errors and inconsistencies.

 

Sure I got a choice to play unbound, or keep on running 6th ed Deathwing, or take a formation and take some unbound dreads/LRs.

But the problem is  why should I jump through loops and hoops to play with my toys LEGALLY by the rules.

It just shows lack of care and zero play testing and its just bad business practice.

 

 

Also DW lost heavy slots so How can I field my FW LR variants or Deredeo?

[Frater Cornelius]

 

[...]

 

There is a reason why DA players complain, because we are treated like some third rate worthless step child of C:SM ( which can ds no problem turn 1) by GW. Look for yourself the codex is ridden with errors and inconsistencies.

 

[...]

 

 

After that book I am surprised you can say that with a straight face. What if the current book did not have mono wing in mind? The synergies between wings are better and can be executed much more smoothly now. I think the loss of one mono wing was a small price to pay for the improvements we have gotten. I do not mean to sound like an ass towards DW players. However, remember that for every sad DW player there is at least one multi-wing player that is crying tears of joy.

All I am saying is that taking one piece out of context and pointing it out is not a good way to judge any product.

[Corrupted]

How do I say this without being an ass. "Grow a set". Please bear with me. I am sick and tired of a lot of these posts on the internet right now. Since you didn't really explain yourself, I am not sure how you play. Since all I see is a lot of whining, I take this, as "I can't win with my plastic toy soldiers."

 

Play Unbound. All Deathwing.

 

No minis on the table, means I auto loose? What the hell is wrong with asking people to ignore that rule or at least house rule it for that rules doesn't exist for turn one and maybe turn 2? Maybe house rule some terminators can walk on the board or be placed on the board on turn one and ignore the rule they must be placed in reserves. 

 

So much can be done by you but since you didn't explain yourself you are coming out as whining just like a lot of other people on the internet. 

 

So why can't you play unbound?

 

Why can't you play with house rules as I suggested?

 

"Oh they don't allow this in tourneys." you may say. Well you didn't say that. So exactly what is your problem then? After all you are a grown up, I believe. I guess you could be a teenager. All I can say is grow up, and play with your man toys. You have lots of options for how to play them. All you whined about is some ways you can't play them. Right now I can't agree with you. You CHOOSE to be upset. You CHOOSE to not play. Why? Why will you not adapt?

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of you say. Then again there is a lot of what you didn't say either that makes you whiney and childish. 

 

Sorry if I am coming out an an arse. Just sick and tired of Dark Angel players giving us a bad name as whiney babies because they didn't get their way. You have options. Why not even try using them? It can be fun. Don't even try, just mathammer your way to be miserable and not enjoy something that you like.

 

All I can say is, try it first. At least have 5-10 games before saying what you do. After all you are not talking with proof but just guess work/mathammer. 

 

Try it. You just may like it. 

 

Leaving out, "Grow a set" would have been a good start.

 

And I thought I did a good job not making a whiney rant. I'm not OMG RAGE QUITTING Dark Angels, I'm a little annoyed that GW made my already underpowered terminators less powerful / un-useable on their own (With the rules set forth in the codex). I'd like it if GW devoted the same time and effort that went into Eldar and Space Marines, into Dark Angels.

 

This book leaps and bounds above the last. Ravenwing, especially Black Knights (my favorite DA unit since they came out) are amazing, though I still don't know how to deal with Heldrakes. DW took a punch in the gut though, so when I'm writing lists, I don't find myself including them.

 

Again, I DON'T FIND MYSELF INCLUDING DW IN MY INITIAL LISTS. I'm not saying they suck, I'm not quitting the game and I'm not whining, I'm just giving my logic on why DW isn't making the cut for my, and many others, army lists. I don't need house rules, and many people, myself included, think unbound is a ridiculous, BS, cop out, to good rules writing. But again I don't need it, because I still have an awesome, better than before, Dark Angels army that just has more black and no white anymore. (I actually play guardians of the covenant so all my dudes are red and silver.)

[Corrupted]

My terminators are staying right where they are, if anything I'll be using more terminators soon enough. It's clear games workshop wants us to use the blade or the CAD. They dislike monowings

How do you plan on using them? What squad configurations in what kind of army, and do you plan on using the detachment or formation? 

[Stormxlr]

 

 

[...]

 

There is a reason why DA players complain, because we are treated like some third rate worthless step child of C:SM ( which can ds no problem turn 1) by GW. Look for yourself the codex is ridden with errors and inconsistencies.

 

[...]

 

 

After that book I am surprised you can say that with a straight face. What if the current book did not have mono wing in mind? The synergies between wings are better and can be executed much more smoothly now. I think the loss of one mono wing was a small price to pay for the improvements we have gotten. I do not mean to sound like an ass towards DW players. However, remember that for every sad DW player there is at least one multi-wing player that is crying tears of joy.

All I am saying is that taking one piece out of context and pointing it out is not a good way to judge any product.

 

I am not saying with a straight face, im saying it with a face of contempt.

GW could have made the synergies better without disowning my whole army and making it illegal to play without begging someone to let me play it using 6th ed, unbound or houserulling it.

In the end the money talks and players opinions are worth nothing to them.

  And I am not taking out one piece of the product, the product for me was Deathwing and DEATHWING ALONE. Its as if you are buying a house and 1/3rd of the house is bombed out ruins that you cant even step on without setting of a land mine.

Also there are plenty of other problems with the dex that are thoroughly covered in countless other threads.

 

 

 

My terminators are staying right where they are, if anything I'll be using more terminators soon enough. It's clear games workshop wants us to use the blade or the CAD. They dislike monowings

How do you plan on using them? What squad configurations in what kind of army, and do you plan on using the detachment or formation? 

 

One way to do it, is take DW formations or Detachment and take unbound LRs and Dreadnoughts and their FW variants. This is probably how I will play it.

Run a Redemption force with 2 Mortis Dreadnoughts on the board turn 1. Pray to Emperor for protection and hope your av12 wont blow up turn 1,

[Frater Cornelius]

^You are only willing to see your own point. In that case, tough luck. Go play Grey Knights or something.

[Dillithium]

Ravenwing has four new formations/strike forces, Deathwing only has two, which are crippled by forced deepstrike rulings.

It's right there people, Deathwing isn't done and over with, but GW has shown who their favorites are with this codex. I'm assuming a RW force earns GW more money.

[HsojVvad]

 

How do I say this without being an ass. "Grow a set". Please bear with me. I am sick and tired of a lot of these posts on the internet right now. Since you didn't really explain yourself, I am not sure how you play. Since all I see is a lot of whining, I take this, as "I can't win with my plastic toy soldiers."

 

Play Unbound. All Deathwing.

 

No minis on the table, means I auto loose? What the hell is wrong with asking people to ignore that rule or at least house rule it for that rules doesn't exist for turn one and maybe turn 2? Maybe house rule some terminators can walk on the board or be placed on the board on turn one and ignore the rule they must be placed in reserves. 

 

So much can be done by you but since you didn't explain yourself you are coming out as whining just like a lot of other people on the internet. 

 

So why can't you play unbound?

 

Why can't you play with house rules as I suggested?

 

"Oh they don't allow this in tourneys." you may say. Well you didn't say that. So exactly what is your problem then? After all you are a grown up, I believe. I guess you could be a teenager. All I can say is grow up, and play with your man toys. You have lots of options for how to play them. All you whined about is some ways you can't play them. Right now I can't agree with you. You CHOOSE to be upset. You CHOOSE to not play. Why? Why will you not adapt?

 

 

 

I agree with a lot of you say. Then again there is a lot of what you didn't say either that makes you whiney and childish. 

 

Sorry if I am coming out an an arse. Just sick and tired of Dark Angel players giving us a bad name as whiney babies because they didn't get their way. You have options. Why not even try using them? It can be fun. Don't even try, just mathammer your way to be miserable and not enjoy something that you like.

 

All I can say is, try it first. At least have 5-10 games before saying what you do. After all you are not talking with proof but just guess work/mathammer. 

 

Try it. You just may like it. 

 

Leaving out, "Grow a set" would have been a good start.

 

And I thought I did a good job not making a whiney rant. I'm not OMG RAGE QUITTING Dark Angels, I'm a little annoyed that GW made my already underpowered terminators less powerful / un-useable on their own (With the rules set forth in the codex). I'd like it if GW devoted the same time and effort that went into Eldar and Space Marines, into Dark Angels.

 

This book leaps and bounds above the last. Ravenwing, especially Black Knights (my favorite DA unit since they came out) are amazing, though I still don't know how to deal with Heldrakes. DW took a punch in the gut though, so when I'm writing lists, I don't find myself including them.

 

Again, I DON'T FIND MYSELF INCLUDING DW IN MY INITIAL LISTS. I'm not saying they suck, I'm not quitting the game and I'm not whining, I'm just giving my logic on why DW isn't making the cut for my, and many others, army lists. I don't need house rules, and many people, myself included, think unbound is a ridiculous, BS, cop out, to good rules writing. But again I don't need it, because I still have an awesome, better than before, Dark Angels army that just has more black and no white anymore. (I actually play guardians of the covenant so all my dudes are red and silver.)

 

 

Correct, I should have left out "grow a set", but seeing so many kinds of these posts, I just got tired of reading these over and over again for the last few days. It wasn't aimed at you per say, just the kind of posts that are keep coming up. Then again seeing "This is why my DW is sitting on the shelf" could have been left out as well. 

 

Yes you really didn't come out as "whining" after reading it again,  (which I should have done before replying, so my apologies there my friend) on the other hand you didn't really explain why either. Yes I know, this being the internet we all like to make quick to the point comments, but a lot of times, without the care taken to explain your self they can be seen as a whine, especially when reading about 50 of them in the last 3 days. 

 

Now back to the "This is why my DW is sitting on the shelf". You are stating something without even trying it. Yes you can't just run 100% Deathwing terminators, that sucks for those who want to play that way, but to not even try and use Deathing terminators in how you can now,  just comes out as whining in the end. While you have written you post eloquently in the end it's a whine. Why? Because it's opinion and not fact. It's not fact because there is no proof. 

 

At least try it and see if you have fun. If you don't have fun with your Deathwing terminators then they can sit on the shelf and then you will be correct. But to say they are sitting on the shelf before you take them off the shelf and try to play with them, is a whine in the end. No matter how well eloquently you say it. 

 

As for good rules writing, why are you complaing? After all you are playing 7th edition. You are accepting 7th edition. You say it's BS cop out to good rules writing but yet again, you are still playing, supporting the game. You are still buying BS cop out writing material.  So again you are accepting it. To complain (you are not complaining, you are discussing, but for the sake of my argument when you say 'others') about poor rules writing but yet still play it and picking and choosing how to play it just seems like whining in the end. 

 

So for most people who are adamant about this and are whining (not you, since you are discussing but again others) it just seems foolish to me to complain about something but yet still play the game without trying other alternatives. 

 

Again, I say try it out first. Yes it sucks you can't play the way you want. Yes it sucks GW can't edit, and has sloppy writing (3 Ravenwing HQ rule) etc, but we accept it. We keep playing 40K. We keep supporting 40K. So in the end we have to accept what GW does. We are given what we are given. So now it's up to us on how to use them. 

 

So try the alternatives first. After all if the alternatives are not for you, then why keep playing and supporting GW?

 

Just remember a lot of people love to play pure Deathwing. A lot of these people are just as upset. I am sure a few of these people will be having a blast playing their Deathwing even though they can't play it 'pure'. So if they can enjoy and have a blast playing them, it's not so bad then after all. 

 

I do hope you find the rest of the codex enjoyable and you still leave a blast playing Dark Angels. I hate to see anyone not have fun when playing. 

[Corrupted]

I have tried it out, the leaked codex has been out for a week, and unbound (not 7th edition in its entirety) is a total cop out on writing balanced rules. And yes I wanted to make a post brief enough that people would actually read it.

 

I can't be the only one out there that sat down to write a new CAD list and one by one plucked out DW squads in favor of Black Knight squads to free up FA slots for Dark Shrouds.

[HsojVvad]

I have tried it out, the leaked codex has been out for a week, and unbound (not 7th edition in its entirety) is a total cop out on writing balanced rules. And yes I wanted to make a post brief enough that people would actually read it.

 

I can't be the only one out there that sat down to write a new CAD list and one by one plucked out DW squads in favor of Black Knight squads to free up FA slots for Dark Shrouds.

 

Fair enough my friend. I don't recall you saying that you did try it out. 

[Stormxlr]

^You are only willing to see your own point. In that case, tough luck. Go play Grey Knights or something.

Never did I not agree with your point of view, I actually said yes you are right, but why do we have to sacrifice something ? You are the one who stuck to your own point of view. If one third of the book is broken and the other parts of it are filled with errors does it not make it a bad product?

 

Ravenwing has four new formations/strike forces, Deathwing only has two, which are crippled by forced deepstrike rulings.

It's right there people, Deathwing isn't done and over with, but GW has shown who their favorites are with this codex. I'm assuming a RW force earns GW more money.

Well of course, like I said money talks and runs and does everything else.

at 1850 fully kitted out competitive list  (6th ed sm book vs 6th ed DA book ) you can take ~55 white scar bikers with grav guns and attack bikes with multi meltas and a captain on the bike. ( oh hey look a foc swapping ability... I wonder why... oh yes coz bikes are expensive, you can spam them. wonder why they are one of the best units in the game) vs 30 Terminators with FNP Banner and Belial, 2xcml, 2x plascan, 2x AC. Almost double the number of models, and more than double amount of wounds. SMs also can run termie only list now and no one is blinking an eye about that. Its nice for them but it was our thing to run all terminators that DS turn one, now we lost it and SM got it.

 

Just remember a lot of people love to play pure Deathwing. A lot of these people are just as upset. I am sure a few of these people will be having a blast playing their Deathwing even though they can't play it 'pure'. So if they can enjoy and have a blast playing them, it's not so bad then after all. 

 

Find me a system that holds all my model collection true and I will be playing it. Fluff was the reason I got into 40k same as most other people, we did not know what we are getting into until it was too late and we have thousands of "insert local currency" invested.

 

And no none of us are accepting cop out bad rule writing, we just dont have a choice.

 

I will keep on playing my Deathwing and enjoying it in one way or another, they still are my models that I spent 3 years collecting, painting and giving personal character to.

[Corrupted]

I'm also hoping for more users like StormXLR to post up idea on how to use DW within the confines of this new codex. Honestly, how are people including DW in their lists?

 

Quick edit, I don't fault players for using the unbound rules, I fault GW for writing them.

[aura_enchanted]

 

My terminators are staying right where they are, if anything I'll be using more terminators soon enough. It's clear games workshop wants us to use the blade or the CAD. They dislike monowings

I don't think it's just mono wing I don't think they want you to run mono codex. The further we get into 7th the clearer it is that GW see the imperium as one army

Three squads, maybe a dread once and a while replacing one of my three hq choices, two tda commanders. And once that's done I might swap one squad out with some Knights. My list is in the army lists sub for 2500 it's quite plug n play.

[HsojVvad]

 

 

Just remember a lot of people love to play pure Deathwing. A lot of these people are just as upset. I am sure a few of these people will be having a blast playing their Deathwing even though they can't play it 'pure'. So if they can enjoy and have a blast playing them, it's not so bad then after all. 

 

Find me a system that holds all my model collection true and I will be playing it. Fluff was the reason I got into 40k same as most other people, we did not know what we are getting into until it was too late and we have thousands of "insert local currency" invested.

 

And no none of us are accepting cop out bad rule writing, we just dont have a choice.

 

I will keep on playing my Deathwing and enjoying it in one way or another, they still are my models that I spent 3 years collecting, painting and giving personal character to.

 

 

Find you a system where you can use all you models and collection true?

 

Warhammer 40K.

 

 

Thing is for what ever reason, us Nerds and Geeks have a hard time accepting rules. The rules even say change what you don't like. Again for what ever reason we can't agree to choose so. For what ever reason we cry and complain but yet not leave and go onto other systems.

 

Rules say play like you want. Take away what you don't like. Add to what you do like. 

 

For Nerds and Geeks we sure know how to rile on Games-Workshop and say they can't make rules. We seem so smart on how rules are suppose to be but yet can't we can't make good rules. 

 

40K lets us play as we want. We just have a hard time agreeing to changes for reasons. 

 

I am not trying to disagree with you. Sorry if I came out that way, I really am. I am just trying to show that there is other ways to play. 

 

Yes it's a co-op out of "Play any way you want." Then again that is the best rule because as humans who can think for ourselves should be able to talk to another human and explain why something is fun or not.