Frater Cornelius Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I know I am crazy, but I am seriously considering a Land Raider Crusader in my competitive list. I usually shun it, because it eats up far too many points and dies in T1. Well, theoretically. I never actually managed to destroy a Land Raider T1, but that may be because I never really face any. Why am I considering one? I am running Greenwing + Ravenwing. Those builds usually have good capping prowess with Tacs, Scouts and Pods and good pressure with Black Knights and Bikes. However, I am not a big fan of MSU. Apart from Black Knights, nothing has good enough staying power to stay around and kicking for longer than 2-3 turns. BK will be too busy messing up the front lines to pull double duty as anvil as well. I also lack problem-solvers. Something that can run into a Seer Council, a Thunderwolf mob or similar and clean up. That role is usually taken by an Imperial Knight. However, I can not always play one (Germany, ho!). My plan is to take Ezekiel + DWCS with Sergeant and two other guys with TH/SS, one Apothecary and one guy either with TH/SS or Claws. The fourth guy would also carry the DW Banner. Stick them in a LRC with MM and point them at the nearest enemy. Ezekiel is also a decent force multiplier, giving RWBK and Sammy an extra attack and he can shut down the enemy (of buff Rage) with Interromancy. Xenos do not really frighten me here. Necrons and Tau need to get close before then can do anything. At that point it will be too late or the BK have removed the problem already. Eldar also need to b close, unless they play a Dual-WC WK (which is fairly rare as most are moving to the Sword/Board combo to counter Grav). The thing bothering me is SM Melta Alpha Strike. I can stick the LR in a ruin. With the DS it will have a 3+ cover save, but a decent chance to get immobilized. Other than that, I can effectively bubble wrap it with the BK and DS to prevent Melta range and get a 4+ cover save against everything else. The alternative in my Knight-less lists would simply be a unit of Scouts on Objective duty MSU Bikes and Trikes and a Int.Chap. on bike with Mace of Redemption and Shroud of Heroes going on solo duty. My 'standard' units include two units of RWBK, Sammy, 20 Tacs in Pods, one empty Pod and a Dark Shroud. You think it is worth it at 1850 for those times where I can not take a Knight (and at 2500pts games where I can take both the IK and the LR combo), or am I better served with MSU? On a final note, I dislike MSU, but I can live with it in the end. Any opinions are welcome Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310206-land-raider-in-high-end-play/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
IanSturrock Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I would probably add a heavy flamer / chainfist dude. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310206-land-raider-in-high-end-play/#findComment-4105533 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 Chainfists are a bit of a waste. If 20 s8 ap2 attacks aren't killing something then it's AV14 (which they can kill,but it will likely take 2 turns), or you have bigger issues going on. My only issue is that if Zeke I inside the LRC, then he's not casting much. I suppose he should be outside by turn 2 or 3, but it is a concern. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310206-land-raider-in-high-end-play/#findComment-4105640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Immer, I'm not afraid to run three crusaders at 1850...oh, wait, that's illegal now! Seriously, though, I was running 16 termies (including belial) in three crusaders running as a pack with a techmarine-toted PFG giving all three deathwing vehicles a stupid level of survivability...and having 16 termies step out and charge under the overwatch of six hurri-bolters and three TLACs, well, it was surprisingly effective for such a low model count list. The key was identifying the critical unit in the enemy's order of battle and deleting it on turn two (actually, I would frequently kill or maul 4-5 units on turn two...one each with three different thundernator squads, and one or two with the tanks' shooting). In your case...no, I wouldn't do it. One land raider is going to be too easy for most people to deal with, especially without deathwing vehicle and a 4++. I might be tempted to continue to run a trio under the new codex, but since that would mean playing unbound, blech! But certainly not just one... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310206-land-raider-in-high-end-play/#findComment-4105823 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 Good point about the Chain Fist. The only one this would matter against is an Imperial Knight. While I am all for punching one, the Stomp is too risky. Still, worth considering. Thanks. @ march10k - Well, technically a single Raider is easier to protect in the early game. In the late game it is just another bullet sponge and objective sitter. As mentioned, Grav Cannon spam is the one thing that can potentially break it through a bubvle wrap and 4+ cover. My concern is more whether the offensive output of that combo is good enough to include. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310206-land-raider-in-high-end-play/#findComment-4106004 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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