TheMightyGabriel Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Hi all, I recently purchased my first Scout Squad - I love the models. Not only that, but I feel like they have a unique role which no other unit can fulfill in a BA army. Sniping + camocloaks make them quite annoying to deal with for any army. I have yet to see their real effectiveness though. Concerning troop choices, I always felt like BA options were both was pretty weak as the furious charge rule is very situational for both Tactical and Scout squads. Yet scouts are rather cheap and snipers can be so very annoying vs low Leadership armies. However, vs a Decurion list (which my good friend plays exclusively), aren't they a waste of points? I hardly see their use except for holding objectives and gaining a bit of "map control". My question is therefore the following: Are BA scouts better used as cheap melee units with bolt pistols + equipped sergent, or as unique role fulfiller of snipers? Why and when should I go for them instead of Tacticals? Additionally, when should I look into putting them in a Land Speeder?Thank you in advance for the answers :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadDice0809 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 If your friend is using exclusively Decurion against your pure BA, he is kind of a prick. But lets move past that. Againt Decurion your Scouts have one advantage- they are a cheap way to fill Troop Requirements. Thats it. As you noted Sniper Scouts will do next to zero damage. CC Scouts, if they survive the barrage of Necron fire charging in, if by some miracle the Wraiths haven't ripped them to shreds yet, most likely do a few causulties, get tar pitted, THEN get ripped to shreds by Wraiths or Lychguard. The snipers can, as you noted, hold an objective and maybe plink off a wound or two. All game. One or two wounds. ANYWHOOZER... Scouts are a cheap way to allow you to get more Death Company/ Sanguinary Guard/ Stormravens/ Vindicators that have a better chance of laying the hurt down on the undying. By the way, BA do NOT get access to the Landspeeder Storm except via Allies. That is because GW was game savy enough to know no one in their right mind would ever take Tacticals over cheap Furious Charging Scouts with a Fast Open Top Transport, and they had a new BA Tactical Sprue to sell. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4121855 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I have painted up 30 close combat scouts and have been running them all in a few games. What type of loadout you use on them is not that important really since their main purpose is to hold objectives. The disadvantage with sniper scouts is they are less flexible when outflanking, playing vs drop pod lists or missions like the relic where you need to move them around more. The good thing with close combat scouts is they limit enemies movement around the table because they are very efficient for the points for the times you do get the charge off. The drawback for me in games has been playing them badly as it's easy to make mistakes and play them too passive or aggresive. Knowing when to infiltrate, outflank or just start them in DZ is very important and often difficult to assess, atleast from my experience. Often you will be going to ground with them when they are shot at for the 3+ (2+ with camo cloak) cover save, so they won't be doing much dmg. I noticed vs many lists they flatout veichles/bikes on objectives in maelstrom to grab a point, or in eternal war they will do the same at turn 5. Having close combat scouts in these spots will be more efficent since 5 scouts can easly deal with a rear armor 10 tanks or jetbikes moving on objectives. Though i have seen bs3 sniper scouts (before SM buff) do good things as well. Overall bolter scouts are perhaps the strongest, but BA does not synergize with them at all, so thats why i'd lean towards utilizing the furious charge "chapter tactic". Though in essence they are mostly a utility unit for holding objectives. I dont really think there is a clear wrong or right choice, but i wouldt run more then 5 or 10 snipers max. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4121953 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Until our scouts are updated to C:SM standard (or at least given the land speeder storm) the only ones worth taking are pistols + knife in some kind of assault vehicle. I'd say either cheap 5-man in a raven for late game objective grabs or full 10-man in raven or land raider with a character to actually kill things. The only thing sniper scouts have going for them is a buffer for the heavy bolter with hellfire shells. That thing can actually do some damage! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4121967 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We had a thread not long before the new SM Codex dropped about how awesome our scouts are. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308742-cc-scouts-great-troop-choice/?hl=%2Bscouts Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122070 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 We had a thread not long before the new SM Codex dropped about how awesome our scouts are. http://www.bolterandchainsword.com/topic/308742-cc-scouts-great-troop-choice/?hl=%2Bscouts And they still are! WS3 - 4 doesnt make too much of a difference, you still hit marines on a 4+, but you get to go first, to hopefully thin the return attacks. Guardsmen/tau you'll beat anyway, dedicated combat squads you'll lose against anyway! The biggest hit is the BS4 on snipers... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122107 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKen60 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well I got ask and please understand I have played for awhile. A scout squad of 10 with Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher was what I was planning to get next as my next purchase. If I am getting this right Bolter, BP and Knives are better. So what about the hvy weapon? Take none? And kit out the Sgt. instead? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122189 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well I got ask and please understand I have played for awhile. A scout squad of 10 with Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher was what I was planning to get next as my next purchase. If I am getting this right Bolter, BP and Knives are better. So what about the hvy weapon? Take none? And kit out the Sgt. instead? You should really consider the heavy bolter to go with the snipers. With hellfire (remeber when we could take these on every heavy bolter?) you can target high T enemies, often with good saves, which incidentally is the only place the snipers do well. Being a blast it also suffers a lot less from the BS3 compared to the launcher. For the BP and CCW scouts it really depends on where you're going to put them. If they are to be joined by some kind of killy character then you obviously kitting the sergeant is less of a priority. Heavy weapon is not needed, better to use those points elsewhere. A power sword on the sarge and maybe a grav pistol is what I would run. Melta bomb if you think they will get to use it. Bolter scouts can do with a combi-weapon on the sarge and heavy weapon of choice. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122259 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKen60 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Well I got ask and please understand I have played for awhile. A scout squad of 10 with Sniper Rifles, Missile Launcher was what I was planning to get next as my next purchase. If I am getting this right Bolter, BP and Knives are better. So what about the hvy weapon? Take none? And kit out the Sgt. instead? You should really consider the heavy bolter to go with the snipers. With hellfire (remeber when we could take these on every heavy bolter?) you can target high T enemies, often with good saves, which incidentally is the only place the snipers do well. Being a blast it also suffers a lot less from the BS3 compared to the launcher. For the BP and CCW scouts it really depends on where you're going to put them. If they are to be joined by some kind of killy character then you obviously kitting the sergeant is less of a priority. Heavy weapon is not needed, better to use those points elsewhere. A power sword on the sarge and maybe a grav pistol is what I would run. Melta bomb if you think they will get to use it. Bolter scouts can do with a combi-weapon on the sarge and heavy weapon of choice. Okay thanks i just did not want to invest cash into a squad I would not play/use. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122324 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenith Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Okay thanks i just did not want to invest cash into a squad I would not play/use. Remember, you can still use them even if they suck! A 5man squad of scouts with rifles is always useful to camp an objective, or plink away at a character or MC to take some wounds off it before you charge. EDIT: 'use', not 'sue'... Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122347 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChaosKen60 Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 Okay thanks i just did not want to invest cash into a squad I would not play/use. Remember, you can still sue them even if they suck! A 5man squad of scouts with rifles is always useful to camp an objective, or plink away at a character or MC to take some wounds off it before you charge. Okay thanks Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tjr Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 I absolutely love my scouts. I have 2x5 dudes with shanks and they've taken SO many objectives points or speed bumped other units more times than I can count. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
knife&fork Posted July 13, 2015 Share Posted July 13, 2015 For the people who like them: Do you play mostly maelstrom or eternal war type missions? I play maelstrom almost exclusively and I think they are somewhat of a liability. Very easy kills. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4122797 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 How to make the Blood Angels Scouts better ? just give them (officialy in the codex) the Land Speeder Storm, with that, they will be very fun unit to play with i think. (Of course the scouts are already good, but with the Land Speeder Storm, they will have a lot of option given to them, nothing more, nothing less.) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123839 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 How to make the Blood Angels Scouts better ? just give them (officialy in the codex) the Land Speeder Storm, with that, they will be very fun unit to play with i think. (Of course the scouts are already good, but with the Land Speeder Storm, they will have a lot of option given to them, nothing more, nothing less.) But Blood Angels don't have land speeder storms. T_T Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 How to make the Blood Angels Scouts better ? just give them (officialy in the codex) the Land Speeder Storm, with that, they will be very fun unit to play with i think. (Of course the scouts are already good, but with the Land Speeder Storm, they will have a lot of option given to them, nothing more, nothing less.) But Blood Angels don't have land speeder storms. T_T That's what is said, they just need it, nothing more, nothing less =) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123866 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bukimimaru Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 How to make the Blood Angels Scouts better ? just give them (officialy in the codex) the Land Speeder Storm, with that, they will be very fun unit to play with i think. (Of course the scouts are already good, but with the Land Speeder Storm, they will have a lot of option given to them, nothing more, nothing less.) But Blood Angels don't have land speeder storms. T_T That's what is said, they just need it, nothing more, nothing less =) Ah I see, I misunderstood. Man, I really wish we had Scouty Landspeeders. -_- Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123888 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Purchase C:SM Take a CAD, filling up the FA slots with LSS Deploy BA Scouts inside ???? Profit Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123892 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red-beard Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Sniper scouts always underwhelm in my games. Bolter scouts are OK. If I were building a new BA scout unit, I would likely model them with pistol/CCW. Then I'd use them for ablative wounds in a delivery unit for a CC model such as Meph or Seth. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123902 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remtek Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 You loose scout and infiltrate since it's not a dedicated transport :( Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123903 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jolemai Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 You loose scout and infiltrate since it's not a dedicated transport Ah yes. Pity. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123905 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frater Antodeniel Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 You loose scout and infiltrate since it's not a dedicated transport Ah yes. Pity. Mwahahhahaha So you see it, do you feel it the power of the strategists mind !!! (Revenge Joke appart, it would really make sense to have Land Speeder Storm in our codex) =). I should have been the one to wrote it , but i had forgotten all this for it was so logic to me ><. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123958 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 For the people who like them: Do you play mostly maelstrom or eternal war type missions? I play maelstrom almost exclusively and I think they are somewhat of a liability. Very easy kills. I play both Maelstrom and Eternal War missions quite regularly and never regret taking Scouts. Although this doesn't mean they always perform particularly well. As alluded to earlier the hard part with Scouts is trying to understand how to play them. Should I infiltrate or outflank, play aggressively or defensively etc. I run BP/CCW scouts, although they are magnetised to be either shotgun or bolter too. In terms of upgrades I leave them fairly naked, the only option worth taking is Melta bombs, a squad turning up in someone's back field usually need dealing with. Just think of scouts as units that can bully objective campers, take the heat off other units, and being a unit you can discard to tie up something particularly shooty. D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4123990 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grazcruzk Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Pistol/cc/cloak with Cypher in there. Sounds fun to me! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4129182 Share on other sites More sharing options...
evildrcheese Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 Cypher is a solid option for Scouts as he synergises well with them, my only problem is Cypher is quite pointy and if you're going to add him to a squad, you should really make it a 10 man squad then you're looking a 300 points on a buffed scout squad...at that outlay wouldn't DC be better?... D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/311073-thoughts-on-scouts/#findComment-4129368 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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