Darkn3ssF4lls Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 So I'm trying to figure this out, you drop the stasis bomb (and in formation) each model takes a leadership test. Is it their leadership or the units leadership, say you drop it on a tactical squad containing a independent character for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhands Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 If a model hit by the bomb suffers an unsaved wound it must pass an initiative test or be removed. Obviously if it only has one wound it will probably be off the table ( feel no pain or reanimation protocols might save it ) Roll d6. If it is more than initiative (which has been reduced by 3!) It is removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 If the model passed RP or FnP, the wound will have been saved, so no Initiative check needed. This is only relevant against multiwound models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkn3ssF4lls Posted June 29, 2015 Author Share Posted June 29, 2015 I wasn't referring to the wounds gents, I was referring to so its a blast right ? So it comes in the direction it came from. So boom you fail a wound and it's a troop, is it his leadership or the independent character in the units leadership or the sergeant for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isual Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 I wasn't referring to the wounds gents, I was referring to so its a blast right ? So it comes in the direction it came from. So boom you fail a wound and it's a troop, is it his leadership or the independent character in the units leadership or the sergeant for example. You always take the highest leadership score in the testing unit. I think there is an USR forcing you to test on the Units lowest LS score but i can't find it right now. If I remember correctly its realy rare aniways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 29, 2015 Share Posted June 29, 2015 If the model passed RP or FnP, the wound will have been saved, so no Initiative check needed. This is only relevant against multiwound models. Es tut mir leid, aber...that is incorrect, at least in the case of FnP. Neither FnP, nor RP, is listed in the rule book as a save. Furthermore, FnP advertises itself as a remedy to "unsaved wounds." Ergo, prior to the FnP test, the wound is classified as "unsaved," and therefore the stasis bomb is effective. It doesn't preempt the FnP test, it merely removes the model regardless of the outcome of any FnP test. The same is probably true of RP, as well. If the rules for RP start from the supposition that an unsaved rule exists, and we're going to give you a second chance at survival, then the wound is an unsaved wound for the purposes of the stasis bomb. /edit/...and it is in fact, FnP, not RP, that adds real value to the bomb. "works slightly better against one codex" is meh. "works slightly better against some units from many codices" is much better, especially given how annoying FnP is. /edit again/ But let's not kid ourselves, boys and girls, it's the MEGA-BUFFED stained glass cannon that makes the dark talon worth considering. A flier with rerollable jink and a miniature demolisher cannon that drops a vortex every other game? Yes, please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solrac Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Actually March as per the Feel No Pain rules (p164): "On a 5+ the unsaved wound is discounted - treat it as having been saved." If the person fails the armour save but then makes the Feel No Pain it count's as being saved ergo not an "unsaved wound" even though Feel No Pain is triggered when they suffer an unsaved wound . I understand what you are getting at but the Initiative test can't interrupt someone's rolling sequence unless a rule specifically says otherwise. Further to this the vast Stasis Anomaly rule (p129) says "when a model suffers an unsaved wound" doesn't say "when an unsaved wound is triggered". The model doesn't suffer an unsaved wound if they make their FnP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Actually March as per the Feel No Pain rules (p164): "On a 5+ the unsaved wound is discounted - treat it as having been saved." If the person fails the armour save but then makes the Feel No Pain it count's as being saved ergo not an "unsaved wound" even though Feel No Pain is triggered when they suffer an unsaved wound . I understand what you are getting at but the Initiative test can't interrupt someone's rolling sequence unless a rule specifically says otherwise. Further to this the vast Stasis Anomaly rule (p129) says "when a model suffers an unsaved wound" doesn't say "when an unsaved wound is triggered". The model doesn't suffer an unsaved wound if they make their FnP. sounds like a Great FAQ question to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Retaliation Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 People have been arguing about that since space wolves got their helfrost weapons. The closest thing to an answer GW has given is they FAQ'd that Dark Pansies can lose a special rule or something even if they make the FNP save (implying that FNP/Reanimation doesn't interfere with other special effects). How you solve it depends on if you use the rules for simultaneous rules (player whose turn it is decides order of resolution) because both are advanced rules and have the same trigger condition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The model must have suffered an unsaved wound in order to get FnP. Seems pretty cut and dry to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amnesiadidit Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 As for the topic, if you hit a group of five tacs and one CM and four of the tacs plus the CM take a wound, you would test each model individually so they would use their own profiles not the highest. Could be wrong but thats just the way I interpret it based on the rules GW has provided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 And it tests vs. Initiative not Leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jazzhands Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 My bad on the feel no pain. Looks like it's one to be faqed. As it is per model you would use individual initiative. Cypher would be down to five so fails on a six. My guess would be this is how they set the standard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Does this seem alright? (Q Ravenwing Dark Talon - Stasis Bomb Pg.129) The rule for the stasis bomb states "if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon it must pass a separate initiative test..." Under the rules for Feel No Pain it states "when a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved wound..." & "This is not a saving throw, so can be used against..." Does the stasis bomb still trigger an initiative test even if a model successfully discounts the wound using Feel No Pain, as the model has still suffered an unsaved wound as per Feel No Pain not being a save? If yes then would this also then apply to Reanimation protocols as it also states "when a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved wound..." & "This is not a saving throw, so can be used against..."? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother_Darius Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Does this seem alright? (Q Ravenwing Dark Talon - Stasis Bomb Pg.129) The rule for the stasis bomb states "if a model suffers one or more unsaved wounds from this weapon it must pass a separate initiative test..." Under the rules for Feel No Pain it states "when a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved wound..." & "This is not a saving throw, so can be used against..." Does the stasis bomb still trigger an initiative test even if a model successfully discounts the wound using Feel No Pain, as the model has still suffered an unsaved wound as per Feel No Pain not being a save? If yes then would this also then apply to Reanimation protocols as it also states "when a model with this special rule suffers an unsaved wound..." & "This is not a saving throw, so can be used against..."? Sounds good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkn3ssF4lls Posted June 30, 2015 Author Share Posted June 30, 2015 Lol here I go asking my first controversial question >.< Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Why wouldn't the unsaved wounds force the initiative test, those that pass take their FnP. Like an interrupt from MtG. ( I think that's how those worked...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Why wouldn't the unsaved wounds force the initiative test, those that pass take their FnP. Like an interrupt from MtG. ( I think that's how those worked...) There is no interrupt per MtG!!! Nevertheless, it is a good FAQ question. Clearly, you don't get FnP until you have an unsaved wound. Then, equally as clearly, passing the FnP instructs you to treat the unsaved wound as having been saved. My own feeling is that you then have an unsaved wound that is treated as having been saved...but is still an unsaved wound. It's like striking out in baseball and the catcher drops the ball, and you make it to first base before he can tag you with the ball or throw it to the first baseman to step on the base. You get first base and no out is recorded, but the strikeout still counts against your batting average. It's a strikeout that is treated like a single/walk/hit batsman, but it's still a strikeout. In the same way, I would argue that in this situation we have an unsaved wound (or else there would be no FnP test!), but passing the test means you don't lose a wound. I think it's poor wording in the FnP rule, they don't mean to say that there was no unsaved wound, but they do mean to say that you don't lose a wound. Because both rules are triggered by the same condition, neither of them preempts the other. The lost wound is voided if the FnP test is passed regardless of the outcome of the initiative test, but the model is removed if the initiative test is failed regardless of the outcome of the FnP test. They have nothing to do with one another, they are resolved simultaneously and separately, in the same manner as a casualty getting its attacks because its initiative matches the initiative of the slaying model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhead01 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I think my thought above equates to the same thing as if the Stasis bomb had instant death on 6's. which would be the same thing. models affected by instant death wouldn't get their FnP and those only wounded and failing a save would. My thinking is to keep things simple and not collapse the space time continuum with stressing order of precedence. however I know that I may not be correct. But it might be worth looking at. I'd rather that than rolling off of which rule comes first. GW has done that in the past. Food for thought. (Sorry about the MtG reference. I just recall some stuff from that game from.....long long ago.) I am interested in the final outcome. Stasis bombs and the rift cannon are weapons I would very much like to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Here we go again! The joke is on all of us anyway because GW is finally getting us to pay attention to our fliers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 There is a thread on official rules section about Stasis bomb and FNP shenanigans, so any discussions should be held there, in the meantime we wait for a FAQ or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkn3ssF4lls Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 There is a thread on official rules section about Stasis bomb and FNP shenanigans, so any discussions should be held there, in the meantime we wait for a FAQ or something. Ah this is already in the FAQ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I added it there the same time I mentioned it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crazy Jay Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I'm away from my books atm but isn't there a blurb in the BRB that says when two or more rules happen at the same time, the player whose turn it is decides the order? In this case say you hit a unit of necron warriors with a stasis bomb after the armor saves are made, the stasis rule can be chosen to be resolved first and all models that failed that received a wound takes an init test or be removed. Those that pass are then allowed a RP roll to stay alive. I could be way off but that's how it seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Theres a new thread in the official rules section of the forum to continue discussion for the debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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