How do you... tactical squad?

[Corrupted]

The last time I fielded a tac squad was in 3rd, maybe 4th edition, 6 man las/plas... So with no more bike/termy troops and having no great desire to buy, build and paint new models, it's time to dust of some tactical marines and get them on the table. So how do you do that? What's the prevailing wisdom when fielding tac marines?

 

5/6 man combi+special? in a rhino or RB?

10 man loaded in a rhino or pod?

Grav cannons pretty much act as a second special though for a hefty price tag, both in points and coin.

 

[VorpalPoolNoodle]

Generally speaking, I run 10 man powerfist, meltagun, plasma cannon in a rhino.

[Master Sheol]

It all depends if you are going to field a standard CAD or a demi company (inside or not a Lion's Blade detachment)...

In a standard CAD you Always have the option of the scout Squad to fill your compulsory slots...

In the demi company you need to take at least 3 tactical squads...

 

In any case if you are going to field a DA tactical squad the first thing to consider is the role you want to give them on the field...

In a transport to take the fight to the enemy or with a heavy weapon to support the devastators or maybe a full ten men squad to split in combat squads according to the needs?

[march10k]

I'm going with 7 men and a plasma gun...but only because 185 for ten men with plas/plas and power sword is points-inefficient.  5 is too few, 7 is marginal, 8 would be great for a budget squad.  Might I suggest squads of eight with plasma gun and power sword?  Plasma guns aren't great if you're planning an assault (then again, tactical squads aren't great if you're planning an assault!), but they are fantastic on BS4 overwatch!

[Darkangeldentist]

When I run them my tactical squads take to the table as follows;

 

• 10 man unit with vet' sarge wielding a powerfist plus a meltagun. Often these guys get a rhino with extra storm bolter
• 10 man unit with vet' sarge with power sword plus melta bombs plus a plasma cannon
• 6 man unit with plasma cannon

Tactical aren't amazing but they're respectable enough to take advantage of the situation when people ignore them over more intimidating threats. Powerfist unit tends to stay as one and tends to try and get some work done. The plasma and power sword unit tends to combat squad and objective squat. The last squad is pretty much just for the extra plasma cannon and again to jump an objective near my deployment zone. The third unit doesn't always make it in but this what my troop selection for greenwing list has been since Dark vengeance arrived.

[IndigoJack]

The only time I really see me running tacticals over scouts is when I'm running lion's blade. My general setup is as follows; 5man unit with meltagun, combi-melta, meltabombs all in a drop pod. I've run them a lot this way in the past and they get the job done pretty well. They are by no means a devastating unit, but if occasionally one guy survives and scores me an objective to win me the game, I'm not complaining.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Before the Codex it would be 10 man, combi plasma/melta, plasma, missile/lascannon. After Codex, Grav will be thrown to the mix.

[Berzul]

I run this three squads:

 

1) 9 man squad with a Melta Gun and a Vet. Sgt. with Powerfist and Combi Melta. They go with a Level 2 Librarian with Interromancy, which has an Auspex and Digital Weapons (maybe even the Shroud of Heroes for survivability). I load them in a Drop Pod with no upgrades.

2) 10 Man squad with a Plasma Gun and a Heavy Bolter, and a Sgt. with Bolt Pistol and Combi Plasma. I load them in a Rhino with Extra Armor and a second Storm Bolter.

3) 5 Man squad, no upgrades. I load them in a Razorback with a Twin Linked Lascannon. No additional upgrades.

 

Squad 1 is best for tying up the enemy on the first turn. Melta+Combimelta+Auspex gives a quick solid punch against heavier stuff. Then the squad size and the Librarian's Lds makes them tough to rout. The drop pod seals off easy passage to my main army, if placed right. Interromancy has Worked GREAT for me in keeping the enemy unable to aim a shot, and forcing them to melee, in which the Libby can take challenges with FnP and 2 wounds while the vet sgt deals some S8 AP2 damage.

 

Squad 2 is backup, with plasma and heavy bolter from the hatch and dual storm bolters. If they get popped open, its still a strong squad; hard to take out. They can make good job of taking objectives and moving where needed.

 

Squad 3 holds the line with some stronger firepower, and the ability to drop a 5 man squad on a neglected objective near the end of the game.

 

This squads have worked out WONDERS for me in my last few games, specially since Interromanco came along (before I used divination).

 

Not a cheap group of squads, but worth the points if you ask me.

[Berzul]

If points allow, ill give the Rhino Sgt. the Veteran upgrade for the Ld.

 

If points are scarce Ill take out the extra armor and second storm bolter, the vet upgrades and the powerfist. Trade it for a meltabomb

[WellSpokenMan]

5 in a pod with a Grav-cannon is how I plan on running them, with a couple of extra bodies if I have the points. 

[Brother Turok]

I have been tearing my marines apart and remodeling them... grav is just too good. Ap2 like plasma but higher rof like a heavy bolter!

 

My squads are also striped down to save points where it doesn't matter (cc weapons on sarg).

 

Squad 1 - 5 man combi melta, melta, mb - tllc razorback

Squad 2 - combi grav, grav, grav cannon in rhino

squad 3 - same as squad 2

 

Dark angels are very shooty (you want to be assaulted so you get a second shooting phase with overwatch). I have found that grav kills most everything with ease. They are salvo and can shoot out of the rhinos too. This gives a moving squad 7 ap2 shots that don't get hot and will usually wound on either a 3 or a 4. If stationary they can unleash 7-14 bolter shots and 11 grav shots!

 

If taking two detachments, I would add a flamethrower squad in a tllc razorback as well as a second melta razorback.

 

This gives you anti monstrous creature squads, anti marine squads, anti jetbike squads, and lots of tllc and melta for vehicles.

[Frater Cornelius]

That is one thing that really infuriates me. I may be in the minority, but I like Tactical Marines and I like them to be the backbone of my field presence. However, DA do not do Tacticals very well. Ultramarines do it far better (you can not imagine the gap, you really can not). It feels a bit sad to have to play a more generic book to get what I like. However, I am not seeing much use for DA Tacs over UM Tacs apart from holding objectives and getting more bodies. They are not really a threat and if the enemy goes after your Black Knights, the Tacs can not make it count afterwards.

 

Having said all that, I usually run my Tacs like this:

10 man - Melta, Combi-Melta, Grav Cannon in Drop Pod, Combat Squads (Meltas and Grav separately). Two sets and third empty pod.

 

Yes, I am bitter.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Yet, despite not being as cool as the UM counterparts, now our tactical marines are far better then they ever were.

[WellSpokenMan]

Nobody's tacticals are going to be as good as the Mary Sue Smurfs.  Ever.  That being said, our tacs are still improved greatly with the changes to Grim Resolve and the addition of Grav-cannons and Fire Discipline.   Drop them on an objective and they should hold it.  You can pretty much put money on any Dark Angels unit that we share with Space Marines being equivalent at best.  That's why I don't like to spend much on them. 

[Frater Cornelius]

Aye, the gap closed. The Grav Cannon and better Overwatch, especially with the Cannon, is very good now. I just feel that their offensive power is lacking due to lack of re-rolls. The thing I have noticed when playing Green + Black was that people knew that Black was unkillable, so they always went for Green and killed them rather swiftly while Black was perma-jinking, thus robbing me of my offensive potential.

I wonder, if there are more optimal ways of playing DA Tacs that synergize with the army and play to the strength of the book. I am pretty set with my Podding ways, but there are many tactics that remain unexplored for me.

[Flam]

I auto include a drop pod with a meltagun/combi-melta tactical squad in all my lists.  I keep the points low, but if I can afford the extra bodies, they are usually worth it especially if they can combat squad.  They do enough damage most of the time and are a general nuisance that cannot be ignored, especially since our pods are objsec.  They also buy valuable time for the rest of my forces.  I do hate the fact that I am sending super soldiers to what is most likely their deaths, but it has usually been worth it.  With the new codex, I would assume they would be even better now if they managed to survive the shooting phase.

[WellSpokenMan]

I auto include a drop pod with a meltagun/combi-melta tactical squad in all my lists. I keep the points low, but if I can afford the extra bodies, they are usually worth it especially if they can combat squad. They do enough damage most of the time and are a general nuisance that cannot be ignored, especially since our pods are objsec. They also buy valuable time for the rest of my forces. I do hate the fact that I am sending super soldiers to what is most likely their deaths, but it has usually been worth it. With the new codex, I would assume they would be even better now if they managed to survive the shooting phase.

Don't feel bad. The moment they join the chapter their fate is sealed. They will die in service to the emperor, only the timing is in question.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

Ravenwing are supposed to be the glory hogs. Tacticals do the heavy work, RW cleans up. ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

More like Tacticals get killed because RW are tougher, thus only RW are left to take the glory :P

[Chaplain Lucifer]

And yet the tactical still do their job. Obsec, diverting fire away from RW, supporting with bolter and heavy weapons.

I don't even remember games that tacticals survive intact or largely intact and the other elements don't, even in other codexes /editions. They always took the brunt of the fighting and their casualties were always the highest, no matter the chapter, no matter the codex, no matter the edition. Maybe because they are the easy target, the cannon fodder, the footsloggers, but because they die, others live and the harder they sell their lives, the better the other elements do thier job.

[Frater Cornelius]

I do remember one. It was... almost every bloody game with UM because nothing was left standing that could hurt Tacs :D

 

On a less bitter note, I sometimes have very cold dice. You could draw a graph and see regularity in there. Re-rolls mean a lot to me and sadly, DA do not have that outside of Prescience.

[Chaplain Lucifer]

My dice are so cold that once upon a time I rapid fired a full tactical squad (plasmagun, plasma cannon and combi plasma) at a Necron squad and the whole Necron squad was still there standing and I had 3 marines less after the dust settled.

[Flam]

I totally agree with Chaplain Lucifer.

If they are focused on, they provide time for other elements to do their jobs.

If they are ignored, they cause havoc in the back lines.

 

I've actually had a combat squaded drop pod tacticals pop a looted wagon (first blood), make a squad of lootas and grots run off the board and go into close combat with those grot manned cannons all in one game (3 turns) or pop a predator and removed a full tactical squad by turn 3 before getting wiped.

 

They have also sat next to an annihilation barge trying to take down its shields for 3 turns while holding a key position before being removed or when a squad of boyz just couldn't make the charge, and they backed up and shot for 2 turns before getting caught.

 

 

I have yet to play a game using our new strikeforce, but I am kitting the other two tactical squads to grab mid field objectives and hold the line for the devs/serve as a mini dev squad.  Something like just a plasma gun or with just a plasma cannon.  I like to keep things simple and if there are points left, I would rather use the extra points on more bodies over more wargear or save the points for kitting out ravenwing.  I also rarely mix heavy weapons with special weapons, because I find it feels like you are wasting points every time you move unless you have a transport.

[Frater Cornelius]

I somehow get the feeling that Plasma is the way I would want to go with DA though. Plasma + Combi-Plasma + Grav Cannon. The higher rate of fire will make a difference and will compensate nicely for a lack of re-rolls. If the meta moves to counter alpha strike, then you will not find many expensive transports and Plasma will do nicely.

[WellSpokenMan]

I somehow get the feeling that Plasma is the way I would want to go with DA though. Plasma + Combi-Plasma + Grav Cannon. The higher rate of fire will make a difference and will compensate nicely for a lack of re-rolls. If the meta moves to counter alpha strike, then you will not find many expensive transports and Plasma will do nicely.

You might be right when/if the meta shifts, but the last few codexes have not been kind to units that would fear Plasma more than Grav.  The Eldar codex completely obliterated my IG build and Skyhammer swept the remains into the dustbin.  I've heard similar complaints from Ork players.  This may change when those books get updated, but until then Grav will probably be king.