Berzul Posted June 27, 2015 Share Posted June 27, 2015 I've been a fan of GW over DW and RW since I started playing. Deathwing and Ravenwing are almost always in my army lists, but I do prefer armies based around lots of Tactical Marines. So, of course that I am thrilled about the Demi Company and Battle Company formations. I already had lots of devastators, tactical squads, and some dreadnoughts, ready to go and form up. But the assault squads are a hard thing to approach. You need to take one of this squads as a required unit, and I'm not sure what the best way to use them is. When I first started playing, I was drawn to the assault squads even if just by the coolness factor. Say what you will, I think they look great. But I was quickly adviced against using them, in favour for Ravenwing Attack Squadrons. So they acumulated dust. Being cold and logical, there really was no good reason to use them over more bikers (even the *free* drop pod with flamers idea wasn't enough to convince me entirely). But now? Now you HAVE to take 'em. So, the question I always had postponed, came back in force: How should you use the assault squad? So far I've always had a Ravenwing Attack Squadron, be it a stand alone unit or a combat squad, of a Sgt. with melta bombs and 2 meat shields without special anything, to scout, turbo boost and outflank the enemy, and go after tanks and vehicles. I used to even give them a Librarian with a PFG, but that is no longer a possibility. Even so, this 3 biker unit with melta bombs always worked wonders for me (they gave me a victory over a Tau friend just last night by taking out a very well covered Hammerhead that was laying waste to my infantry). I started thinking: What if I gave an Assault Squad some melta bombs and sent them to do that job, instead? So far I see three big pros: 1) 5 man squads have 2 wounds over a 3 biker squad 2) Deepstrike can be more effective than outflank at times 3) Can maneuver better across some forms of terrain, taking advantage of altitude over distance But I also see some cons: 1) No jink cover saves 2) Toughness 4 instead of 5 3) The chance for reserve rolls to go bad for you 4) 5 Assault Marines with jump packs and melta bombs costs 90 points, which is 10 whole points more than a Ravenwing Squad with the same loadout The cons outweight the pros. With that in mind, what other uses could there be? Maybe the dual flamer drop pod loadout? Well, with the rule for trading jump packs for a drop pod gone, a 2 flamer unit on a drop pod costs 115, not 95. Thats a whole 20 points more than before, which makes it kinda steep. Also, in that sense, you could, for 85 points, use a 3 bike squad with 2 flamers, and go after that infantry with a Ravenwing Squad. An alternative that has all of the aformentioned pros, and also costs 30 points less than its Jump Infantry counterpart. Working this ideas, what I ended up with was the notion of how to use a RW Squadron, instead of ideas on how to use an Assault Squad (6 bikes, 2 flamers, melta bombs, plus attack bike with multi melta and a LS with 2xHB, so you can combat squad them and use the 2 flamers to hunt infantry, the Sgt with melta and the Attack Bike for tank hunting, and the LS to support either with 6 HB shots, or a good 6 shots to get that +1BS to the attack bike) I still think that going for a 90 point melta bomber unit may be the way to go, since you NEED to include them anyway. Or does this forced unit mean you should just give into their cons and embrace them as a Close Comabt unit; dedicate the points for a 10 man squad with 3 plasma pistols and go fight something? anything? They would be better at it than 10 Tactical Marines... What are your thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FarFromSam Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 dude, you're missing two HUGE, (did you hear me? HUGE) pros. 1) They are cheaper, MUCH cheaper, 11 points without packs if you want the free drop pod from dual demi company, or 8 points cheaper with packs. 2) Objective secured. Now that ravenwiing have no way of filling this role, assualt marines are they only way to get Ob sec, and fast in the same unit... CHEAPER. Assault marines have become awesome in with the new formation. Remember, you don't have to upgrade them. Keep em cheap, versatile, and supported by other units. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 28, 2015 Author Share Posted June 28, 2015 I had not considered Objective Secured. That is a very good point. They would need to be able to stand to other units in a contest for an objective though. I'm thinking getting a 10-man squad with some plasma pistols or flamers would be a good idea for that, then. But, the free drop pod required a full battle company... which means it is only good on very high points games. I'm not saying its not a pro for the squad. I'm just pointing out that you can only really benefit from it when playing games at 2000 points or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Delivery method for a beatstick company master: Jump pack, mace, artificer armor, and digital weapons...oh, and they're objective secured. Just run away from 2+ saves, and you'll monkey-stomp anything with carapace armor or worse, and the master will crush anything in power armor. They suffer from "oh, but there are enemies out there who have better melee units," but that's backward thinking. Hit the shooty stuff and shoot the hitty stuff. Assault marines aren't intended to go toe to toe with terminators, they're intended to get in the face of shooty stuff, charge in to tie them down in melee, and win. They don't have to have TH/SS to be effective melee units. But, the free drop pod required a full battle company... which means it is only good on very high points games. I'm not saying its not a pro for the squad. I'm just pointing out that you can only really benefit from it when playing games at 2000 points or more. Not really...70 points a squad times ten squads is 700 points...plus a chaplain and a company master, you're still well under a thousand points. You can get a halfway decent "full" company for under 1200 points. Throw in ten free razorbacks, and by the time you get to 1850, you have 2400 points worth of stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 I use assault marines frequently. I give them an Interigator Chaplain and I use them to bully weaker units. I usually run them in 10 man squads too. I've been pretty successful with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkangeldentist Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 The demi company gives us a reason to field assault marines thanks to objective secured and although we don't really give them anything regular marines can't do better that's not the same as them being bad with us. I've quite liked assault squads when I've fielded Greenwing lists in the past. They make decent to good counter-charge units or objective grabbers and the number of attacks they bring should be respected. With options now for eviscerators as well they've got a bit more going for them than before. Ravenwing are still superior in general thanks to...well a lot of things to be honest but an assault squad is a good unit when led a chaplain, or better interrogator chaplain. A company master or librarian can be good (Deathwing rule granting hatred can make them situationally hit far above expectations when led by a DA character) and they provide a comforting number of bodies to shield our characters from getting sniped though focused fire. Inevitably my assault marines were a followup unit. Either supporting a flanking manoeuvre backing up Ravenwing or counter charger against foes you made it to my main lines. Combat squads makes taking a full unit flexible for objective grabbing adding those extra few attacks needed to swing a combat your way. With the new book I'm more likely to include them than before and a demi-company gives them a great bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corrupted Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 They can be fun for messing up back line objective campers with two flamers and a combi flamer in a pod. I think their biggest con is taking up a now incredibly valuable FA slot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeamonQC Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Flamers, in drop pod (more accurate than DS and they can arrive T1) with a meltabomb on the sargeant. Perfect to deal with Tau Pathfinders (your Ravenwing hate them) and tank camping behind aegis like (I'm looking at you IG). Taken into the context of a demi-company this is a good way to use them. They will die a lot but they will also take some shooting away from the rest of your army because most opponents can't afford to not deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlamingDeth Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Full 10 man squad with flamers. They can deal with hordes and act as chaff for someone who can do some real damage, I prefer a pf/lc company master. No vet sergeant, give him a meltabomb to keep him cheap to eat challenges. Toying with the idea of adding eviscerators for some versatility and so that someone else can get a few wounds on hard targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted June 28, 2015 Share Posted June 28, 2015 Flamers, in drop pod (more accurate than DS and they can arrive T1) with a meltabomb on the sargeant. Perfect to deal with Tau Pathfinders (your Ravenwing hate them) and tank camping behind aegis like (I'm looking at you IG). Taken into the context of a demi-company this is a good way to use them. They will die a lot but they will also take some shooting away from the rest of your army because most opponents can't afford to not deal with them. This is pretty close to how I will run mine, except the sgt will also have a combi-flamer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 After reading all of your ideas and comments, Im currently assembling a 5 man squad with 2 flamers, to serve as retinue to a Company Master with Jump Pack and the Mace of Redemption. There are some good ideas and points you guys gave, that I hadnt evaluated to theur full potential. Im expecting this squad to be a valued addition to my Demi Company. Ill try to get sone pictures for you when they are done. Thanks for all your opinions and suggestions, guys!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mika_angelus Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I use a six or seven men squad with two flamers and a chaplain with additional power axe (SM can't do that! ) in my Demi. They are not the best unit in the world, but with chaplain and the flamers they can win a combat or two, and objective secured is quite a big think for this unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffJedi Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Yes, with bolt pistols, flamers, hammer of wrath and int 4 you can hurt squads with low int, low numbers, such as wolf riders with thunder hammers and storm shields. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I usually keep mine hiding at the back of my lines, with a Chaplain or Interrogator-Chaplain, ready to swing into action against any deep striking nastiness or anything that tries to break through my line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I've been using mine bare bones except 2 flamers. I tried juicing up the Sarg once to a Vet with Powersword. It worked alright, but in vanilla with jump packs and 2 flamers this is a great Objective grabber. Someone does the old 'let me park my cheap garbage on an objective' and that's a prime target for this squad. ObSec is massive on this squad with Jump packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plasmaspam Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 10 marines, two flamers, power sword and melta bombs on the sarge. Normally combat squadded, the sarge accompanies my jump pack and melta bomb toting Chaplain, whilst the two flamers team up with a jump-Librarian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Also, let's not forget access to eviscerators. Should you field them with jump packs, you can pack a punch against both melee and armor. A 5 man squad with a flamer, eviscerator, and melta bomb runs 115pts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prot Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 Sorry, at their current price point I will probably never field an Eviscerator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark_Master Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 10 man with 2 x flamers Vet Sgt with Combi flamer and Lightning Claw & Melta bombs. DM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 10 man with 2 x flamers Vet Sgt with Combi flamer and Lightning Claw & Melta bombs. DM Wow that is a lot of points on the Sgt. Has that played out well for you? My last few games have shown me that, tempting as it may be, upgrades on the sgts., can easily become a bad investment. ... But, then again, I still keep a vet sgt with a powerfist in my frontline tactical squad, even if he hardly ever sees melee combat, so what do I know XD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 5 or 10 men. 2 flamers, sgt with combi flamer. Burn them, then assault them, take objective, rince and repeat until assaults are dead or enemy is dead. That is how legends are forged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twopounder Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'm rolling 2x 5 man units with 2 flamers in each without jump packs and free razorbacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 In a DC I'd probably run a Chappy with a JP, and 5 JP ASM with 2 Flamers and a Meltabomb. It's a flexible unit that should find something worth killing. It's still a relatively poor unit , so I wouldn't spend too much on it. Those points would be better spent elsewhere imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disciple of Caliban Sgt Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I go whole hog. Plasma pistols for all my friends, 10 man squad power weapon and melta bombs. Great retinue for my Int. Chappy or Chapter Master. Use them down a flank and very rarely does anyone pay attention to them enough to do damage and then the eat up half their army. Used once as a counter attack force attacked at 10 man nob with big mek and doc. Wiped the whole unit and the Chappy smoked the Mek. Lucy rolls admittedly and not much survived but they tore through the nobz quite well. Anyway ever since they are my perfect PA retinue for my Chapter Master nowadays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belfast Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Sorry, at their current price point I will probably never field an Eviscerator. While I completely understand the sentiment, if your meta switches to double demi company for all the free transports, having a mobile unit for transport popping may become mandatory if you play double demi as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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