knife&fork Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I fail to see how anything changed regarding terminators? They are still way overpriced and despite being 25 pts more than C:SM our non LC termies are more useful than theirs thanks to our charge bonuses. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122022 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I fail to see how anything changed regarding terminators? They are still way overpriced and despite being 25 pts more than C:SM our non LC termies are more useful than theirs thanks to our charge bonuses. This changed. And it makes buying the Terminator Box a lot less meaningful as a result. They released it because it was the perfect time to sell you some Terminators. Nobody will buy them now, but they already sold enough, probably. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122027 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 My point was that they weren't good when our codex came out, and they still aren't. 25 pt reduction on the least popular configurations isn't enough to make them anything close to good. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122032 Share on other sites More sharing options...
d@n Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 the blood angel tac squad and the new devastator squad are re sculpts using the tactical marine kit from 2013 as a template. gw probably has a terminator template kit, that they will use for all the main chapter terminator kits in the future and just decided to arbitrarily release the blood angel version as it was easier than developing a new kit with new rules and they couldn't just release one box and a few clam packs, along with the codex. it was just a case of stick some blood angel iconography on the template and design a nice box. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Aye, Terminators are in such a weird place, especially dakka ones, and I doubt we'll see them changed in a long while :( Honestly just two heavy weapons in 5 man and 4 in 10 would be enough. Devs can have 4 at 5, and technically a terminator is proficient in all forms of combat. I'd take ten terminators if I could have 4AC or 4CSL, that's rad! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122095 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 My point was that they weren't good when our codex came out, and they still aren't. 25 pt reduction on the least popular configurations isn't enough to make them anything close to good. And I never argued they were released at a point where they made a lot of sense in the first place; they were easy to make, so were released at a time when GW knew they would be an EVEN HARDER SELL later on. In other words, it was a bad unit when released but it's now even worse. It was cash in on an easy to produce kit that turned out to be a bait and switch for the consumer. I was lucky enough to own enough Space Hulk terminators to not get baited with it, but I feel for the people who did. The whole BA Codex and kits released for 7E were bait and switch. GW basically trolled us all. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122106 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 How is it worse? If you want Assault Terminators for Blood Angels you'll buy them regardless; the cost of them in another Faction's Codex has no bearing. Whilst we're on the subject, we all know you don't approve of what GW does so can we drop the rhetoric now? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122113 Share on other sites More sharing options...
appiah4 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 How is it worse? If you want Assault Terminators for Blood Angels you'll buy them regardless; the cost of them in another Faction's Codex has no bearing. Whilst we're on the subject, we all know you don't approve of what GW does so can we drop the rhetoric now? Surely you jest? My Terminator unis are relatively worse than another faction's, and that makes me relatively less willing to field them against the other faction because I would be willingly handicapping myself - I would much rather buy and field something that is points-wise on a similar level of competitiveness. Does that even require explaining? They marketed the shiny new kit to BA players when it was comparable to other factions' (bait) and then they just made the other faction's same unit better (switch). I really fail to see how you can disagree with the argument here. As for the rhetoric remark - please spare me and let the mods do their modding. My disapproval of GW management has nothing to do with my ideas about why they released the Terminator Kit when they did. It's as clear as sunshine. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122141 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I might be in a minority here as I generally play fluff / narrative games, but I really like the Terminator models. We can argue back and forth about point redundancies and min/max'ing the loadout, but the bottom line (for me at least) it the models look totally bad ass and I had a great time painting them. I mean, just look at this guy: Is he going to win me any tounements? Nope. But I'll never begrudge paying thirty odd quid for the unit, epecially when someone comes up to the table when I'm playing and goes "Duuuuuue! That guy looks boss!" Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122271 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 http://i279.photobucket.com/albums/kk141/Mechxen/Blood%20Angels/1st%20Company/4th%20Squad/DSCN1679_zpslgfuidci.jpg They could be brothers. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122301 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 How do you get the pictures so nice and big? Everytime I put up pics from my gallerly they look so wimpy and small. >_< Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122314 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Go to the image in teh gallery, click on options at the top right, copy the IMG code, then paste it into the post Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122320 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Commander Scrymgeour Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 the above posters have just shown me exactly why they released that kit! awesome. Why would I care that codex marines are cheaper or whatever, when they have to use sucky plain models and we can use something as awesome as that. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122323 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 13, 2015 Author Share Posted July 13, 2015 Edited original post to stop any further disruption. Can agree, the mini's do look good! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4122519 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Are our assault terminators really that much worse than other chapters? Our TH/SS terminators cost the same points as the other chapters. Our LC assault termies do cost more points, but they get to hit at S5, Init 5 on the charge versus those other chapters that are left hitting on S4, Init 4. In a typical unit, you'll have what...three TH/SS models and two LC models? That means we're paying 10 points more for our squad, but we get the initiaitive/strength bonus on our LC models. All in all, not horrible. As far as the new kit is concerned, put me in the camp with those people who love it. Actually, I just ran out and bought one two days ago when my FLGS ran a 30% off sale. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123799 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 In a typical unit, you'll have what...three TH/SS models and two LC models? That means we're paying 10 points more for our squad, but we get the initiaitive/strength bonus on our LC models. All in all, not horrible. Thats a great way of looking at it. In fact, let go a step further: If our terminators cost exactly the same as the C:SM one do now, and we had the option to pay 10 points for +1Initative and +1 Strength on the charge, it would (at least for me) be considered an Auto-include. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 In a typical unit, you'll have what...three TH/SS models and two LC models? That means we're paying 10 points more for our squad, but we get the initiaitive/strength bonus on our LC models. All in all, not horrible. Thats a great way of looking at it. In fact, let go a step further: If our terminators cost exactly the same as the C:SM one do now, and we had the option to pay 10 points for +1Initative and +1 Strength on the charge, it would (at least for me) be considered an Auto-include. Agreed, I was thinking the exact same thing. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123863 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Vanilla marines don't pay extra for their chapter tactics. Why would we have to pay for ours? Whitescars get hit and run on their assault terminators for example which is amazing. And we don't get +1 Initiative for free either since you have to take BSF and lose obj secured. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123872 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Vanilla marines don't pay extra for their chapter tactics. Why would we have to pay for ours? Whitescars get hit and run on their assault terminators for example which is amazing. And we don't get +1 Initiative for free either since you have to take BSF and lose obj secured. I almost exclusivly take BSF anyway, so I just take it as a given. My point is I like Blood Angels, I like our rules, I like our models and I'mma keep using my assault termies even if the big bad internet tells me I may aswell deep fry my hands. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123876 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Same here. I love my army. http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk37/jacksonseverimben/2015-05-28%2000.55.06_zps46edhvcd.jpg But I don't need the internet to tell me that my army got the short end of the stick. Which is a shame. I still love the idea of terminators though I never field them since they are 225 points of fire magnets these days. http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk37/jacksonseverimben/Blood%20Angels/2015-01-16011623_zpsc2e7eac3.jpg Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123931 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does it matter that the picture you posted above costs the same in C:SM? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123937 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does it matter that the picture you posted above costs the same in C:SM? Oh don't get me wrong I think terminators suck either way. I was just arguing that us having better assault rules shouldn't cause a price increase in units we share with vanilla space marines since they get bonuses as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4123952 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does it matter that the picture you posted above costs the same in C:SM? Oh don't get me wrong I think terminators suck either way. I was just arguing that us having better assault rules shouldn't cause a price increase in units we share with vanilla space marines since they get bonuses as well. It's all perspective. Youre vexed becuase we got a points increase. From this perspective, we got worse. I'm indifferent becuase the SM got a points decrease. From this perpective, we did not change; another army got better. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4124002 Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrunTeufel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Does it matter that the picture you posted above costs the same in C:SM? Oh don't get me wrong I think terminators suck either way. I was just arguing that us having better assault rules shouldn't cause a price increase in units we share with vanilla space marines since they get bonuses as well. It's all perspective. Youre vexed becuase we got a points increase. From this perspective, we got worse. I'm indifferent becuase the SM got a points decrease. From this perpective, we did not change; another army got better. Nah, we got worse because newer 7th edition armies is in a whole other level right now. Nothing to do with terminators. Units being a bit more expensive is just the icing on the cake really. But like I said, this is not what were talking about earlier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4124020 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 S9 on TH makes us just that more reliable against the tough targets Assault Termies are meant to crack. Even wounding Wraith Knights becomes a 3+. I'm an advocate of putting an Inquisitor with Rad Grenades, Frag Grenades etc with them if you're on claws (or even hammers). Cast hammer hand, and watch as you're S6 Assault Termies Shred and ID T3 Marines/Crons, or with hammers you start instant deathing T6 and below (due to them being 5 from rad). The only problem is then you need to use an Inquisitor of course... Sadly only Ordo Xenos so no Termie armour for him. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/310906-assault-terminators-kit-why/page/2/#findComment-4126023 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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