Rion Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Hello all. Trying to decide between 3 possible lists for a fluffy Imperial Fist Successor Chapter Mainly planing on going to go against Blood Angels, Nids, and Necrons. Try and guess the fluff based on my character names I've got two of them posted in the 40k army list forums. Link here: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310648-if-successor-chapter/ Now I'm not sure if the Aegis is legal for 30k armies, but I'm a casual player. I don't plan on going to tourneys so I don't for see it becoming a problem as long as my opponent doesn't. I love imperial Fist. Their qualities of stubbornness, personal loyalty, honor appeals to me a personal level. And I think the 30K army rules capture that well. But lets remain practical here lol. The battle plan is simple. Sigismund and the Templar in their Land Raider drive deep into the opponents throat and makes them pray they were elsewhere. While the Heavy Support Squad and the Librarian chill behind the Aegis and start blowing stuff up. The Tactical Squads do much of the same as Sigismund and the Templar but with an emphasis on objective capturing. So which is your favorite. The Heresy? Or one of the other two variants? (link above) HQ 'Arturus' - 230 -Counts as Sigismund 'Myrrdin' Legion Centurion - 140 - Divination Level 2, Artificer Armor, Combi-Flamer Troops 9 man Templar Squad - 555 - 2 Plasma Pistols, Land Raider Phobos 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 245 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, Combi-Plasma, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 245 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, Combi-Plasma, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 245 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Power Weapon, Combi-Plasma, Rhino Heavy Support Legion Heavy Support Squad - 215 - 5 Lascanons Fortification Aegis Defense Line - 100 - Quad-Gun Total=1975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Only thing To change really is: No plasma Pistols on the Templar. Instead, take a Vexilla, Combat Shields and a Solarite Power Gauntlet on the Champion. Use the 25 Free points you have for Combat shields if you have to. Turning the Templars into TEQ's in CC is invaluable because of how hard they hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Given that Sigismund, who is Fearless, would be with the Templar wouldn't the Vexilla be wasted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Given that Sigismund, who is Fearless, would be with the Templar wouldn't the Vexilla be wasted? And what if he dies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted July 5, 2015 Author Share Posted July 5, 2015 Given that Sigismund, who is Fearless, would be with the Templar wouldn't the Vexilla be wasted? And what if he dies? point taken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 5, 2015 Share Posted July 5, 2015 Given that Sigismund, who is Fearless, would be with the Templar wouldn't the Vexilla be wasted? And what if he dies? point taken Its mostly as a form of protective redundancy :P Since we lack ATSKNF, morale - and thus, failing it - is a big deal in 30k since it means your marines are now liable to run off the table if you break and keep running (even though you can still regroup at normal LD). Apart from that, your main problem would be dealing with Flare Shielded Spartans before they get to do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted July 6, 2015 Author Share Posted July 6, 2015 Not to mention if you loose combat. That'll suck hard! Not to worried about Flare Shielded Sicarians, the guys I'll be playing are 40k where they are not an issue lol. Had to drop the power weapons from the Tactical Squad to fit combat shields on everyone in the Templar Squad but with creative use of Fury of the Legion I don't for see that being a problem, with everyone in the squad having close bomb at weapons anyway. Turns it into something like this. HQ 'Arturus' - 230 -Counts as Sigismund 'Myrrdin' Legion Centurion - 140 - Divination Level 2, Artificer Armor, Combi-Flamer Troops 9 man Templar Squad - 555 - 9 Combat Shields, Legion Vexilla, Champion 'Cai': Solarite Power Gauntlet, Land Raider Phobos 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 235 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 235 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 235 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Rhino Heavy Support Legion Heavy Support Squad - 245 - 5 Lascanons Fortification Aegis Defense Line - 100 - Quad-Gun Total=2000 even Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted July 6, 2015 Share Posted July 6, 2015 Dont forget that we get stubborn in cover! Makes up for the Lack of ATSKNF but means if you want to make the most of it that you're hoping from cover to cover or making yourself pretty immobile. Also, have you considered giving your tac sarges Melta Bombs over the Combi weapon? Would give them an edge when dealing with anything AV. mainly since the 5 man lascannon squad and 2 TLLC shots from the land raider arent much in terms of anti-tank when you consider that for pretty much the same points as the LC squad, you can have a squad of 3 quad mortar rapiers each dishing our 4 shots of either S8 Sunder (reroll failed pens) or 4 S5 3" blasts that cause -1ld to pinning tests. So, while the LC squad is nice and fluffy, you do have a bit more options to work with; especially since the "punchy" heavy weapons teams only start to out perform a rapier battery at 10 men. Hell, for the price of the squad, you could take 2 Las vindicators (rules are in FW DL section) which can each pump out up to 3 ordnance S9 ap1 shots. Youve also got the deredeo at the same points cost who has access to skyfire/interceptor, 4 S8 sunder shots or 4 plasma shots without gets hot / single large blast of plasma with gets hot and a 3 shot s6 ap3 missile launcher that can fire at different targets within 60" And always hits side armour and pinning. So, while the list at this point is pretty good for 40k armies in general, there are ways to optimize it for more "bang for your buck" units. Unless, your making a list with what youve got. At that point, do what youve gotta do to have fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted July 7, 2015 Author Share Posted July 7, 2015 It's mostly that last one. Trying to work with what I've got. But great idea with the Rapier Weapons Battery! One question about them though. Does the Motor get both fire mods? I can't seem to find a definitive answer. Where would I find out? EDIT: I read through the forums and found the letter from forge world saying so. So much DAKKA! Stick the Aegis somewhere with a good line of sight. The Librarian provides twin-linked, sunder lets them reroll penetrations. I cringe at the potential damage. And as a bonus the whole battery is cheaper then the heavy weapons squad and more survivable while providing more firepower. May be able to stick power weapons back on the Tac squads along with melta bombs. Or even throw in an apothecary for the Templar. Oh decisions decisions! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted July 8, 2015 Author Share Posted July 8, 2015 Did a double check can't put Apothecaries with the Templar. So that options out. Maybe give the Tac Sergeants Meltabombs so they can join in the tank hunting if need be. I can't see much else to spend points on so they'll also get their power weapons back. Given that against Nids and Blood Angels getting assaulted is almost inevitable it may not be a bad idea. HQ 'Arturus' - 230 -Counts as Sigismund 'Myrrdin' Legion Centurion - 140 - Divination Level 2, Artificer Armor, Combi-Flamer Troops 9 man Templar Squad - 590 - 9 Combat Shields, Legion Vexilla, Champion 'Cai': Solarite Power Gauntlet, Land Raider Phobos 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 250 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Meltabomb, Power Weapon Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 250 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Meltabomb, Power Weapon Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 250 - Close Combat Weapons, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Meltabomb, Power Weapon Rhino Elite Legion Rapier Weapons Battery - 180 - 3 Quad-Mortar Fortification Aegis Defense Line - 100 - Quad-Gun Total=1990 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 So I've gone and played a few games with my previous list. Went 2 out of 3 with Blood Angels, last game was a total victory, no points scored for the Blood Angels (All three were kill point.) Found some weakness though. The Combi-Weapon on the Sergeant alone was not enough in the way of special weapons. Fury of the Legion while nice was not enough to counteract the need for a special weapon, and required to much set up for my aggressive mobile play style. The Blood Angel player and I are playing on partaking in a team tournament at some point in the future. The local store where we would play at runs 1850 tourneys so I've had to modify the list a little to counter act it's weakness' and meet the 1850 limit. This list also translates very well into a Champions of Fenris list (link just below.) Comments and critiques on both lists welcome. As well as which one you like better and why. Fluff wise nothing changes I can keep it the same as an Imperial Fist successor. Tactically nothing changes either. I personally think these lists fit my play style better. link: http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/314641-1850-champions-of-fenris/ HQ 'Arturus' - 230 -Counts as Sigismund - Rite of War: Pride of the Legion Troops 9 man Templar Squad - 590 - 9 Combat Shields, 2 Plasma Pistols, Legion Vexilla, Champion 'Cai': Solarite Power Gauntlet, Land Raider Phobos 10 man Legion Tactical Veteran Squad - 285 - 2 Plasmagun, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (Fearless) 10 man Legion Tactical Veteran Squad - 285 - 2 Plasmagun, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (Fearless) 10 man Legion Tactical Veteran Squad - 285 - 2 Plasmagun, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Combi-Plasma, Rhino (Fearless) Elite Legion Rapier Weapons Battery - 120 - 2 Quad-Mortar Total=1795 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 Seems ok, but, I'd honestly just take a Vexilla on the Tac Vets, 2 Heavy Bolters and Sniper. Ap2 is not consistent but you're always wounding on 4s and making use of BS5 as well as potentially not dying to Gets Hot! With Stubborn in Cover and the Vexilla to re-roll failed morale should be sufficient. Otherwise, they're good enough as is. I'd 100% Drop the Plasma Pistols from the Templars. Never Worth it imo. The 30pts should let you give the majority of the squad Combat shields for a flat 6++ which gets boosted to 5++ in CC. Which, to me, is better than potentially loosing 2 Templar to Gets Hot! Rolls in the rare times that you ever shoot a Pistol on a CC unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted October 8, 2015 Author Share Posted October 8, 2015 Seems ok, but, I'd honestly just take a Vexilla on the Tac Vets, 2 Heavy Bolters and Sniper. Ap2 is not consistent but you're always wounding on 4s and making use of BS5 as well as potentially not dying to Gets Hot! With Stubborn in Cover and the Vexilla to re-roll failed morale should be sufficient. Otherwise, they're good enough as is. I'd 100% Drop the Plasma Pistols from the Templars. Never Worth it imo. The 30pts should let you give the majority of the squad Combat shields for a flat 6++ which gets boosted to 5++ in CC. Which, to me, is better than potentially loosing 2 Templar to Gets Hot! Rolls in the rare times that you ever shoot a Pistol on a CC unit. I see your point about the Plasmaguns but would you believe I've never lost a model to Gets Hot? I once had a guy survive when he only had a 5+ armor save to protect him from Gets Hot. Fearless is just my default Veteran Rule. Sense the Veteran Tactics rule states you choose which rule you'll be using before each game it'll change accordingly. But I agree I should actually throw in a Vexilla for the times it's not Fearless. Not sold on the Heavy Bolters though, sense Sniper no longer really helps out on vehicle destruction it really limits my anti-vehicle options if I'm using Heavy Bolters. Although I may be wrong. Already have Combat Shields on every model in the Templar Squad but yeah I don't know why I keep giving them Plasma Pistols I only used them in one game and they spent the rest of the game locked in combat with a squad of Terminators. After that one game they never even had the time to fire. It was always been "Get out and CHARGE!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted October 8, 2015 Share Posted October 8, 2015 True you do loose anti-tank but, then again, you can give a squad 2 melta guns and squad wide melta bombs + tank hunters and just vape AV values left and right if they are permitted to do so. I also envy youre luck with Gets Hot. I have a contemptor with Plasma Cannon and Plasma Blaster in his hand and he glanced himself to death in a single shooting phase due to gets hot (3 tests, all failed). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted October 9, 2015 Author Share Posted October 9, 2015 That is a possibility. Hmmmmmm Instead of Gets Hot I have problems with blast templates. Either they don't hit anything or they epically fail to wound. And when they do it's not enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 Ok so I noticed my math previously was off so I've gone back and fixed that. Throwing Legion Vexillas in raises the points cost to 1825. So now I got some thoughts in my head now. 1. I'd like to throw in a third 'thud-gun' so that means trimming some fat here and there. Dropping the combi-plasmas drops me back down to 1795 but I'm still 5 points short. And I'm not sure where else I can loose some points. 2. Lets say we give up on adding the third 'thud-gun' which do you think I'll get more mileage out of? The Combi-Plasma? Or a Power Weapon on my Sergeants. Keeping in mind I'll be playing against Necrons, Blood Angels, Noise Marines, and Tyranids the most. 2 of those armies I'll be assaulted, and the other 2 I'll probably be wanting to assault. I'll most likely be adding melta bombs to the Vet Sergeants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Time for a little Necromancy lol. Been revisiting my list and I've hit a few road blocks and would like some help. Fist off I have a couple of lists so I'll take them in turn and I'd like your opinions on which you like better. Things to remember about both list: -I play only semi-competitively. The occasional tournament amongst friends and maybe the local game shop. -I'm using pretty much every model I have for these lists; and I'm flat broke, barley paying my bills off. (they only ones I'm not using is a 5 man squad of Termies) -I'll be playing mostly against Nids, Necrons, Slaanesh Chaos, and Blood Angels. Thus Assaulting is inevitable, either I'm going to do it to avoid a shooting war I'm going to loose, or I'll get assaulted. Either way I want to soften them up with some shooting first. List 1 40k only ten thousand years ago. Siggy and the support Praetorian go with the Templar in the Land Raider on assault missions. While the vets act as supped up Tac squads, taking and holding objectives while attacking targets of opportunity; mainly infantry (taking which ever rule is most appropriate to the current game.) Armour, and High Toughness will taken out by the Heavy Support and Rapier Batteries. The Dreadnought being all alone will go where he is most needed. Main question is Apothecary or Librarian? HQ 'Arcturus" - 230 -Counts as Sigismund - Rite of War: Pride of the Legion Legion Centurion - 95 - either Apothecary or Librarian Troops 5 man Templar Squad - 470 - 5 Combat Shields, Legion Vexilla, Champion 'Cai': Solarite Power Gauntlet, Land Raider Phobos 10 man Legion Tactical Veteran Squad - 260 - Plasmagun, Legion Vexilla, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Veteran Squad - 260 - Plasmagun, Legion Vexilla, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Veteran Squad - 260 - Plasmagun, Legion Vexilla, Rhino Elite Legion Dreadnough Talon - 125- Plasma Cannon Legion Rapier Weapons Battery - 120 - 2 Quad-Mortar Heavy Support Legion Heavy Support Squad - 160 - 5 Missile Launchers Total=1990 List 2 Not to different from List 1 save this one uses normal tacticals and has more Dreadnoughts. The Dreads will deploy close enough together to fulfill the Talon rule then after deployment will separate and move in support of the individual Tactical Squads. In essence becoming an AV12 version of a Tactical Support Squad. I've been doing some experimenting and surprisingly the supper melee squad popping in from a Drop Pod works just as well as a Land Raider. And RAW the Rite of War: Orbital Assault says the unit only needs to have access to a Deep Striking Vehicle to be taken . Again the question becomes Apothecary or Librarian. HQ 'Arcturus" - 230 -Counts as Sigismund - Rite of War: Orbital Assault Legion Centurion - 95 - either Apothecary or Librarian Troops 5 man Templar Squad - 255 - 5 Combat Shields, Legion Vexilla, Champion 'Cai': Solarite Power Gauntlet, Legion Drop Pod 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 245 - 10 CQW, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Power Weapon Combi-Plasma, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 245 - 10 CQW, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Power Weapon Combi-Plasma, Rhino 10 man Legion Tactical Squad - 245 - 10 CQW, Legion Vexilla, Sergeant: Artificer Armor, Power Weapon Combi-Plasma, Rhino Elite Legion Dreadnought Talon - 405- 3 Dreads, Plasma Cannon Legion Rapier Weapons Battery - 120 - 2 Quad-Mortar Heavy Support Legion Heavy Support Squad - 160 - 5 Missile Launchers Total=2000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Thing about Orbital Assault is that: while it states it must have a Deep Strike option to be included, they also have to be deployed within the vehicle that gives the Deep Strike or Deploy using the Rule. So sadly, you aren't dodging out of not taking pods for everything in Orbital Assault. Especially when you're going it for a Single Pod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Not going to lie that sucks. So that means back to the Land Raider. Also means dropping the Dreads entirely. Or the support Centoriam to make room for the Deathclaw. There is also the unthinkable. Put the Templar in a Rhino lol I kid I kid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Honestly, in list #2, Id drop the 3rd Tac Squad, take a Dreadclaw which leaves 135 pts free to do stuff or thereabouts. Quad Mortars all recently went up by +10 if you want shatter shells in book 6 so theres that. With the remaining ~100 just get more Templar and a 3rd Rapier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 Only ten points each? Think I can handle it. Don't feel to comfortable dropping an entire Tac Squad though. I like the extra objective securing bodies especially sense my Templar are on hunting duties. But I'm open to hearing why you consider it a good idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slips Posted February 25, 2016 Share Posted February 25, 2016 Scoring they are, its ~200 Points for 10 Bolter Bodies. For ~225 you can get 5 Terminators w/ 5 Combi-Weapons (plasma), Power Weapons and a Teleportation Transponder. Who are also scoring because of Implacable Advance. So for half the bodies, you trade 3+ T4 w/ Bolters for 2+/4++ (cataphractii) with Combi-Weapons (2 Plasma Gun Shots Each) and Power Weapons (Axes) with the Ability to Deepstrike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted February 25, 2016 Author Share Posted February 25, 2016 You do have a point there. That would be worth a try. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rion Posted March 26, 2017 Author Share Posted March 26, 2017 Some large Necromancy lol. Anyway I has retired my 30k list. At least until Rise of the Primarch came. I saw grandpapa Smurf and thought 'with the right work he would make a great Rogal Dorn model.' And I was right! So that being done I decided to bring the 30k list back to life. Now normally I'd be playing this against 40k lists. But now a friend of mine is making a legion space wolf list so there's ONE other legion in my meta lol! Just something to keep in mind. Also the Vigilator has one job. Scouting Termies with Primarch >] ++ The Age of Darkness (Legiones Astartes: Age of Darkness Army List) [1990pts] ++ + HQ + Legion Centurion [130pts]: Artificer Armour, Refractor Field, Solarite Power Gauntlet ·· Consul: Vigilator Rogal Dorn [605pts] ·· Legion Terminator Command Squad: 4x Legion Space Marine Chosen, Legion Standard Bearer, Plasma Blaster, 5x Power Fist, Tartaros Terminator Armour with Combi-bolter and Power Weapon + Elites + Legion Quad Launcher Support Battery [140pts]: 2x Legion Rapier, Shatter Shell + Troops + Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [245pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Resolve ·· Additional Wargear: Legion Vexilla, 2x Plasma gun ·· Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword/Combat Blade Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [245pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Resolve ·· Additional Wargear: Legion Vexilla, 2x Plasma gun ·· Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword/Combat Blade Legion Veteran Tactical Squad [245pts]: Legion Rhino Armoured Carrier, 9x Legion Veteran Space Marines, Veteran Tactics: Resolve ·· Additional Wargear: Legion Vexilla, 2x Plasma gun ·· Legion Veteran Sergeant: Artificer Armour, Bolt Pistol, Bolter, Chainsword/Combat Blade + Heavy Support + Legion Predator Strike Armoured Squadron [380pts]: Squadron Command Tank ·· Legion Predator Tank: Machine Spirit, MultiMelta, Predator Cannon ·· Legion Predator Tank: Machine Spirit, MultiMelta, Predator Cannon ·· Legion Predator Tank: Machine Spirit, MultiMelta, Predator Cannon + Legion + Legiones Astartes: VII: Imperial Fists, Loyalist Rite of War: Primarch's Chosen ++ Total: [1990pts] ++ Created with BattleScribe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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