Brother Raul Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Brothers I clearly don't get enough games in. And I have just restarted after 3rd edition, so again I call on your experience to help me figure some stuff out. Just got a new box of DC and the extra bits in every kit always get me thinking about alternative ways to kit out my minis. Always notice there are x2 hand flamers in every box of DC but don't own a copy of 7th edition rules or have any experience running hand flamers on DC. 1st Do hand flamers count as pistols, specifically do they count as a CCW for the extra attacks? 2nd What ratio of hand flamer to DC do you employ? 3rd Are they worth it? To me it seems maybe x2 in a 5 man squad to chew up hordes and maybe the odd eldar jet bike or venom. You'd just use them like a reqular flamer no? I'd appreciate any experience as there is noooooo way I am at a point to magnatize wrists/ weapons. P.S Do melta pistols get the same CCW profile as a bolt pistol? Thinking a squad with infernus pistols V Grey Knights for insta gibbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucien Eilam Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hand flamers and inferno pistols are pistols. Hand flamers are only S3/AP6, so don't expect too much from them, but they can be useful. Jetbikes probably won't care though. Standard multi-template advice holds. When you need to get into assault to avoid being shot at, be careful of laying down too many templates on units that S3/AP6 is actually effective against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Flame pistols count as CCW, but save them for assault squad sergeants. DC definitely don't need more low strength, high AP hits. They need ways of ignoring armor saves. Power weapons (mainly swords) and fists are your friends. If you have a character attached consider a grav pistol for concussive. Makes dealing with monsters and powerful characters much easier as they might otherwise kill many DC in the process. If you take any pistol in your DC I recommend the melta for a chance of opening transports. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDice0809 Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 Hand flamers and inferno pistols are both pistol type, and both count towards the two hand weapons means +1 attck rule. A good ratio of hand flamers to death company is 0 for however many you are taking. Hand flamers are not very good. They wound Guardsmen on 4s, and only have the AP to ignore a Kroots/gaunts armor save. While they can throw a few extra dice into overwatch, if your planning on taking a charge with them, you are doing them all wrong. Inferno pistols aren't bad at pinging off a model before a charge, they just get really expensive really fast. If you want to use them against vehicles might as well take the much cheaper melta bomb- the pistols range is so shortt you might as well charge,of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 I agree, Hand flamers do not bring anything that the DC do not already possess in spades. A couple of Infernus pistols can be very handy though, particularly for cracking transports and allowing the DC to assault the squishy contents. They do get expensive but I think of it as cutting down on the need to buy dedicated anti-tank units as my assault units can rapidly carry melta wherever I need it. I do the same with my Sanguinary Guard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother Raul Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share Posted July 1, 2015 Thanks Knife&Fork (again!) BAddice0809 and Lucien Eliam, great advise and helps me to realise a small squad of DC is not our best anti horde solution! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ushtarador Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 helps me to realise a small squad of DC is not our best anti horde solution! They are actually already very good at this task, which is why they don't need additional gear like handflamers to help them out ;) And they are also very good at chopping any other unit in the game, provided they get the charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 1, 2015 Share Posted July 1, 2015 If you need to kill hordes, good options are: A. Autocannon Predators w/ HB sponsons (cheap, durable, mobile) B. Drop Pod Tactical Marines w/ Heavy Flamer, Flamer, and possibly Combi-Flamer. You can give the DP a Deathwind launcher, too. C. Stock DC in an Assault Transport and/or with Jump Packs. Maybe a Chaplain to help them chop better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Karhedron Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If you need to kill hordes, good options are: A. Autocannon Predators w/ HB sponsons (cheap, durable, mobile) B. Drop Pod Tactical Marines w/ Heavy Flamer, Flamer, and possibly Combi-Flamer. You can give the DP a Deathwind launcher, too. C. Stock DC in an Assault Transport and/or with Jump Packs. Maybe a Chaplain to help them chop better. D. Furioso Dreanought with Frag cannon in a drop pod. E. Whilrwind (cheap as chips if you have spare HS slot). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Boltgun DC is superior to paying for Hand Flamers in every aspect. If you really want decent ranged punch on a good assault unit, just give them all Boltguns and use the saved points to add as many Power Fists as you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Also, Relentless means you can still charge after the torrent of shots. I wonder if the extra bolter shot is worth losing the extra melee attack, though . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Also, Relentless means you can still charge after the torrent of shots. I wonder if the extra bolter shot is worth losing the extra melee attack, though . . . I would say no. If you must have relentless boters, bikes are a better option. DC at at their best with a bolt pistol in one hand and a Chainsword in the other. That being said, any DC with powerfists or thunderhammers should carry a Bolter. They arnt getting the extra attack so they may as well get the extra shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vel'Cona Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 Well played, sir. It's too bad DC can't take combi-weapons . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucumon Posted July 2, 2015 Share Posted July 2, 2015 If you must have relentless boters, bikes are a better option. DC at at their best with a bolt pistol in one hand and a Chainsword in the other. That being said, any DC with powerfists or thunderhammers should carry a Bolter. They arnt getting the extra attack so they may as well get the extra shot. Isnt the advantage of relentless bolters is that you can whittle down their strength before charging in to minimize how many swings they can get back? Thereby you get the same number of kills (notionally and if you dont fail the charge) with less downside risk. Has anyone math-hammered this or know of a reference? (Because otherwise I know what I will be doing at work Monday morning...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 I think the loss of WS 5 is a case for taking more bolters. Being WS 4 they now usually hit on 4+ rather than 3+ and I'd rather ignore 5+ saves than wound on 3+. Bolter shots are also guaranteed to strike before CC even begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 3, 2015 Share Posted July 3, 2015 Also, Relentless means you can still charge after the torrent of shots. I wonder if the extra bolter shot is worth losing the extra melee attack, though . . . I would say no. If you must have relentless boters, bikes are a better option. DC at at their best with a bolt pistol in one hand and a Chainsword in the other. That being said, any DC with powerfists or thunderhammers should carry a Bolter. They arnt getting the extra attack so they may as well get the extra shot. Considering you can't assault enemies that are 24" away, the answer isn't all that clear cut. Most of the time, having an extra S4 melee attack only gives marginally better results but the flexibility of being able to double tap a unit at 18" distance can win you the game. For me, it's always Boltgun DC > CCW DC any day. If I really want a meatgrinder unit I will use a Fragrioso. DC are my swiss knife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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