Olataro Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 You know, not sure if anyone noticed this but it seems that we won't be getting extra formations like the space marines did when they had the skyhammer formation. Not sure if I should be happy or not...what you guys think of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I think its good. Can give our wallets a relief and gives us time to explore the Codex. In a few months/half year time they can release a formation to keep DA fresh. Or they won't release one at all. Either way, I'm not bothered one bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I am glad we don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I think its good. Can give our wallets a relief and gives us time to explore the Codex. In a few months/half year time they can release a formation to keep DA fresh. Or they won't release one at all. Either way, I'm not bothered one bit. My theory is that brother belthor will come back during the winter data slate/black library release calendar and we will see the return of our three sacred standards in some fashion. Maybe a formation involving him, and some veterans, and a chaplain. I think that would be a nice fluffy blend of things. (Belthor is my favourite angel as you can probably tell). This I think would be a good dark angel reward for the calendar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wraith776 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 What is this skyhammer I've been hearing about a lot? I've got no idea what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Short version a formation with 2 dev squads and 2 assault squads. the devs shoot extra on arrival, the assault assault on arrival. You can search around the forum for extra detail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'll be honest, just looking at the image of the rules for that formation, there's nothing that says this needs to be restricted to the Codex Adeptus Astartes. Even on the page it doesn't say that. Far as I'm concerned you could run this if you wanted to? Even if not as DA you could paint the models up as DA but just use other Chapter Tactics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The Faction for a Datasheet is defined by the Faction icons in the header. It's a Codex Space Marines Formation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 I'll be honest, just looking at the image of the rules for that formation, there's nothing that says this needs to be restricted to the Codex Adeptus Astartes. Even on the page it doesn't say that. Far as I'm concerned you could run this if you wanted to? Even if not as DA you could paint the models up as DA but just use other Chapter Tactics. And you've bought 1 of the limited run of one of the boxes that the formation rules came with The rule set is not available for Download/Purchase from any outlet nor is it in any codex or campaign book and is the property of GW From a competition viewpoint its a non starter from a gaming group viewpoint its up to the groups themselves if the scanned rules for this formation would be acceptable. When I bought my copy of the Codex the GW guy was quite amendment with one of the customers who was wanting to play the formation in the shop "If you bought the box with it in then fine, if not then its not available as it was meant as a perk for customers buying the 2 dev 2 assault squad package" Personally think it was a dumb thing to do on GW's part given that 30 seconds after the box is opened it would be all over the net with loads of winey kids wanting to go into the store and nuke their hated Eldar enemy with the mother of all alpha strikes but thats marketing for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isual Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Its a stupid idea to think that some piece of information can be limited. Espacialy in times of the internet. I dont even need to make a copy of this rules, they are that simple you can memorize them easily. And what if i sell them? Is there a gw swat team for deleting the information from peoples brains to ensure only real customers have knowledge of the rules? Its just ridiculous from my point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJD Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Rumours have been a out for most of the year about a Dark Angels vs chaos (thousand sons) campaign box due to be released at some point after age of Sigmar. A mountain of slat is needed as usUal but if true you would assume it would include new formations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The Faction for a Datasheet is defined by the Faction icons in the header. It's a Codex Space Marines Formation. I stand corrected, I never noticed that header at the top. And you've bought 1 of the limited run of one of the boxes that the formation rules came with The rule set is not available for Download/Purchase from any outlet nor is it in any codex or campaign book and is the property of GW From a competition viewpoint its a non starter from a gaming group viewpoint its up to the groups themselves if the scanned rules for this formation would be acceptable. When I bought my copy of the Codex the GW guy was quite amendment with one of the customers who was wanting to play the formation in the shop "If you bought the box with it in then fine, if not then its not available as it was meant as a perk for customers buying the 2 dev 2 assault squad package" Personally think it was a dumb thing to do on GW's part given that 30 seconds after the box is opened it would be all over the net with loads of winey kids wanting to go into the store and nuke their hated Eldar enemy with the mother of all alpha strikes but thats marketing for you. I agree that it's a little silly to have limited edition rules, but then again there are sometimes rules that are released with WD. Imperial Knights for instance released without a codex, but that didn't stop anyone from running them without bringing their WD in as evidence as such. I think it's totally up to the discretion of the players. Now, in a GW store the managers may have been told to not let people play it for some reason, and in that case they aren't exactly going to win the hearts and minds of their customer base. As far as DA is concerned, I think this squad would work well with just about any force we have except maybe the demi-company just because you're already deep on AM/Devs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Its a stupid idea to think that some piece of information can be limited. Espacialy in times of the internet. I dont even need to make a copy of this rules, they are that simple you can memorize them easily. And what if i sell them? Is there a gw swat team for deleting the information from peoples brains to ensure only real customers have knowledge of the rules? Its just ridiculous from my point of view. If an author produces a book then copyright means it belongs to him for a fixed term so that he may profit from his work, this is not some piece of information but a publication which GW has control over. If you sell a legit copy then it belongs to the new owner but you knew that already As for memorizing it you need a copy of your codex and supplementary rule sets from the various publications to show to your opponent but you knew that as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 And you've bought 1 of the limited run of one of the boxes that the formation rules came with The rule set is not available for Download/Purchase from any outlet nor is it in any codex or campaign book and is the property of GW From a competition viewpoint its a non starter from a gaming group viewpoint its up to the groups themselves if the scanned rules for this formation would be acceptable. Maybe it's different where you play, but most FLGSs I've been to have let people play with photocopied rules to prevent players from having to carry around so many books (this is especially applicable for FW, where you only need one page out of the book). Even the big three competitive events in the US (Adepticon, Nova, LVO) have clauses in their rules that say the same thing. Additionally, most FLGSs couldn't care less if you play with a "copy" of a GW exclusive dataslate, as that isn't money they would see anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnakeChisler Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 In the UK you have to turn up with a proper copy weather that's Digital or Hard + any FAQ's Given the large number of campaign books, digital books etc. its pretty understandable as the TO's need to be able to verify what your fetching is legit if there's a challenge or a ruling that's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palin2222 Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 We have a lot of formations as is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IndigoJack Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 In the UK you have to turn up with a proper copy weather that's Digital or Hard + any FAQ's Given the large number of campaign books, digital books etc. its pretty understandable as the TO's need to be able to verify what your fetching is legit if there's a challenge or a ruling that's needed. Given the amount of formations/detachments available, and how spread out they are through various sources, it's a getting to be pretty unfeasible to carry that many books. For example, if I want to run a flesh tearers strike force with a space marine CAD that has a sicaran, I need a blood angels codex, the shield of baal: exterminatus book, the space marine book, and imperial armour volume 2, on top of the rule book. That's 5 books just to play one army. Not to mention that I only want one page out of the campaign book and the IA book. In a tournament environment where you play 3 or 4 games in a day, adding a few more books makes moving tables even more cumbersome. I agree having the rules is a must, but a photocopy/scan of the rules is just as good. Additionally, any judge at a tournament should be familiar with most of the rules in the game and at least have an idea of what every unit can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berzul Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 The copyright argument is solid. The dataslate is a copyrighted work from GW, and as such, copy for commercial use is illegal in most of the world. Copy for storage or reference for personal non-commercial use would be an exception to this ban on copies, though. Again, according to MOST of the worlds intellectual property legislation. The thing is, this kind of enforcement is not feasible, and gets quite silly. It is indeed quite easy to remember the rules, and to get the models to play it. There is no legal basis to forbid you from using a copy of your own original and legally owned books. Since noone could really verify on the spot if the copy you have is over your own original copy, or from a friends original copy, or just downloaded from any website that carries the file, enforcement becomes quite difficult. It is quite unreasonable (from a practical point of view for the player) that you be requiered to carry so many books and rules, but that is the only way to ensure you own what you play. In the end, I think the issue boils down to the fact that, from a consumer base point of view, such a decision is quite unreasonable in itself. Silly even. What does GW intend? This would and will have a very negative effect on their consumers image of the company, and will most likely get a very negative reaction, with people either opting out of buying it (future such formations I mean, since this one is already sold out) or playing it "illegaly". I just can't find this a very wise commercial decision on their part. In any case, unless someone demands to see the original dataslate, intellectual property rights in most countries allows you to use a copy for personal use, instead of the original, under special exceptions and circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
march10k Posted June 30, 2015 Share Posted June 30, 2015 Such equine feces...C:SM gets skyhammer...we lose DWA on turn one, so we can't even assault until turn three...even when we win (not the testbed for C:SM), we lose. If we get a formation that lets DW assault on arrival (um, totally fluffy, especially if it's restricted to DWAing inside a ravenwing no-scatter bubble) a ways down the road, then all will be right with the world, but when RW was the favored child of the last codex, and yet they got further buffing this time around while DW got shafted...I wouldn't count on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Well, they aren't Ultramarines, so clearly then can not be as good /sarcasm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Sheol Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I don't want a formation Limited Edition bundled with models i dont nerd (i already own about 200 DA miniatures)... I Will be happy if they Will do a campaign supplement Like shoeld of baal with more formations and rules but a bundle-formation? No way! I already hate the WHW esclusive command tanks and skyhammer, i dont nerd more of this crap... ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaulerUK Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 We're free to take any of the Marine Formations as we see fit, we just don't get DA rules with them. That's why all of our Formations differ from the standard Marine options rather than just one or two. Take 'em! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olataro Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 I just feel like we got shafted again. They took a lot of our rules and made em better for the space marines, while we experienced minor tweaks and major nerfs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Lucifer Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 What? This time we were the second codex around, the only think they took was the Librarian Conclave. But hey, you can always wait a couple of years for a new DA dex and pursue less shafted armies in the meantime. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HandofAnubis Posted September 18, 2015 Share Posted September 18, 2015 · Hidden by Chaplain Lucifer, September 19, 2015 - No reason given Hidden by Chaplain Lucifer, September 19, 2015 - No reason given Personally I am ok with C:SM having the skyhammer formation, and each dex having their own unique and hopefully fluffy formations. However I think it is completely unacceptable that if we want to ally in C: SM and use a skyhammer formation we are unable to do so because they are not making it available outside of that limited run web special. If they would release this as a dataslate, then the stores could argue that you have to prove you own it I guess, and they would make money on it as we could buy it, and it would be somewhat less likely to alienate their customers, almost wins all around. But special edition rules that are only available to those that bought the limited run bundle is a slap in the face and it is crazy to expect people to buy a bundle with four units that most of us already just to get the formation rules. While their actual customer service seems to be great, their business practices / model seems to be anything but customer centric. Link to comment
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