Syphid Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 I've been reading the codex for the past few days and I just noticed something I haven't seen picked up on anywhere else. The Hammer of Caliban formation gives all units in the formation Monster Hunter and Tank Hunters, including the Techmarine. Because the Techmarine is an Independent Character he can join other units, giving them Monster and Tank Hunter as well. You could deploy a unit of Deathwing, or a dismounted Assault squad or Veteran squad, Command Squad or even a Devastator Squad with the Techmarine for added bonuses against vehicles and monstrous creatures. Or he could jump out of the raider and man a quad gun for BS5 Monster/Tank Hunter Skyfire goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 But if you leave him in then the raider becomes much more resillient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 9, 2015 Share Posted July 9, 2015 Youd still need to start him in the landraider, so there would be a little shuffling somewhere midgame. This formation is certainly on my radar, but it's certainly a "main event" type of formation due to its cost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Running the LR as a "Tank" for other tanks is a decent idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt_Reaper Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Running the LR as a "Tank" for other tanks is a decent idea. Yo Dawg...I heard you like tanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aura_enchanted Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 The formation would be a lot better if you could use forgeworld tanks. A Helios raider or an ares with bs 5, tank hunter paired with some predators would be the ultimate troop carrier smasher. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Is the Ares still even legal? I don't know, I'm pretty tempted by the idea of an ObSec Dev squad with Tank/Monster hunter, 4 ML's with Flakk, in 3+ cover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elios Harg Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Even if the Ares are still legal, it had no transport capacity. It would have been glorious to put in a Hammer with 3 vindicators though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Cornelius Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 You can embark a squad with the TM inside the LR, even though that means using the Redeemer. They can then charge out of it and MH/TH it up. Definitely an interesting find. This Formation is also on my radar. Well, either this or the WHW Command Tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Runner Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Or what about the Land Raider Achilles? Not sure if that would work in this formation (not got the book to hand) but could be messy!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother dean Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 The TechMarine doesnt HAVE to be embarked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 The TechMarine doesnt HAVE to be embarked... He just needs to start the game embarked, and disembark in your first movement phase if needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 This is cool, but I can't think of a cost effective way to use it. 3 AC Preds and a LR are 540 points and you have the added cost of the devs. The best use for this I can come up with is in a Guard list. Setting this formation, a Paskisher, and a blob of soon to be Tankl/Monster Hunters on the table will make a lot of lists cry. I'm thinking something along the lines of Librarian with Eye of the Unseen, a couple units of Scouts, and Azrael. Azzie, the Libby, and the Techmarine all go in a blob giving it a 4++, Fearless, Preffered Enemy, Tank/Monster Hunter, Ld 10 for orders, and with Rapid Maneuver, the ability to run and shoot every turn and move at least 10" (with the "Forwards for the Emperor" order) Add in a Wyvern battery and Pask and it should be brutal. Have the Libby give out Twin Linked or Rending for added hilarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cactus Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think the Hammer of Caliban will really shine in Apocalypse games where you want to put a lot of lascannon hits on something. In most other situations it feels like overkill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't have the codex handy so I can't remember if the tank unit has to be 3 strong, but Whirlwinds are cheap and useful. They already have shred if you take three of them, but Tank Hunters on Ordnance Barrage weapons could wreak havoc against light vehicles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I don't have the codex handy so I can't remember if the tank unit has to be 3 strong, but Whirlwinds are cheap and useful. They already have shred if you take three of them, but Tank Hunters on Ordnance Barrage weapons could wreak havoc against light vehicles. Whoever you bring has to be 3 strong. I think this formation is great gor a greenwing cad/lions blade where you ditch transports and invest those points into your hammer. Run the tacs in cover behind the tanks to block LOS and let your opponent deal with the landraider up front. You can kit them out for AV and stick the devs inside with Heavy Flamers for a nice promethium bath! I need to get 1 more vindicator, predator and whirlwind (damn you GW) to make this possible. I dont see myself using the whirlwinds since it works against the landraider and what a landraider does. The Vindicators with monster/tank hunter sounds pretty mean though since they are already ordnance. Expensive, but mean. Theres expensive, and then theres EXPENSIVE. The HOC is one of those formations that I think will do serious damage despite its cost, dont forget that it's not just killpower that can justify a unit. Theres value in a unit that can draw fire, survive and increase the longevity of other, weaker units that would otherwise perish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_WarM Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I think the Hammer of Caliban will really shine in Apocalypse games where you want to put a lot of lascannon hits on something. In most other situations it feels like overkill. If you take three predators in a squadron then they already have tank and monster hunter. It's useful if you take only one. I'd take three vindicators or three whirlwinds. Imagine an apocalyptic blast with tank/monster hunter. That's expensive but devastating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkAngeal Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 No, they only have the hunters while their unit is 3 strong. This formation gives it to them for the whole battle, and the land raider, and the tech marine. No matter what gets destroyed, they keep the rule with this formation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DA_WarM Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 But you are better taking a squadron that gives something else than monster/tank hunter. A whirlwind squadron gives shred. So, if you take a whirlwind squadron in a Hammer of Caliban, your whirlwinds would have both hunter and shred. Now that is powerful. If you take 3 preds, that's a waste of a good rule because that squadron already comes with hunter. No, they only have the hunters while their unit is 3 strong. This formation gives it to them for the whole battle, and the land raider, and the tech marine. No matter what gets destroyed, they keep the rule with this formation I agree with you but while you still have a 3-strong pred unit the rule is useless for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Monster Hunter and Shred are redundant and a Str 5 Barrage weapon with Tank Hunter isn't particularly scary either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syphid Posted July 10, 2015 Author Share Posted July 10, 2015 Monster Hunter and Shred are redundant and a Str 5 Barrage weapon with Tank Hunter isn't particularly scary either. Whirlwind can be fired directly and is Ordnance, no? 3 Str 5 Large Blasts that roll 2d6-pick-the-highest with rerolls against transport heavy armies like Dark Eldar seems not bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormxlr Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 Monster Hunter and Shred are redundant and a Str 5 Barrage weapon with Tank Hunter isn't particularly scary either. MH doesnt work on anything but Monstrous Creatures though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WellSpokenMan Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I guess I am already anticipating Razorback spam, even if I haven't seen it yet. I'd have to crunch some numbers before spending the points on it.I do find the formation interesting, I just can't justify the costs, both $$ and points, of fielding it yet. Monster Hunter and Shred are redundant and a Str 5 Barrage weapon with Tank Hunter isn't particularly scary either. MH doesnt work on anything but Monstrous Creatures though. You have to take 3 Whirlwinds anyway, so you already have Shred. Adding Monster Hunter doesn't do anything for you. I'd lean more towards the 3 AC Preds for only 30 points more. Better armor, no minimum range, and it shares targets better with the LR. What the Whirlwind does can be done better by allying in some Guard Wyverns, imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SvenONE Posted July 10, 2015 Share Posted July 10, 2015 I guess I am already anticipating Razorback spam, even if I haven't seen it yet. I'd have to crunch some numbers before spending the points on it. I do find the formation interesting, I just can't justify the costs, both $$ and points, of fielding it yet. Well I think that the beauty of this formation is that for a lot of veteran DA players this formation is probably in a case somewhere. I must admit though I am still a vindicator short (only have 2) and 2 preds and whirlwinds short. Other than maybe BA players not sure who would have 3 preds laying around. But still, I think it's a solid formation, even if the DWV rule is gone along with dozer blades. MH and TH rules fill a big gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaplain Killmer Posted July 28, 2015 Share Posted July 28, 2015 The cool thing about that is that it works nice with the units of tanks. So you get first the bonus for the 3 tanks. Then add the LR and get more goodies. If you get mental then you can upgrade more and go for the 5 tanks in the apocalypse setting so no tank wasted and a good excuse to buy a 6th for double formation... Must not buy more tanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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