Daemon2027 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The RG, IH and Salamanders fought for hours during the dropdite massacre, the RG and Sallies fell back because they thought they were being releaved by the traitors, the IHs pushed on. Any legion would have fallen apart when that relief turned their guns on them, while they had the other 4 Legions at their bavk. I don't think the other Legions would have done any better or any worse on Istvann V. And yes in the aftermath Corax took about 3000 men into the hills and survived about 90 days fighting and withdrawing until they were rescued. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113362 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 There's still the DA, the WS, the SW, the BA, the IH (with Ferrus) and the Sallies (with Vulkan). I don't see how they couldn't mount a sufficient counterattack - given sufficient numbers. Also don't underestimate the idiocy GW writers gift the Word Bearers with. After their initial assault fizzled out, their only advantage was their numbers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 There's still the DA, the WS, the SW, the BA, the IH (with Ferrus) and the Sallies (with Vulkan). I don't see how they couldn't mount a sufficient counterattack - given sufficient numbers. Also don't underestimate the idiocy GW writers gift the Word Bearers with. After their initial assault fizzled out, their only advantage was their numbers. WS specialize in lighting strikes, not very useful for what was needed on calth. SW and BA would succumb to rage imo, and blindly attack. I just dont see the DA as being able to, just somehting about them. The salamanders.....hmm maybe. I think they are the most likely out of the loyalists. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well its a story. Bad guys have to follow certain types. I wasn't trying to leave out any legion. The point I am trying to make is all the Legions are equal. Each legion had its strengths and its weakness, buts that's doesn't mean that legion is worse then another. Each of the Legions would have been able to regroup and counter on Calth, and they would have done so in different ways. What I think the quote is trying to day is that the Ultramarines response was quick and organised because each separate unit/company whatever adapted to their situation. So the smaller unites went to ground and harried, surrving armour units regrouped and countered ect. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113377 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well organised lightning strikes are perfect for eliminating armies with insufficient cohesion, which is what the WB were. Disrupt their rituals, retreat. Strike the WB, let their anger draw them in pursuit, isolate, surround, and finally exterminate them. Heck, the WS would probably genuinely enjoy this one There's nothing to indicate the Wolves would succumb to some rage. The Blood Angels? Maybe they would, but their rage would make the WB soll their pants. The DA were easily amongst the most prestigious legions and their primarch, for all his failings, was a consummate tactician. You don't get to be that if you can't rally and refocus your legion on a dime. If anything, I think it's the Sallies who'd do the worst, they can get pretty hot headed, but not in the unrelenting way the BA can. You have to be sensitive to when GW writings contradict themsleves and/or the reality they've constructed. This is one of those cases. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113383 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Im just glad my friend was wrong and noone else considers it mary sue writing :) So far tempest has been great and makes me want to buy the earlier books Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113386 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 No, it's not Mary Sue writing, it's just garden variety bad writing Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113393 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 No, it's not Mary Sue writing, it's just garden variety bad writing You dare insult Alan Bligh! ;) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113396 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Yup, it's not the first time, and I doubt it will be the last - he's already gotten two earsful from me for the way he handled the World Eaters and the Iron Warriors. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113399 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Yup, it's not the first time, and I doubt it will be the last - he's already gotten two earsful from me for the way he handled the World Eaters and the Iron Warriors. huh, i think he is the best lore writer since....ever. He wrote that guilliman publicly hung those who killed konor on macragge! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113402 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Visitor13 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Yup, it's not the first time, and I doubt it will be the last - he's already gotten two earsful from me for the way he handled the World Eaters and the Iron Warriors. huh, i think he is the best lore writer since....ever. That he may be, but in GW that's not saying much. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113403 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well not quite. The RG and AL would have broken into smaller groups and harried the Word Bearers, performing hit and run behind the WB lines, making things difficult. Which work in certain situations, but they would struggle to mount a strong central counter offensive as its not really how they work. Similiar the Imperial Fists or Iron Warriors would have bunkered down and formed better defensive positions then the XIII but become more static. The point I'm trying to make is that all the Legions have their strengths and their weakness. The Ultramarines are good at everything, but they dont excel in a certain area. I would rather have the RG for hit and run guerilla warfair, the Imperial Fist for defensive etc. But the Ultrams can do all this well, and they are very good to adapting to a situation. Wow couldnt have worded it better. While certain legions may have performed better in certain areas during the battle, they would have failed at other areas. The ultramarines however, are the jack of all trades and masters of none Eh, when I had outlined such alternate scenarios with other Legions in the Ultramarines' place you hadn't been so keen on it. Just sayin'. (I had used the same four Legions to boot...) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113404 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 The thing we aren't always going to be happy with how factions are written, especially if we have an interest in said faction. It's just the way we are, we all Luke different things. I haven't had a problem.in the way they have written any of the Legions, doesn't make you opinions any less, we like different things. It's all good. I quite like the waybthe RG have been portrayed, but I know some RG fans in this forum dislike it. There are certain things I don't like, the polyisian style artn for example, so my models don't use it, other little things, well I write my own background to explain why mynguys are different. These books are the inspiration for our models, not the final word. Well not quite. The RG and AL would have broken into smaller groups and harried the Word Bearers, performing hit and run behind the WB lines, making things difficult. Which work in certain situations, but they would struggle to mount a strong central counter offensive as its not really how they work. Similiar the Imperial Fists or Iron Warriors would have bunkered down and formed better defensive positions then the XIII but become more static. The point I'm trying to make is that all the Legions have their strengths and their weakness. The Ultramarines are good at everything, but they dont excel in a certain area. I would rather have the RG for hit and run guerilla warfair, the Imperial Fist for defensive etc. But the Ultrams can do all this well, and they are very good to adapting to a situation. Wow couldnt have worded it better. While certain legions may have performed better in certain areas during the battle, they would have failed at other areas. The ultramarines however, are the jack of all trades and masters of none Eh, when I had outlined such alternate scenarios with other Legions in the Ultramarines' place you hadn't been so keen on it. Just sayin'. (I had used the same four Legions to boot...) Who me? I don't remember that.... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113405 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Well not quite. The RG and AL would have broken into smaller groups and harried the Word Bearers, performing hit and run behind the WB lines, making things difficult. Which work in certain situations, but they would struggle to mount a strong central counter offensive as its not really how they work. Similiar the Imperial Fists or Iron Warriors would have bunkered down and formed better defensive positions then the XIII but become more static. The point I'm trying to make is that all the Legions have their strengths and their weakness. The Ultramarines are good at everything, but they dont excel in a certain area. I would rather have the RG for hit and run guerilla warfair, the Imperial Fist for defensive etc. But the Ultrams can do all this well, and they are very good to adapting to a situation. Wow couldnt have worded it better. While certain legions may have performed better in certain areas during the battle, they would have failed at other areas. The ultramarines however, are the jack of all trades and masters of none Eh, when I had outlined such alternate scenarios with other Legions in the Ultramarines' place you hadn't been so keen on it. Just sayin'. (I had used the same four Legions to boot...) Hmm? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113407 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Who me? I don't remember that.... Not you. Sorry for the confusion. I meant to adress the approval of your description. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113409 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daemon2027 Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Ahh cool. Thought I had been sleep posting again. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113412 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remus Ventanus. Posted July 4, 2015 Author Share Posted July 4, 2015 Who me? I don't remember that.... Not you. Sorry for the confusion. I meant to adress the approval of your description. Im not sure i know what your talking about. If your referring to the thread you made, im sitll not sure what your referring too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113416 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Legatus Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 In the other thread: Remus Ventanus: "The Utramarines were the only ones who could have done it." Legatus: "But other Legions would have done it differently. E.g. the RG and AL would have gone underground and harrassed the WB. The IW and IF would have put up a much heavier defense." Remus Ventanus: "That's not what the book says. You are wrong." This thread: Remus Ventanus: "The Utramarines were the only ones who could have done it." The Hydra: "But other Legions would have done it differently. E.g. the RG and AL would have gone underground and harrassed the WB. The IW and IF would have put up a much heavier defense." Remus Ventanus: "Very well put, sir." Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113423 Share on other sites More sharing options...
powwow Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Remus Ventanus, this thread looks like you are seeking validation for the idea that only the Ultramarines could turn that situation around. When someone says another legion could do it albeit differently, you question them. When someone agrees with you, you applaud their answer. It's pretty cringeworthy to read to be honest. I thought this was going to be a thread about general Tempest lore discussion.. having just read it I am pretty happy with the breakdown of the smaller conflicts particularly the zone mortalis initiatives. The imagery behind Chapter Master Empion leading the marines across the hull of the ship was pretty awesome. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113436 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother-Chaplain Kage Posted July 4, 2015 Share Posted July 4, 2015 Warning was given and paid no heed. http://i.imgur.com/u9yQtVs.gif Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310644-tempest-lore-discussion-and-review/page/2/#findComment-4113441 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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